be now determined; but, if the two governments desire a friendly settlement of all differences and of all probable or possible causes of difference, they will each naturally use language looking to that end.

"No copy of the Powers of the British Commissioners who negotiated the Treaty of Ghent is found in the Department of State. The form stated in Sir John Rose's Mem. does not appear objectionable; but, not having the words which preceded the negotiations in 1814,' it is thought advisable not to refer to a paper of which we have no copy.

"The Government of the United States in all its branches is desirous of an early, friendly, full, and complete adjustment of all differences and of all questions of difference with Great Britain, and of the removal of all causes likely to give rise to differences or to irritation in the future.

"It is believed that the proposal by Great Britain to send Commissioners here would be regarded and accepted as a friendly advance in reference to past events.

"The idea that the High Commission should not adjudicate on the questions themselves, but arrange by Treaties modes or machinery of doing so,' is, perhaps, not fully understood. It is supposed that, upon the questions (for instance) of the Fisheries, San Juan, the Navigation of the St. Lawrence, the admission of liability of Great Britain for what are commonly known as the 'Alabama Claims,' in whole, or in part, the definition of Public Law or rule to be established between the two powers as to maritime neutrality, &c., the negotiators (by whatever name known) could and should themselves treat, adjudicate and determine.

"If the idea be only that the High Commissioners are not to adjudicate upon the amounts or validity of claims, but are 'to arrange by Treaties modes or machinery of doing so,' it is approved.

Possibly the High Commissioners (this designation is used throughout to indicate the Commissioners or Negotiators of both and of each Power by whatever name commissioned) may agree upon a gross or lumping' sum to be paid to the United States in satisfaction for what are known as the ‘Alabama Claims,' and for the expense to which the Government of the United States was put in the pursuit and capture of the vessel or vessels which inflicted the damage. If not, but if they settle the question of liability, the amount of liability would seem a proper subject for reference to a mixed commission with judicial functions, and the composition or mode of forming such mixed commission should be a subject of consideration and agreement by the High Commission.'

"On the subject of the 'Alabama Claims,' a reference, in case one be agreed upon in any event, of the facts as they appear in the Diplomatic Correspondence, might operate unjustly. Such facts as could be agreed upon by the High Commission' might be submitted, as well as those which appear in the

6

Diplomatic Correspondence, and each party should be left at liberty to prove other pertinent facts, and to present such arguments in support of, or in opposition to each claim, as it may desire.

66

The great importance of arranging the Fisheries question before the commencement of another season is fully appreciated-indeed that importance can not be exaggerated or overstated.

"If, therefore, the negotiations can be brought to such a point as to secure the assent of the Senate of the United States (and it cannot be too strongly enforced that without such assent no Treaty or Negotiations can under the Constitution of the United States become operative or binding upon the United States) before its adjournment, it is greatly to be desired. Every effort of the Executive department of the Government may be relied upon to meet any corresponding effort of the Government of Great Britain to arrive at the earliest possible, friendly, honorable, satisfactory solution of the questions which exist between them.

6

"It is necessary and due to candor to note that unless Great Britain is willing to have the High Commission' declare her liability for the depredations of the 'Alabama,' including the expense of the Government of the United States in her pursuit and capture, and to express some kind words of regret for past occurrences, it were better to take no steps-failure would leave things worse than they are.

"It would be expected also that the principles on which the liability for the 'Alabama' may be admitted or declared, should be applicable, so far as the facts may justify or apply, to the other cruisers.

"It is also due to candor to note that the Mem.' of Sir John Rose has been submitted to the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations (to which Committee all Treaties or Conventions are referred by the Senate before their advice upon them), and that Senator has expressed the opinion that the withdrawal of the British flag cannot be abandoned as a condition or preliminary of such a settlement as is now proposed. To make the settlement complete the withdrawal should be from this hemisphere, including provinces and islands;' he seems to think this necessary, in order that we may be at peace and good neighbors.'

"General Schenck's departure will be delayed for a short time to ascertain whether the plan suggested by Sir John Rose will be carried into effect.

"The proposed mode of introducing the proposition is acceptable.

"The session of the Senate will probably not continue beyond the latter part of March-it might possibly be continued if the proceedings of the High Commissioners give promise of a satisfactory conclusion.

"This body will not again convene after its adjournment in

the spring, until December next-in the meantime there will be another Fishing season with its complications, if not its perils. No Convention or arrangement can receive the sanction of that body until December, unless entered into before the middle or end of March."

Conference of January 24, 1871.

After preparing this memorandum, Mr. Fish held consultations with leading Senators. Nor did he confine himself to representatives of his own party. He took counsel with Mr. Bayard and Mr. Thurman, and perhaps with others on the Democratic side of the chamber, and received assurances of support in his efforts to bring about an amicable settlement. After a week wisely and busily spent in thus making sure of his ground, he met Sir John Rose again, and held with him a conversation, of which Mr. Bancroft Davis, the only other person present, made at the time the following record:1

"MEMORANDUM OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN MR. FISH AND SIR JOHN ROSE, AT MR. FISH'S HOUSE, JANUARY 24, 1871.

"Mr. Fish stated that Sir John Rose's memorandum had been carefully considered by himself; that there had been delay in answering it, in consequence of difficulties and embarrassments with which Sir John Rose was familiar; that each branch of the Government of the United States was anxious to meet any friendly advance by Great Britain in such a cordial way as to secure the establishment of permanent friendly relations between the two countries, and to put a stop to all sources of irritation; that he, Mr. Fish, had prepared what he had thought might be a reply to Sir John Rose's Mem., but, on reflection, and on consultation with some leading Senators and others, it was thought best not to insist on certain matters specifically therein referred to. Mr. Fish then read his memorandum, commenting as he read. On the general subject of the matters to be postponed for the consideration of the judi cial mixed commission, explanations took place so that it appeared that the understanding of Mr. Fish and Sir John was alike on that point.

"With regard to the admission of the liability on the Alabama claims, Mr. Fish said that on consultation he had concluded that it was not best to make that specific statement; but, instead, to say that it would be essential that some important concessions should be made as to that class of claims, and some expression of regret at what had occurred; that it had been suggested that, if the Alabama claims were separated

5627-34

1 MS. Journal.

from those of the other vessels, it would secure the opposition of the holders of other claims to the assent of the Senate to any treaty that might be negotiated; and that, therefore, he preferred to make the general statement that important concessions must be made. Sir John Rose suggested that, if it should be determined that such concessions should be made, they could be made in the protocols as the results of the deliberations; to which Mr. Fish assented.

"Mr. Fish showed Sir John Rose, in confidence, the Mem. of Mr. Sumner, which he read and returned. Mr. Fish then said that it had been decided by this government that the best interests of both countries demanded that, should Great Britain send Commissioners out on the basis indicated, they should be received by this government in the spirit in which they were sent, and no effort spared to secure a favorable result, even if it involved a conflict with the Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations in the Senate.

"Sir John Rose then said that he should at once communicate by cable the result of the interview, and, as it was desirable that there should be no misunderstanding of the scope of Mr. Fish's observations, he wished to submit his dispatch to Mr. Fish before sending it. Mr. Fish said that he should be at Cabinet after twelve-then Sir John Rose could judge for himself whether to lay before Mr. Fish what he had to say.

"Sir John Rose asked permission to take with him Mr. Fish's memorandum. Mr. Fish gave his assent, it being understood that it was a crude paper, and did not represent Mr. Fish's views except so far as it agrees with the purport of this conversation.

"Sir John Rose asked if this government had any suggestions to make as to the number of Commissioners on each sidewhether it was desirable to have the same number from each government that the British Government would probably wish to name Sir Edward Thornton, and that it might also be expedient to have Canada represented. Mr. Fish said that it was immaterial, as each government would have but one vote, and that this government also might find it convenient to have a large number of Commissioners.

Mr. Fish again dwelt on the importance of an early organization of a Commission, if there was to be one-to which Sir John Rose gave assent."

Communication to
Lord Granville.

The purport of this interview, comprehending the substance of what Mr. Fish read from his memorandum, as well as of what he stated orally, was immediately communicated to Earl Granville, Her Majesty's principal secretary of state for foreign affairs, in a telegram signed by Sir Edward Thornton, of which Sir John Rose subsequently gave Mr. Fish a copy. In this telegram

it was stated that if Her Majesty's Government would propose a high commission to treat on the subject of the fisheries and on the other questions affecting the relations of the United States to the British possessions in North America the United States would formally assent, on condition that the matters in controversy commonly known as the Alabama claims should be treated of by the commission and put in the way of final and amicable settlement, the mode of settling all other claims to be simultaneously, but separately, considered by the commission; that while the United States cordially acquiesced in this plan, they desired to say that no conclusion reached by the commission would give public satisfaction, unless it involved important concessions as to the liability of England for the depredations of the Confederate cruisers generally, embracing both individual losses and the cost of capturing such cruisers, and that they would expect the British commissioners to be confidentially instructed in this sense, and that the United States also hoped that in the protocols some expression of regret, not inconsistent with the dignity of England, nor involving an admission of national wrongdoing, might be made.

Lord Granville's
Response.

He

Earl Granville willingly assented to these terms, excepting those that related to liability for the acts of the Confederate cruisers. was prepared to express regret for the fact of the escape and depredations of the Alabama, and he was ready to negotiate as to the future obligations of maritime neutrality; but he insisted on the arbitration of the points of law involved in the Alabama question, and declared that Her Majesty's Government could not adopt any foregone conclusion as to the payment of money. Under the circumstances Mr. Fish, having frankly stated what the Government of the United States believed to be necessary to satisfy the country, but impressed with the advantages that would attend a friendly discussion by high commissioners at Washington, decided to postpone for the moment the question of liability, leaving it to Her Majesty's Government, in view of what had been said, to give such instructions on that subject as might seem proper, in the hope that the right feeling and judgment of the commissioners, and the efforts of both governments, might lead to a successful result.