shall possess their diminished reservation independent of all other lands of the Chippewa tribe of Indians and shall be entitled to all allotments thereunder of 160 acres each of either agricultural or pine lands, the different class of lands to be apportioned as may be equitable and just among the allottees."

Mr. BALLINGER. My answer is that the Red Lake Indians were only one band. They had only a limited interest in the Red Lake Reservation, and they could not acquire title by agreeing with themselves that they should own the reservation absolutely."

The CHAIRMAN. Your contention would be that this agreement is not valid on account of all the Chippewas not being considered in it. Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir. And in addition, Mr. Snyder, that law that you hold in your hand provides for allotments, but no allotments were made.

The CHAIRMAN. It says that allotments may be made.

Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. RHODES. I do not have that before me, but does that purport to be an agreement?

The CHAIRMAN. This is an agreement with the Chippewa Indians for the sale of lands ceded.

Mr. RHODES. Does it purport to be an agreement with all the Chippewa Indians or just the Red Lake band?

The CHAIRMAN. Just with the Red Lake band.

Mr. BALLINGER. Now, that Red Lake Reservation was continued intact. No allotments were made to them and these annual payments were made to them. In 1916 the Indian Bureau drafted a provision of law which was sent to Congress and included in the Indian appropriation bill approved May 18, 1916 (39 Stat. 137). This provision starts out with these words, "To carry into effect an act entitled an act for the relief and civilization of the Chippewas in the State of Minnesota, approved January 4, 1889, to provide for the establishment and administration of a forest reserve and for the sale of timber within the Red Lake Reservation, Minnesota; that the following-described lands within the Red Lake Reservation, Minnesota, be and the same are created into a forest reserve to be known as the Red Lake Forest.

Instead of carrying into effect the act of 1889, it cut the heart out of it. After establishing a forest reserve, this provision of law provided:

That no such allotment shall exceed eighty acres nor have more than eighty rods fronting upon a lake shore: Provided further, That in case an Indian has improved and cultivated more than eighty acres, his allotment may embrace his improvements to the extent of one hundred and sixty acres.

It will be observed that in order to obtain an allotment within this forest reserve three conditions must be present: First, the land must not contain standing or growing merchantable pine timber; second, it must be suited for the production of agricultural crops; and third, it must be facing on a lake shore. These three limitations exclude allotments within the forest reserve. The Indians reside largely along the south shore of the lake. There are as many as eight families living on a 40-acre tract. They live largely in the forest reserve. On the south side of the lake there is less than 20 miles of land fronting on the lake fit for allotment purposes. As the law limits the frontage of an allotment on the lake shore to 80 rods, not more than 80 allotments

could be made. This land can not be allotted under the act of 1916 as a part of it contains stands of merchantable timber. There is some land on the peninsula, and by that I mean a tongue of land extending from the eastern shores and forming the southern boundary of upper Red Lake and the northern boundary of lower Red Lake, that could be allotted under the act of 1916. It is safe to say that under the limitations contained in that act not more than 20 allotments could be made. Without the limitations contained in that act every Indian on the Red Lake Reservation could be allotted. That act was evidently drawn by some one wholly unfamiliar with physical conditions existing, or with the direct purpose of preventing allotments from being made. The map which I now exhibit to you of the Red Lake Reservation shows the situation I have portrayed.

The act then provided:

That said forest shall be administered by the Secretary of the Interior in accordance with the principles of scientific forestry, with a view to the production of successive simber crops thereon, and he is hereby authorized to sell and manufacture only such ttanding and growing pine and oak timber as is mature and has ceased to grow, and he is also authorized to sell and manufacture from time to time such other mature and marketable timber as he may deem advisable, and he is further authorized to construct and operate sawmills for the manufacture of the timber into merchantable products and to employ such persons as he shall find necessary to carry out the purposes of the foregoing provisions, including the establishment of nurseries and the purchase of seeds, seedlings, and transplants when needed for reforestation purposes.

Senator Nelson, one of the finest men who ever lived, indorsed this act of 1916 because he believed that in this forest reserve the primeval forest of Minnesota could be preserved and perpetuated. Like everything else that has occurred in Chippewa matters in Minnesota, he was deceived. This provision was in fact obtained through the department by the lumber interests of Minnesota. It was easier to deal with the department for all the timber than it would have been to have dealt with each allottee had the land with the timber on it been allotted. No sooner was the law enacted than the department entered into a contract with the International Lumber Co., the contract being dated November 19, 1917, under which that company was authorized to cut all the merchantable timber within the greater portion of the forest reserve. This practically destroyed the forest. It takes 200 years in that country for a white-pine tree to develop. Under this contract the forest is being denuded of all merchantable timber, only the little and scrub trees remaining. So you gentlemen will see that the creation of this forest reserve was essentially in the interest of the lumberman, and that Senator Nelson and every other man who supported it in the belief that he was preserving the primeval pine forest of Minnesota was deceived. But they had no right to take the Indian property, ceded to the Government in trust under the agreement of 1889, and lock it up in perpetuity, even for the preservation of the primeval forest of Minnesota. That was unfair to the Indian. It was taking his property without compensation. It was a violation of a sacred agreement entered into with the United States.

Mr. JOHNSON. What do you think the object of that was? Mr. BALLINGER. Why, the alleged reason for the creation of that was that there was a heavy stand of timber on the Red Lake Reservation, and the department claimed it would not be fair to allow the Indians to come in there and take allotments, as some of them would

get more valuable allotments than the others. This right was guaranteed to them by the agreement of 1889. But in the allotment of lands all the Chippewas of Minnesota have had the privilege of selecting and taking timber lands. There are still valuable stands of timber on the Red Lake Reservation, and the general council says there is no reason why the Red Lakes that have timber upon lands they desire for allotments should not have the benefit of the timber. The real reason, in my mind, was that by the establishment of that forest reserve it perpetuated the Indian Bureau in Minnesota and enabled its employees to perpetuate their jobs.

Mr. ELSTON. That was within the area of the 700,000 acres?
Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. ELSTON. What became of the area outside of that?

Mr. BALLINGER. Two hundred and fifty-six thousand acres were ceded under the act of 1904 and the rest is being held.

Mr. ELSTON. What became of the proceeds that came from the sale of the 2,000,000 acres cut off the Red Lake Reservation under the act of 1889 ?

Mr. BALLINGER. That is in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of all the Indians.

Mr. ELSTON. Do the Red Lakes make any claim to any portion of that fund?

Mr. BALLINGER. Oh, yes.

Mr. ELSTON. They make no claim as to the land in excess of the 700,000 acres?

Mr. BALLINGER. Only in common with all the other Chippewas. Mr. ELSTON. So that to some extent a portion of the act of 1889 has been carried into effect?

The CHAIRMAN. But they do claim a hundred thousand dollar payments.

Mr. ELSTON. That million dollar payment, or $250,000 a year.
The CHAIRMAN. $250,000, with $100,000 per annum.

Mr. ELSTON. But those were not payments outside of this 700,000acre reservation for allotment purposes--this million dollar payment. Mr. BALLINGER: That million dollars was more than a million dollars, because under the agreement as changed by Congress it brought more than a million dollars.

The CHAIRMAN. But the Red Lake Indians got every dollar of that money?

Mr. BALLINGER. Every dollar of that has been paid to the Red Lakes.

Mr. ELSTON. Where was that, outside of the 700,000 acres?
Mr. BALLINGER. Within.

Mr. ELSTON. That is what I thought. It was within the 700,000 acres. The Red Lake area,outside of that was over 2,000,000 acres, and that has all been sold for the common use of the Chippewas. That is now in the United States Treasury, and the Red Lakes do not claim any peculiar interest in that, except an interest in common; is that true?

Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. RHODES. Was it sold prior to this act of 1904, this excess land in excess of the 700,000 acres inquired about by Mr. Elston?

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Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir; under the agreement of 1889. Prior to this act of 1904 no one ever heard of the Red Lake Indians asserting a claim until this agreement was negotiated with the Red Lake Indians in 1902.

Mr. ELSTON. Well, now, if we have the jurisdictional bill here enacted, will the Red Lakes come back and claim a portion of the funds raised by sale of the lands in excess of the 700,000 acres which is now claimed by all the Chippewas in common?

Mr. BALLINGER. No, sir; the Chippewas insist that they are entitled to their share per capita of the proceeds of all sales of land on and off the Red Lake Reservation.

Mr. ELSTON. They are basing their claim as to the 700,000 acres on a different ground entirely from what they claim an interest in the excess over the 700,000 acres? That, they say, they hold in

common.

Mr. BALLINGER. I might say that the basis of the Red Lakes' claim, as now asserted, as I understand it, is that the commission reserved 700,000 for allotment purposes.

Mr. ELSTON. That they owned it originally from the treaty of 1854. Mr. BALLINGER. They claim now that they did have some interest in the land prior to that time, but by their own agreement in 1889 they ceded everything in the Red Lake Reservation that was not needed for allotment purposes.

Mr. ELSTON. I can easily see where there is some broad question about the 700,000 acres.

Mr. KELLY. Do you claim that the proceeds even of this 700,000 acres should go to the common fund, anything sold outside their allotments to those Indians?

Mr. BALLINGER. Absolutely, and the commission in its report states that the very object of reserving the 700,000 acres of land was that much of it was swamp land and that the commission desired to reserve enough land so that the Indians could select suitable land for allotment purposes. All of the other reservations with the exception of the White Earth Reservation were ceded in their entirety, sold and the proceeds placed in the Treasury for the common benefit of all the Chippewas, including the Red Lakes.

Mr. KELLY. But the limited area reserved for allotments was in excess of an amount sufficient to make individual allotments? Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLY. On the basis of what would be an ideal allotment of 160 acres, would you say?

Mr. BALLINGER. Under the agreement of 1889 it was contemplated and provided that all the Indians other than those residing on the White Earth Reservation and the Red Lake Reservation were to be moved to the White Earth Reservation and then allotted. Mr. RHODES. Have they adopted either an aggregate area, or have they the same rule as the bureau is now trying to

Mr. BÅLLINGER. On the White Earth Reservation, after the allotments have been completed.

Mr. RHODES. Just a moment there. If there is anything left on the White Earth Reservation, after the allotments are made, there is no contention that that is the land of the White Earths?

Mr. BALLINGER. None whatever. It is the common property of all the Chippewas, including the Red Lakes.

Mr. RHODES. How were these allotments made on the White Earth Reservation, were they given a certain number of acres, or were some given more? In other words, were they given 160 acres, 240 acres, or did they all get the same?

Mr. BALLINGER. On the White Earth Reservation they all got the same allotment. They each received 80 acres of land. In 1904 Congressman Steenerson introduced a bill that was passed by Congress which provided that the Indians should be given 160 acres of land or 80 acres additional. Now, I can well understand how there was some difference of opinton. The General Allotment act of 1887 provided for allotments

To each head of a family, one-quarter of a section; to each single person over eighteen years of age, one-eighth of a section; to each orphan child under eighteen years of age, one-eighth of a section; and to each other single person under eighteen years now living, or who may be born prior to the date of the order of the President directing an allotment of the lands embraced in any reservation, one-sixteenth of a section.

In negotiating the agreements under the act of 1889 the Indians understood that each man, woman, and child was to receive 160 acres, and not merely the heads of families. I think the explanation of the commission to the Indians of the act of 1889 clearly justified them in reaching this conclusion. As a matter of fact it was an erroneous construction of the General Allotment act. In order to deal fairly with these people Mr. Steenerson introduced the bill that became the act of 1904 (act of Apr. 28, 1904, 33 Stats., 539), authorizing allotments of 160 acres, and the bill you have under consideration authorizes allotments of 160 acres to the Red Lake Indians and to any others that may be enrolled.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, a few moments ago you stated that the reason the forest reserve was created by the bureau was to perpetuate the Indian Bureau. You had reference to perpetuating the activities of the Indian Bureau in that particular section?

Mr. BALLINGER. Precisely. Of course, not here in Washington— I meant the activities of the Indian Bureau in Minnesota.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, now, if you should get all that you desire to get in this legislation, how long in your judgment do you think it would take to get the activities of the Indian Bureau out of that section?

Mr. BALLINGER. I think, Mr. Chairman, if the Ellsworth bill were adopted as introduced, with some slight changes in phraseology, and that is all the Indian Office has asked with the exception of this Red Lake situation, that the Indian Bureau would cease to function in Minnesota within the next six or seven years. I think they would be at an end.

Now, I want to call attention further to this act of 1916. It provided for the sale of timber, and provided for the deposit of the funds derived from the sale of timber and otherwise in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Red Lake Indians, not to the credit of the Chippewas of Minnesota.

Mr. RHODES. But that was within the 700,000 acre reservation? Mr. BALLINGER. Yes, and it provided that it should draw interest at the rate of 4 per cent per annum. The agreement of 1889 provided that the proceeds derived from the Red Lake property should be deposited in the Treasury to the credit of "all the Chippewas of Minnesota" and should draw interest at the rate of 5 per cent per annum;