embodied in this amendment is a retrograde movement, and goes further than the gentleman from Centre (Mr. M'Allister) wishes it to go. I have never been an advocate of special legislation, but I can see that the term "general laws" would here confine the action of the Legislature to the adoption of the maximum rates of passenger and freight by a general law, which would be utterly impossible, or at least impracticable for all the railroads in the State. As these rates at present exist, ordinarily no railroad has a larger rate of freight than three and a half or four cents per ton per mile. Now, that rate, while it may be fully adequate for any main line, is entirely too low for a railroad of eight or ten miles length. It is utterly impossible for a railroad company to operate a line of that length under a law which would base the maximum rate upon the tolls charged upon the longer roads. Therefore, if you are to fix a maximum rate to apply equally to all the railroads in the State, if you fix the rate upon the present average, you will bankrupt the small companies, and if you increase the maximum to the larger rate charged by the short roads you permit the large companies to charge a much greater price than they are entitled to. For that reason the words "general laws" should be stricken out, and the amendments should be so modified as to permit the Legislature to fix the maximum of each road as the emergency arises.

But the proposition, even with the amendment, does not come up to the requirements of the people. Any proposition that requires that the Legislature shall provide, or that a railroad company shall provide, a uniform rate per ton per mile, is establishing a principle that cannot be carried out without great injustice to the people. No railroad in existence can make a uniform rate per ton per mile, and compete with other railroads outside of this State. If you mean to crush the railroads of Pennsylvania, you can establish such a principle; if not, you cannot. Unless you want to saddle upon the people of this State burdens higher than those now imposed upon them, by making that rate so high that they cannot bear it, you cannot establish any uniform rate under which the smaller roads of the Commonwealth can be operated.

For that reason I would have this proposition amended in such a way as to strike out "per ton per mile." I would compel the companies to go still further,

because, though the Legislature may compel a railroad company to fix a uniform rate, that is not all that the people require as against these railroads. You may make a uniform rate, and make it so oppressive that you can crush the people of the interior, or the people of a particular 10cality, while you are benefiting all the through roads. One of the objections which the people have to the general railroad system, as at present conducted, is that the local freights are too severe and are made to bear the burdens of all the through freight that pass from Philadel phia, for example, to Pittsburg or Chicago One of the evils to be remedied by this Constitution, if we meet the desire of the people in the convocation of this Convention, is to say that no railroad shall charge more freight from here to Harrisburg than it does from here to Pittsburg, or from here to Pittsburg than it does from here to Chicago. This provision will permit them to do that, and in order to avoid that I will move to amend the amendment still further and put this clause at the foot:

"No higher rate for fare or freight shall, at any time, be charged for a shorter distance than is at the same time charged for a longer distance; nor shall a higher rate at any time be charged for a given distance upon any part of a road than is at the same time charged for a like distance upon any other part of the road."

Something ofthat kind is what is demanded by the people of the interior of the State. Something of that kind is demanded by those who are to encourage manufacturing business outside of the termini of the roads, in order to give them an opportunity to carry on business at other places than in the principal cities. If that is done, then you make it possible for the people to ask at the hands of railroads that they shall not discriminate against them, and that is the great vital question for which the people are to-day asking.

It is not a question of keeping the offi cers of railroads from engaging in a particular business; but the question is where we shall restrict them so that they shall deal equally with all men, so that they shall not discriminate against one locality in favor of another, or against the people who ship over a short distance in favor of those who ship over a long distance. All this can be remedied by this Convention, without in the least injuring the railroad companies. I doubt much whether the strongest advocates of rail

roads in this House would go so far as to resist that proposition; and yet I believe the people are demanding it, they are looking for it. In the memorials presented here to-day, signed by hundreds of persons, this great proposition is presented to this Convention, and they are asked to consider it and to embody it in the fundamental law. My friend from Centre goes too far when he undertakes to break down the report of the Committee on Railroads, to as low a standard as indicated by the section he proposes. It is giving tar less than the people demand; far less than they should have, and far less than they have a right to have after they have agreed that the property they have owned may be taken and used by these corporations.

While I am in favor of railroads I am only in favor of them so long as you compel them to do what is right. I am in favor of them as against all attacks upon them to restrict them or cripple them or make the railroads of Pennsylvania of less importance than those of the great State of New York. I want our roads to be the greatest and the best in the Union, and this does not interfere with their character as such, and I trust that this Convention will see that this, or something like it, be adopted. I am not particular about the exact words that 1 lay down; I am not wedded to anything of that kind; but I do insist that they shall consider carefully, and that if possible they will incorporate a principle equivalent to that in this Constitution, so that when we go home the people may see that we have at least done something towards doing good.

Mr. HARRY WHITE. I move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The motion was not agreed to, there being, on a division: Ayes, thirty-six; noes, forty-nine.

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Somerset (Mr. Baer.)

Mr. RUSSELL. The gentleman from Somerset has not yielded the floor.

Mr. KNIGHT. I rose to ask him a question.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair understood that the gentleman from Somerset had yielded the floor.

Mr. KNIGHT. I wish to ask the gentleman from Somerset why lower rates are charged for long than short distances, if that be the fact? Now, suppose a ton of freight to be carried a thousand miles on

the same route, or one hundred, that would reduce it down to carrying it one mile for one cent. I want to know how you are going to load and unload freight for one cent per ton, per mile?

Mr. BAER. That is just my argument. I say it is utterly impossible. It cannot be done.

Mr. MACVEAGH. The gentleman from York, the chairman of this committee-if the gentleman will withdraw his amendment-will explain to the committee that he purposes to add to the section a provision for the use of commutation tickets, and for reasonable discriminations within distances of thirty miles. If these two things are added to the section, it seems to me it relieves it of its difficulty.

Mr. BAER. Mr. Chairman: In answer to the question put by the gentleman from Philadelphia, I concede that there must be a certain amount of discrimination, and the proposition that I have asked to be attached to the amendment of the gentleman from Centre concedes the right of that discrimination. It does not make provision that the companies shall charge just the same rate, but on the contrary, it recognizes the right of discrimination, which I say is an absolute necessity for the railroads, because you cannot handle a car perhaps for less than five dollars, whether it comes a distance of five miles, or fifty. No railroad company can afford to handle a car at all, whether it be empty or full, without some consideration, and nothing less than three dollars would do anyway.

This proposition does not preclude that. It only provides that they shall not charge a greater rate for a short distance than for a long distance; for instance, that the charge from here to Harrisburg shall not be greater than from here to Pittsburg, but it may be as great; or in other words, that a car loaded with goods shipped from here to Pittsburg may be charged the same that you charge from here to Chicago, but the company shall not charge more than they do from here to Chicago. As it is now, I am told, they will take goods in New York and send them through Pennsylvania to Chicago for a less rate than they will send them to the town of Johnstown, which is but two hundred and sixty miles from here. That sort of discrimination is what the people are complaining of, but they are willing to concede a reasonable discrimination, because there must be a reasonable discrimination, and the section, as proposed by the gentleman

from Centre, does not allow that discrimination, and therefore, I consider that in so far it is wrong, because it fixes a rigid fixed rate per ton per mile, and if you fix a rate of that kind no railroad can live and do business.

For these reasons, I trust that this committee, before they vote down this proposition, will consider it well. I am well pleased with the principal parts of the amendment of the gentleman from Centre and with the amendment that I have suggested to it, I think it would cover the ground, and would cover a number of the sections that are contained in the report of the committee.

Mr. BIDDLE. Mr. Chairman: This is a most important section, and it occurs to me that it is better for the committee to rise now and give the gentleman from Somerset, who has just called our attention to this subject, an opportunity of preparing his amendments in such shape

that we can act upon them readily. I, therefore, move that the committee do now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The motion was agreed to.

The committee of the whole accordingly rose, and the President having resumed the chair, the Chairman (Mr. Broomall) reported that the committee of the whole had had under consideration the article reported by the Committee on Railroads and Canals, and had directed him to report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Leave was granted, and to-morrow fixed as the time for sitting again.

Mr. STANTON. I move that the House do now adjourn.

The motion was agreed to, and at five o'clock and forty minutes P. M. the Convention adjourned until to-morrow morning at ten oclock.

WEDNESDAY, April 23, 1873.

The Convention met at 10 o'clock A. M., Hon. W. M. Meredith, President, in the chair.

Prayer by Rev. J. W. Curry.

The PRESIDENT. The resolution will be referred to the Committee on Railroads and Canals, under the rule.

RAILROADS AND CANALS.

Mr. DARLINGTON. I move that the

RESIGNATION OF MR. BARTHOLOMEW.

The PRESIDENT. The Chair has re

whole for the consideration of the article on railroads and canals.

Mr. DARLINGTON. I move that the resignation be accepted, and referred to the delegates at large elected on the same ticket.

The motion was not agreed to.

NEW ARTICLE ON RAILROADS.

Mr. BROOMALL. I offer the following resolution:

Resolved, That the Committee on Railroads and Canals consider and report upon the following article:

SECTION 1. Any individual or any corporation, organized for the purpose, shall have the right to construct a railroad between any two points in the State, subject to the payment of all damages thereby caused.

SECTION 2. No railroad company or owner shall discriminate unreasonably against the people of this State, or of any section of it, nor in favor of its owners, stockholders or officers in carrying freights and passengers.

SECTION 3. The Legislature shall make all laws necessary to carry these provisions into effect.

The motion was agreed to, and the Concommittee of the whole, Mr. Broomall in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. The committe of the whole resumes the consideration of the The article on railroads and canals. question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Centre (Mr. M'Allister) to strike out and insert.

Mr. BAER. I wish to ask the Chair at

this time whether the motion I made, to strike out the words, "general laws," in the amendment of the gentleman from Centre, when it was last under consideration, would now be in order?

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Somerset, (Mr. Baer,) to the amendment of the gentleman from Centre, that amendment being to strike out the words, "general laws," and insert the word "law."

Mr. M'ALLISTER. With the permission of the gentleman from Somerset, I desire to make a remark.

Mr. BAER. I have no objection.

Mr. M'ALLISTER. What is considered here as an amendment offered by myself to my own proposition seems to be somewhat of an anomaly. The words, "or other transportation companies," were inserted at the suggestion of a number of my friends, and I asked where, and they said in the first line after the word "canal," and they were, without thought, inserted there. Those words were inserted in the wrong place and disorganized the whole section. I moved yesterday to insert the words, "canal or other carrying company," in the sixth line,after the word "railroad," so as to read, "railroad, canal or carrying company." Now, that was

submitted as an amendment. I suggested it as an alteration of my proposition, and I think I was entitled to have that alteration made.

The CHAIRMAN. It was so done. It was not considered as an amendment. The gentleman modified his own motion.

Mr. M'ALLISTER. If it was so done, I ask now simply to strike out the words, "or transportation companies," after the word "canal," in the first line.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman can so modify his amendment.

Mr. DARLINGTON. I wish to ask the gentleman from Centre a question. I notice that by the amendment, as it reads, railroads and canal companies heretofore constructed, or hereafter to be constructed, are declared public highways.

Mr. M'ALLISTER. No, railroads and canals. The words," or transportation companies," are stricken out, and the letter "s" added to the word "canal"

Mr. BAER. Before proceeding with this discussion, I desire to ask the Chair whether it would be proper at this time to withdraw the amendment which I of fered before, and present an amendment to the amendment of the gentleman from Centre, which will strike out all of his amendment, and insert a substitute.

The CHAIRMAN. It is in order to with

draw the amendment to the amendment.

Mr. BAER. Will it then be in order to move an amendment to that, to strike out all of his amendment?

The CHAIRMAN. It is in order to offer an amendment to the amendment, to strike out all after the word "section."

Mr. BAER. Then I withdraw the amendment which I offered before, and move to strike out all after the word "canals," in the amendment of the gentleman from Centre, and insert as follows;

"Are hereby declared public highways, upon which, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law, all persons have an equal right of having their persons and property transported, at rates of fare, freight and tolls which shall be the same to all, never higher for a shorter distance than for a longer distance upon the same road, and for equal distances always the same; and the Legislature may, by law, determine the maximum of rates."

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment to the amendment.

Mr. BAER. Mr. Chairman: By comparing the amendment to the amendment with the amendment itself, and with sec

tions eight and nine of the report of the Committee on Railroads and Canals, it will be found that this amendment which 1 have offered covers all of these propositions with the exception of that provision which relates to free passes. That will come up as a separate proposition, for the reason that it is one of the non-essentials, and should not be made a part of so great a question as this, which should be submitted separately to the vote of this Convention. This question of uniform rates should stand alone, and it will suffer from being connected with any other considerations. Some gentlemen will be willing to vote for the entire clause containing the restriction on free passes; others will vote for the clause and agamist this restriction, and vice versa. So I have separated the free pass question from the question of uniform rates, and submitted the latter question as a distinct proposi

tion.

Then, analyzing sections eight and nine of the report of the Committee on Railroads and Canals, you will find that the differences in these two sections, when viewed as combined, are these: They provide by law that there shall be no greater charge made for a shorter distance than for a longer distance, and that for equal distances the rates shall be the same; and all railroads are declared public highways. These provisions are all the same in the sections contained in the railroad committee's report, and in the amendments to the section under consideration. But the amendment which I have submitted starts out in a different manner. Both the report of the Committee on Railroads and Canals and the amendment of the gentleman from Centre, start out with the proposition that all railroads and canals are declared public highways, and that all persons are free to transport their persons and property thereon. Now, if by that proposition you mean that all persons are free to put their locomotives and rolling stock upon these roads and have a general jollification and daily smash-up thereon, I am opposed to it; and I think that is precisely the meaning which you would read into these words. For that reason I have changed that language into this form:

"All railroads and canals are hereby declared public highways, upon which, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law, all persons have an equal right of having their persons and property transported."