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Mr. BROWN. Mr. Lozier, I must flatly say that is not the way it works in the Civil Service Commission. I have rated postmasters myself, done a lot of it. I know it is not done that way, absolutely know it. There is no question about it whatever. I am stating what I know, because I have done it. We certify the men who in our judgment are the three best men for that job, regardless of anything else-politics, religion or anything else—the men in our judgment who have shown the experience and personal qualification that fit them for that job.

Mr. RANKIN. I must say you convict yourself of inefficiency, and therefore do not justify your contention that your operations ought to be extended to these employees. If that is the case you gentlemen do not know what is going on. You are not giving those men the examination that develops the real qualifications.

Mr. LOZIER. Did not this happen at Keytesville, Mo., where you had an examination and made up your eligible list, and the man recommended was not a citizen? He had not been a citizen for the two years required by law, and if you did not afterwards write a letter to the Postmaster General stating that if you had known the fact that you learned afterwards that you would have certified him, and in spite of that fact you did not withdraw the certification of that individual, and the Post Office Department went ahead and appointed that man, who was not qualified under the law.

Mr. Brown. I do not know about that.

Mr. LOZIER. I have a copy of a letter from Mr. Doyle in which he recites those facts that he wrote to the Post Office Department and called their attention to the fact that this party was not qualified and he was appointed.

Mr. BROWN. He probably had been appointed.

Mr. LOZIER. I believe when the original examinations are held the papers are sent in to the Civil Service Commission for rating; I believe those ratings are made on merit, and the three men who are shown to be best qualified are certified as eligible. I think that is true almost universally, but the trouble comes when some favorite man fails to make the eligible list, and an inspector is sent out into the territory to investigate the matter and almost universally some man who is qualified on the eligible list is disqualified, and the gentleman who has the indorsement of the organization is moved up. The trouble is in the field. It is with these inspectors who go out and are influenced by political considerations, and then they make their report to the board, and their report almost universally is approved.

The CHAIRMAN. You are speaking of inspectors of the Civil Service Commission.

Mr. LOZIER. Yes, sir. I think the original rating by the Civil Service Commission is absolutely impartial and technically correct, but the abuse comes when you send those men into the territory, and they are subject to this influence.

Mr. Brown. I can only repeat what I said before, that our field men go out with the understanding that the one thing they are to get is the facts. They are not interested in politics or religion, but are interested in whether or not he is able to do that job, and whether his neighbors think he is. We go to the best people in the com

munity. We go to all classes and ascertain what they think of his ability to do that job.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be your course in regard to these special agents, on the assumption they should be placed under civil service?

Mr. BROWN. We should consult with the Census Bureau officials, find what the duties are, and what, in their opinion, is the type of man they need, and would reach an agreement as to the kind and scope of the examination, then proceed to establish lists, so as to be ready when they are needed. I think that is all I want to say. I do think this is an abuse which should be stopped. It has been stopped administratively.

The CHAIRMAN. You have cited one case of a man who ran a cardindex machine. Mr. BROWN. A card punching machine, two women.. The CHAIRMAN. How extensive has that been? Mr. BROWN. We have no inspection service.

The CHAIRMAN. You ask that we put all these people under civil service, with the exception of enumerators and interpreters, and I think it is up to you to disclose to this committee glaring errors or improper conduct on the part of the special agents that work for the Census Bureau.

Mr. BROWN. It is not improper conduct on the part of the special agent. They appoint special agents and assign them to classified work.

The CHAIRMAN. What is there in the present system that is so bad, as to authority, in putting these people under the Civil Service Commission.

Mr. BROWN. In our opinion there is no reason why they should not be under civil service.

The CHAIRMAN. It is up to you as promoter to prove why they should be.

Mr. BROWN. I have cited certain abuses. The Census Bureau has admitted it and said they have stopped it. I can cite to you a dozen cases of people who have been assigned to stenographic work or bookkeeping, straight classified work.

Mr. GOSNELL. That is over a year and a half ago.

Mr. BROWN. I can cite you people who have done statistical work for years, one for 13 years, when she was supposed to be in the field collecting statistics.

The CHAIRMAN. Who gave her the instructions to do that work? Mr. BROWN. I have no idea.

The CHAIRMAN. You confine the activities of the employees of the census by your right within the limitations of the Civil Service Commission?

Mr. Brown. No. I say they are limited to the collection of statistics under the fundamental act.

The CHAIRMAN. The Census Bureau is at liberty to collect statistics. That is what the bureau is for.

Mr. Brown. There is a lot of clerical work and stenographic work.

The CHAIRMAN. It is all incidental. What are you going to do? You have got to have stenographers and typewriters.

Mr. BROWN. I do not think the Census Bureau should contend their stenographic services should be outside.

The CHAIRMAN. You say they have that, some that should be outside, and put them on the inside work? Mr. BROWN. Yes; they have.

The CHAIRMAN. And on the contrary you say the Census Bureau should not take those inside and put them outside. What are we to get?

Mr. BROWN. They can assign a classified employee here in the city to go out and collect statistics. The reverse is what they do, and we object to their putting into classified work persons who have no classified status,

Mr. REED. How long will these special agents be employed in this work, this 2,000?

Mr. BROWN. Most of them, I stated, for a short period, but I stated they had one person employed in that way, and they continued that employee for 13 years.

Mr. RANKIN. Did that individual do good work?

Mr. BROWN. I have no reason to believe she did not do perfect work. If we held an examination and established her status for appointment, she probably would have stood at the top of the register.

Mr. REED. If she had field work to do she would probably have done nothing? Mr. Brown. She did not do any.

The CHAIRMAN. The practice of independent departments, so called, or bureaus of the Government, when another bureau, with great pains and long work, etc., brings before a committee a certain bill for the carrying on of the work of that department or bureau, is it the practice for some other agency to come in and criticize that bill, and by the introduction of extraneous matter attempt to break that bill down?

Mr. BROWN. I do not know what is the practice for other departments, but it is a practice of the Civil Service Commission when they believe the interests of the Government can be furthered by a change of a bill.

The CHAIRMAN. You are the arbiters of what is proper and not proper?

Mr. Brown. I am simply here to express our opinion. That is all, our judgment, on what should be done.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the practice of the commission in all respects? Mr. BROWN. That is the practice of the commission.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you assist States in getting through Civil Service laws? Mr. BROWN. Yes; whenever required.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a part of your province? In my State you did it so well that they took the law and threw it out of the window.

Mr. Brown. I believe I have nothing further to say.

Mr. Morgan of our office is here and will be glad to give the com• mittee information as to our recruiting methods, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Morgan.

Mr. MORGAN. There is not very much that I can add to what Mr. Brown has said. He has informed you as to what is regarded as the desirability of placing these people in the classified service. I might add a word as to the practicability of it, that there is no occupation for which we have not at one time recruited.

We have no reason to believe that we can not fully recruit at any time in any numbers qualified persons to fill the positions under discussion.

Our system of informing the public as to openings reaches every nook, hole and corner in the United States.

It is without cost to the Government. The newspapers regard information of that kind as news and print it as such. We have our announcements in public libraries and other prominent places. We have 50 radio stations that regularly broadcast our announcements, and our experience has been that there is no difficulty whateverthere is nothing in the way of the performance of this job if it is given us to do.

The CHAIRMAN. How many examinations do you presume you would have to hold if this feature should be introduced in this bill? I think some one said there would be about 2,000 in this list. When I get an announcement from you I send it to newspapers in my district and they print it. In a short term period of employment of this kind, how many applications do you think you would have from an advertisement of that kind, some of the work being in vacation time, and how would you handle the 50,000 applicants that you will have in time to have them ready to be selected and designated for work at the time the next census should be taken? How long were you in taking the examinations of prohibition agents before you came to your decision as to what they were? They were a limited number.

Mr. MORGAN. May I answer the first question first and the other one afterwards?

The CHAIRMAN. You may. Mr. MORGAN. First, of the 2,000 special agents I think it is safe to say that 90 per cent of them would go in without examination at all, because they would be employed for a very short period.

The CHAIRMAN. How could you do that? Mr. MORGAN. Placing positions under the civil-service rules does not necessarily mean that we have to hold an examination in case of a short-term employment. The civil-service rules cover all contingencies, as Mr. Brown explained.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not required to advertise? Mr. MORGAN. Not for a short-time job. The civil-service rule fully provides for job employment without examination. All the bureau has to do is to report the employees that they have accepted to us; I mean very short periods for special jobs.

The CHAIRMAN. How many special agents do you think would come under that practice? · Mr. MORGAN. I do not know how many would be required for longer than sixty days.

The CHAIRMAN. How many?
Mr. MORGAN. I do not know. I can not tell you.

The CHAIRMAN. You said a great many could come in. Why could not all of them come in?

Mr. MORGAN. For the simple reason we are trying to prevent an opportunity for an abuse.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the abuse?
Mr. MORGAN. Mr. Brown, I think, explained that to you.

The CHAIRMAN. He cited a dozen cases. If you say without this examination and without this advertisement that you can certify them to be special agents, what is the use of putting that in this bill?

Mr. BROWN. I said the civil-service rules provide not only for the Census Bureau, but if the position is temporary, short time, there are no requirements for an examination. The departments are permitted to pick up men wherever they please for a job employment when we have no available list. We give them blanket authority to do that. When the employment is for a long period of time we should require an examination. It would be a matter of several months, I should say. I can not say how many will be employed that long. .

Mr. REED. Approximately how many men would you say who are appointed under this blanket authority for short time positions during the year are certified by you, but there having been no examination? Mr. MORGAN. We do not certify them, Mr. REED. Make the appointment. Mr. MORGAN. We let them pick them up and report them to us. Mr. REED. What is the object of reporting them to you?

Mr. MORGAN. We have to have a report of all persons employed in the civil service for the records.

Mr. REED. That has nothing to do with their qualifications.
Mr. MORGAN. No,sir; it has not.

Mr. REED. If you have a list of those, approximately how many are appointed regardless of qualifications, that come through your office?

Mr. MORGAN. I do not understand your question.

Mr. REED. I say how many are appointed for these short-time jobs, whose names are cleared through your office, no examinations being required for the whole Government service?

Mr. BROWN. We have thousands of them for all departments. It is a very usual thing. It would not be good business to try to hold an examination for a small, short-time job.

Mr. REED. Then each department has that blanket authority? Mr. MORGAN. They have to get it from us. We do not give them a general blanket authority. They have to get it from us to cover certain conditions. We do not give any department general blanket authority.

Mr. REED. What I was trying to get at, and I am only looking for information, is exactly why, if they have this authority to make these appointments, they come to you, why they clear through your office.

Mr. MORGAN. All appointments in the civil service have to be reported to our office; we must prevent illegal appointments.

Mr. REED. These are not strictly speaking civil service, because that presupposes an examination to show their qualifications.

Mr. MORGAN. When I say “civil service", I am using it in the broad sense. All positions in the executive branch of the government are in the civil service. A good many people use the term civil service” in a wrong sense. What they mean when they say

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