Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it has taught us that we are going to every extreme not to build any more towns. Senator SPARKMAN. You did not do it before as a matter of choice; you did it as a matter of necessity? Mr. WILLIAMS. The Atomic Energy Commission inherited it from the Manhattan District; but the Manhattan District did not do it because they liked it. It was necessary in order to get the job done. Senator SPARKMAN. Yes. Senator Long, do you have any questions to ask? Senator LONG. You mention that this present bill would construct housing with private funds. That would, nevertheless, be with Government credit, of course, indirectly. If there was any loss, the Government would take the loss because the Government would insure those loans; would they not? Mr. WILLIAMS. I would suspect that they would. Senator LONG. Ninety percent guaranty, with the Government insuring the mortgage would, in effect, cause a loss to fall on the Government, if there is any substantial loss. Usually the cost of constructing is not quite as high as the estimated cost. The experience we had under section 608 was that some of these builders would construct housing for less than the actual estimated cost. Sometimes they would construct it for below 90 percent of the estimated cost; actually make a profit even over and above the amount that the Government would insure. So, in the long run, it is Government credit that would finance this housing. Senator CAPEHART. Have you finished? You have not given any great amount of thought to a program whereby this property, instead of being rental property, might be individually owned by the families, have you? Mr. WILLIAMS. No. We haven't given any great amount of thought to it. As I say, Senator, in the beginning we felt that private enterprise would determine how many houses would be privately owned and how many would be rental. I mean, this would be a natural result, depending upon prices and conditions. Senator SPARKMAN. May I intervene right there? Senator Long, you may not have been here. Mr. Foley testified that, first of all every attempt would be made to have private industry do it, and to have it owned privately; but if the Government has to build houses itself, it will not build them to operate as a Federal town, but for sale to the individual families, and will start the sale immediately after building, selling them just as fast as possible. Senator CAPEHART. Mr. Williams, have you already picked the site for the two towns adjacent to these two projects? Mr. WILLIAMS. Had? Senator CAPEHART. Yes. Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. We picked a production site only. The Atomic Energy Commission picked only the site for the production plant. Senator CAPEHART. You have not picked the site for the towns? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. Senator CAPEHART. Who will do that? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, we assumed that private enterprise would. I do not know who it would be, but we assumed there would be enough private enterprise within the vicinity of these plants to take care of that. Senator CAPEHART. Well, is it your thought that there might well be a half dozen cities of 2,500 each adjacent to or around the perimeter of your property, or is it your thought that it will be one city of, say, 25,000 people? Mr. WILLIAMS. I am not prepared to give any very intelligent information along that line, Senator, because we have been concerned with getting the plant built, and assumed there would be other mechanisms set up to take care of the housing of the people. Senator CAPEHART. I would like to ask the chairman, Has there been any testimony to date as to whether the sites for one town adjacent to each of these projects, or several towns, whether they have been picked or not? Senator SPARKMAN. No; there has been no testimony to the effect that they have been picked. In fact, I think we would infer from all the testimony that no such site has been picked. Senator CAPEHART. Of course, there is nothing in the bill that says that the property should be built in a specific place; but I am wondering, frankly, about the speculation on the land adjacent to these plants. Under title III of the act, of course, the Government has the right to go in and buy the land and hold it for resale purposes at a fair price. I am wondering if you know whether that has been done. or not; or whether anybody has purchased any of the land. Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not have any information on it. Senator SPARKMAN. Well, I think we can say positively that it has not been done by the Government. First of all, there is no authority for any Government agency to do that. I asked a while ago if the acreage shaded there included land sufficient for housing, and his answer to that was, it did not. Senator CAPEHART. I was going to ask that question. This is Aiken, S. C. Is that true in Kentucky, that the land that you own is not sufficient for your purposes, as well as building a city? Mr. WILLIAMS. The land at Paducah is only for the production plant. Senator CAPEHART. Then this town or towns will be built on land outside that which is now owned by the Atomic Energy Commission? Mr. WILLIAMS. The workers who will work at the plant will have to secure lodgings outside the plant site. Senator CAPEHART. No lodging on the Government property at either one of these sites? Mr. WILLIAMS. At the most, we might have to put up some construction barracks; but we hope not. Senator CAPEHART. They would be temporary, and torn down when the buildings were completed? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Senator CAPEHART. You said a moment ago that you felt that the prices of the land may be doubled. I believe you said you had no documentary proof of that. What is it, just gossip or hearsay? Mr. TowNE. We made a phone call this morning to Augusta to check on the status of land values. Senator CAPEHART. Will you talk a little louder, please? Mr. TowNE. We made a phone call to our office in Augusta, Ga., this morning, to check on the status of land values. Our representa tive contacted some local real-estate people; and there were a few informal opinions ventured by the local real-estate operators. I do not believe that we have any specific transactions available at the moment that would prove anything much. In general, however, land that was selling prior to the announcement of the site, according to these reports, at from two to four hundred dollars an acre, and suitable for residential development Senator CAPEHART. You are talking about South Carolina now? Mr. TowNE. Yes; is now selling, or reputed to be selling in the neighborhood of four to eight hundred dollars per acre. Now, these are actual transactions that were reported to us; but I do not have any specific record of what lots were involved. Senator CAPEHART. It is not quite clear to me. Unfortunately, I have not been here during the testimony; but it is not quite clear to me who is going to say that this town will be built at this point or that point; or are we going to have a conglomeration of a lot of little towns and developments one here, and one here, and one some place else? Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe, Senator, that is a technical problem for someone. Senator CAPEHART. I understand it is; but who is that someone? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it is provided for in this particular bill; and if the bill were passed, it would be the Administrator of the Housing and Home Finance Agency. Senator CAPEHART. Mr. Chairman, you get my thought. Have we had testimony to that effect? Senator SPARKMAN. Yes, we have. I think I can clear it up with this statement. If a plant is put in an area where there are towns nearby, you, naturally, will expect the expansion to take place in those towns. If it is out in the country in some remote areas, where there are no towns, private industry might come in of its own accord and start a town; but if it did not do so, under title III, I think it is, the Government has the right to buy land upon which housing and community facilities can be built; and then to resell that land to private individuals who will do the building. In the event private enterprise should not come in, even under that arrangement, and there was no other way to get the housing, the Government could go in and build the housing, itself. But even if it did that, it would not do it with the idea of operating it as a Government town, but with the idea of putting those houses on the market and selling them just as fast as possible. Senator CAPEHART. How many acres are there in South Carolina? Mr. WILLIAMS. The original estimate was 250,000 acres. We have cut that down. It is probably somewhere between two hundred and twenty and two hundred and fifty thousand. Senator CAPEHART. What is the acreage at Kentucky? Mr. WILLIAMS. It is about seven-thousand-three-hundred-andsome-odd acres. Senator CAPEHART. I presume they have in Kentucky and South Carolina the same as we do in Indiana, a map showing the ownership of the land, so many miles from these tracts. We might ask either these gentlemen or Mr. Foley to get that map in here at the earliest possible moment, so we could find out who owns the land now; and as this matter develops to see whether there are many sales; and we might make some effort here to stop speculation in that respect. Does anyone happen to know whether South Carolina has such a map? You can buy a county map, let us say, of South Carolina that shows the ownership of all the land in that county. Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not know, sir. I would expect that Mr. Foley might be in a position to furnish such information. We are not, without quite a bit of effort on our part to get it. We do not have it. Senator SPARKMAN. I call your attention to this fact: Under the proposed bill, the Government would have the right to condemn land. Senator CAPEHART. They might. I presume they would on that which they were going to build, themselves; but they would not, if private industry was going to build. Senator SPARKMAN. Yes, the Government could condemn the land necessary for the housing; and after it acquired title Senator CAPEHART. They could acquire title and sell it back to private industry. Senator SPARKMAN. That is right; and the Government can use its power of condemnation for that. Therefore, whereas speculation does enter into it certainly as far as private industry coming in on its own and developing it, it might not be too great a factor as far as the Government is concerned in coming in and condemning it. Senator CAPEHART. I would like to recommend that this committee make an effort to secure a statement of the ownership of the land within the adjoining counties of these two projects; because if it is like it is in our State, it is no expense and no particular effort. We could. have the committee keep it on file here; so that at some future time we might be able to see how much turn-over there is in that land, and what price it sells for. Senator SPARKMAN. We will turn that over to our staff director. Is there anything further? Senator CAPEHART. That is all. Senator SPARKMAN. Does anyone have anything further? Thank you very much, gentlemen. We appreciate your coming with us. Before we recess I have several letters and telegrams for insertion in the record. (The letters and telegrams referred to follow:) Hon. BURNET R. MAYBANK, UNITED STATES SENATE, Washington, D. C., January 16, 1951. Chairman, Banking and Currency Committee, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR MAYBANK: I am enclosing recent correspondence I have had with the President concerning Federal aids for housing to be constructed in defense areas, including the vicinity of reactivated military installations. It is noted that section 202 (b) of S. 349, upon which your committee is now holding hearings, carries forward the basic idea contained in S. 4145, which I introduced in the Eighty-first Congress on September 12, 1950, during your absence on official business, for myself and Senators Sparkman, McMahon, and Capehart. It was the aim of that bill to provide portable or mobile rental housing for service personnel and their families at military installations reactivated since June 25, 1950. Such housing could be provided under S. 349 upon an appropriate finding by the President of the need for such housing. I feel legislation of this nature is long overdue and I hope its enactment may be expedited by Congress. I would appreciate your entering this letter and its enclosures as part of the record of the current hearing. Very sincerely yours, WILLIAM BENTON, United States Senator. DECEMBER 29, 1950. The Honorable HARRY S. TRUMAN, The White House, Washington, D. C. DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: When the Forty-third Division of the National Guard was called to active duty, I set out to see what could be done quickly to provide adequate housing for the families of guardsmen, over 5,000 of whom come from Connecticut. I concluded the best program would be to provide prefabricated portable or mobile housing in the vicinity of military installations reactivated since June 25, 1950. Funds to undertake this plan were available from income derived from temporary housing erected during World War II. Rents to be paid by the occupants would have made the program quite inexpensive to the Federal Government. The demountable nature of the homes would have made possible their use elsewhere than at the site upon which they were originally erected, if that should later prove desirable. On September 12 I introduced a bill, S. 4145, to provide a legislative basis for this plan. Fortunately I managed to gain unanimous approval of the bill in the Senate on September 15 without it having gone to committee. I have heard no criticism of the measure except that it may be difficult to supply utility services to the homes and that some officials prefer not to provide accommodations for the families of military personnel at training camps. I believe the difficulty acknowledged in the first criticism is easily surmountable. It becomes a minor headache in the face of the severe problems confronting the Nation. As to the second criticism, I know that married veterans of World War II have told me their morale was lowered, not heightened, by inability to be with their families. I have been informed that at Camp Pickett families have followed the head of the family despite the lack of appropriate accommodations. I acknowledge, Mr. President, that the passage of time may call for a war housing program much greater in scope than that which I set forth in S. 4145 to meet the problem last September. I urge you to give consideration to a housing program which will meet the needs of servicemen and their families and the increasing housing needs of civilian war workers. I feel such a program should be considered early in the Eighty-second Congress. I do not believe this Nation should await a possible period of full mobilization before providing appropriate legislation to meet a growing demand for military and defense housing. Very sincerely yours, WILLIAM BENTON, United States Senator. CHARLESTON FREE LIBRARY OF THE COUNTY OF CHARLESTON, Senator BURNET R. MAYBANK, Charleston 16, S. C., January 13, 1951. Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR MAYBANK: We understand that you and Senator Fulbright will introduce into Congress a bill providing funds for housing and for community facilities for areas feeling the impact of defense activities. We urge you to see that public libraries are included among these community facilities. Public library service is, as you know, of the utmost importance in the defense program, and should have high priority for Federal aid. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Very sincerely, MARY VARDRINE MCBEE, CHEROKEE COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARY, The Honorable BURNET R. MAYBANK, Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR MAYBANK: May we urge you to include libraries in your bill to provide Federal funds for housing and community facilities. The public library is the information center, the research agency, and the morale builder in its community. Help us to educate the citizen in the civil defense program. Sincerely yours, CLAUDIA THOMAS SANDERS, Secretary, Cherokee County Public Library Board. |