which it was important should be acted upon. As the gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. HARDIN) had remarked, it was commonly the case at the close of a session, private petitions are thrown aside, which in effect was equivalent to a denial of justice. Mr. S. was apprehensive that it was impossible for the House to do the necessary business before the 20th of May; nor was it until within a few years that Congress had adjourned before that period. He formerly knew a session that continued until July; and it was a wellknown fact that the laws passed at the close of a session were slurred over, and put together so loosely that you might drive a coach and six through them. This resolution, he remarked, came from the Senate. And for what purpose? To tell the people that the House of Representatives had not done its duty. That the Senate was ready to adjourn, but that the House was wasting its time. Mr. S. disclaimed imputing any such intentions to that body; but such, he contended, was the obvious operation of it. And shall we say to our constituents, said Mr. S., that we have spent all our time in maturing the business, and that, as soon as we had done that, we had broken up without accomplishing it? If it is inconvenient to gentlemen to remain-that is a circumstance that they should have reflected on before they accepted of their seats; but, at all events, the business of the nation should not be sacrificed to suit the convenience of their Representatives. And now, said Mr. S., after the business has been three months preparing, this subject is taken up for debate and discussion, day after day, in order to hasten the public business!

Mr. RHEA Supported the motion to commit, in a speech of considerable length; but his remarks could not be distinctly heard by the reporter.

MARCH, 1822.

ject were defeated now, yet it would certainly be brought up again.

Mr. J. SPEED SMITH was in favor of the motion. A proposal was now made to us, he observed, to adjourn; and why? Not because we had done the business, but because some spur was necessary to urge us on to our duty. It was unbecoming, he said, for this body to move with a halter round their necks; and he was unwilling to believe or admit that the House of Representatives could not trust themselves without a cord by which they could be guided. The argument of the gentleman from Kentucky, (Mr. HARDIN,) he conceived to be unanswerable, in relation to the business, and he briefly reviewed the various important matters pending before that body. We had gone, he said, through the formality of presenting and referring petitions; they had been laboriously examined by the committees, and the reports had been printed at a very considerable expense; but now we want to go home, and therefore we must leave the business undone, and the same formalities to be gone through with, and the same expense incurred, at the next session. Bet he would not fall into the error of his friend from Tennessee, (Mr. CANNON,) and, in making a long speech against speech-making, enforce by example what he had repelled by precept. For this reason he would sit down.

Mr. WOODCOCK observed that he regretted to take up the time of the House in the discussion of a subject, the object of which was to save time. But he was not willing that the resolution should have the go-by in the manner proposed by the motion. He hoped the question would be fairly met, and not got rid of in this manner. He should pay great deference and respect to the opinions of those who possessed greater exper ence in legislation than himself; but he could not but express his regret that the limit of every session had not been assigned by the Constitution. He admitted the right of members to make long speeches; nor did he wish to abridge that right by any other means than the exercise of their own discretion. We had now been here, he said, almost four months, and but little of the business had been finally disposed of. He wished some method to be adopted which should increase the despatch of the remainder, and he could conceive of no method so effectual as to limit the continuance of the session. If, as the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. SMITH) had suggested, it would be necessary to protract the session to the middle of May, be it so; he was willing to stay as long as the public interest required, but he hoped the proposition would be distinctly met.

Mr. CANNON believed that no time could be fixed on which would be agreeable to his colleague, (Mr. RHEA ;) but he hoped that the time of the House would not be consumed by debating the question. The motion to commit would be equivalent to a vote of rejection, which he hoped the House would not consent to. The session had been spun out by speeches on one or two subjects, yet he did not think the legislation was more correct or perfect by so much speech-making. His observation had convinced him that the perfection of business did not consist in the length of the discussion; for he had remarked that, whenever a great question was inade out of a small one, the members would soon withdraw their attention from it. Mr. C. expressed his belief that the House could dispose of all the necessary business before the time mentioned by the gentleman from North Carolina, (Mr. SANDERS.) Three days. Mr. F. JOHNSON remarked, that those who were had been occupied upon a contested election, in favor of the resolution advocated it on the which might have been determined in two hours; ground that it was impossible to do all the busiand, if a period was fixed, it would put an end to ness before the House, and therefore we ought to useless discussion; yet he could hardly call it dis fix a day on which to adjourn. The same rule, cussion; it was speech-making. Opinions were he observed, would prove that we ought never to not formed or altered by debate. He hoped the come here at all; for we could not do all the busimover would withdraw the motion; for, even if ness before us if we were to continue in session it were to succeed now, yet the question must be until the third of next March. He was not distried at some part of the session; and, if the ob-posed to manacle ourselves in such a manner that

mium for the preference? At least, this case may happen, and provision ought to be made for such a contingency, unless we were disposed generously to give the stockholders the premium.

The section suspends the subscription till next October. He thought if it was to be passed in that shape, it would be useless to pass it at all. The market rate of interest had been advancing for twelve months, and was now advancing; the bill ought to have been acted on two months earlier, and the negotiation, if authorized at all, ought to be effected as early as practicable. He doubted whether we had not even now let the opportunity escape, and he was very certain it would be impracticable twelve months hence. Gentlemen who proposed to suspend the negotiation until next October, November, or December, should reflect that a general revival of trade was sensibly operating upon and absorbing the idle capital of the country, and they should also reflect that, during the present year, we shall probably receive important intelligence relating to the affairs of Europe, which would affect the prices of the stocks of all Governments. He hoped the amendment would be adopted, and that the exchange, if practicable at all, would be made forthwith.

MARCH, 18

could grow out of the measure. He did not beli that Congress could calculate money matters a stocks better than the brokers. They were as a to calculate the contingencies of war in Europe we could be; and they could judge as well, to the least, as we could, what would be the effec such contingencies, to increase or diminish value of stock. It was their business and th pursuit, to which they gave undivided attenti All the affairs of our own Government also w open to their inspection, and they will not m the exchange unless they can get the best of bargain. They will calculate whether the G ernment will redeem the stock or not, and th will inevitably out-calculate us. Mr. J. believ that if we should want money hereafter, we co obtain it on better terms than by adopting t measure. He thought we should use all our effo to discharge the debt, but not to postpone it. must retrench our expenses. Look to the Na He was a friend to it, but he believed it opened ample field for retrenchment, without taking aw its efficiency. Savings might also be made in civil and other departments, the fortifications, We were now paying an annual interest of S 700,000 on the public debt, and such was our Mr. F. JOHNSON said, that gentlemen had said uation, that we were now paying interest on that this was the most important bill which had terest. In such a condition, in his private affai been presented to the House during the session, a prudent man would look about him for obje and he was willing to admit its great importance, of reduction, and for such means as should be c while he should ask the indulgence of the Com-culated to relieve him from the burden of de mittee to make a few observations.

The bill proposes to put it in the power of persons owning twelve millions of the public debt contracted in 1812, and redeemable or not at the pleasure of the Government in 1825, on a part of which is paid six, and a part seven per cent.; and fourteen millions of the debt contracted in 1813, and redeemable in like manner in 1826, bearing an interest of six per cent., to relinquish that debt and take, in lieu thereof, a debt on the Government to be created, bearing an interest of five per cent., which the Government shall not be at liberty to pay off until 1832, 33-34.

Although this bill purported to provide only an exchange of stocks, it was really and substa tially a bill for creating a new loan, and, as su it ought, in his opinion, to be regarded

He liked things to be called by their right nam they would then be better understood by the peop The competition offered by either the bill or amer ment, was confined to the present creditors of t Government; no other than an owner of the o or the other description of stock can become p chasers of this new loan; and it cannot theref be expected, that as good a bargain can be had the Government, as if the market was opened He preferred the amendment proposed by the all; and this was another objection with him gentleman from New York (Mr. CAMBRELENG) to the bill. What! authorize a loan of thirty m the original section, as reported, and particularly, lions, and confine it to a particular description because it did not limit the negotiation to an ex- individuals! It was wrong in policy and prin change on equal terms; for he knew of no reason ple; rely upon it, if the bargain you offer is why we should give to the brokers a stock worth vantageous to the holders of the present stock, th eight or ten per cent. above par, in exchange for will accept it; if it is not, they will not; so th stock that was worth but five or six. But he was the alternative, either way, is a bad bargain to t opposed both to the amendment and the bill, for Government. Nor has it been shown that mon it seemed to presuppose no exertion on the part of will be scarcer two years hence than it is now Congress to pay off the public debt. If, during the and, as we are to make a bad bargain if we ma period of the loan and redemption, we have an any, what good reason can be assigned again excess of revenue, we cannot appropriate it to this postponing this loan of thirty millions, until object. A time of peace was the proper time to have redeemed as much as we can, and what extinguish the debt. Every effort should be made not then redeemed may be put in market, in whi to effect it, and, if we cannot do it otherwise, we others as well as the present stockholders, w ought to reduce and retrench our expenditures. have a right of bidding, and which will insure And shall we now say, at a time when there is no more advantageous contract to the Governmen prospect of war, that it is expedient to postpone the We may then get the full value of the sto debt, instead of paying it off? And for what? which we cannot now reasonably expect; it w Where is the reason and necessity of so doing? then be time enough to adopt the sad alternati Mr. J. was not satisfied that any beneficial result | of loans, when better cannot be done. Mr. J. sa

H. OF R.

Exchange of Stocks.

MARCH, 18

now capable of bearing a direct tax, nor coul tell when it would be. He thought we ough keep a sharp lookout in peace, so as to pay off debts incurred in war, and to avoid loans direct taxes, and a system of strict economy wo greatly aid us therein. This objection to the was reducible to these two grounds-1st, tha was not certain that money will be dearer t than now; and, 2dly, that it was not certain we should be wholly incapable of reducing part of the public debt.

found to sanction or sustain such a proposition. a country situated as ours-the nation was Mr. S. thought the present was a palpable case, and that there could be no reason for refusing assent to such a measure, which was calculated to diminish the national debt. It was very true that this proposition would defer the payment of the public debt, but it would be with the consent of the creditors-and in such case there could be no complaint, nor pretence of injustice. In respect to the amendment, he thought it did not differ much from the principle of the bill; but he was not satisfied that it was preferable to the section as reported. Mr. S. took a particular view of the several parts of the amendment, and to show that it did not improve the bill, but would be injurious to it. The proposition to extend the subscription had been considered by the Secretary of the Treasury and the Committee of Ways and Means, and was deemed unadvisable after deliberation. The probability that the other holders of stock would subscribe was, to say the least, very remote. There was no adequate inducement, and would have the effect to throw so much into the market as might perhaps defeat the object. In another particular, also, the amendment was defective, for it allowed no time for the European stockholders to come forward and avail themselves of the proposed exchange.

Mr. RHEA opposed the amendment at some length, but the position of the reporter would not enable him to hear, with sufficient distinctness, to do justice to his observations.

Mr. TUCKER, of Virginia, was in favor both the bill and of the amendment. It had been jected by the gentleman from Kentucky, brokers would calculate the value of stock be than Congress, and that therefore no benefi bargain of this sort could be made. But this thought depended much on contingencies. there should be war in Europe, the rate of inte will rise, and the value of stock will fall. Ano event might also have an essential bearing u the value of stock. He alluded to the recent commendation to recognise the independenc the South American colonies. This would bably open new sources of trade and industry. was also objected that we might have money hand, lying idle, which might be applied to extinguishment of the debt. To this he rep that it might be used to increase the Sinking Fu The commissioners of that fund could emplo beneficially, and would then be able to purch in the stock on advantageous terms, and, in supposed change of the money market, it wo have a double operation. He considered this one of the most prudent measures that the nat could adopt, and the most fortunate conju tion that could occur for it. He was anxious the bill and amendment should pass, and he thou it could be modified without injury, so as to clude the European holders of the stock who mi wish to avail themselves of the act.

Mr. BALDWIN considered both the bill and amendment as highly important, and he was favor of the principle of both. But it was m rial that the House should well understand The amendment had been just submitted, and thought it was entitled to more deliberate cons eration. He therefore moved that the Commi rise and report progress and ask leave to sit aga Which was agreed to.

Mr. F. JOHNSON replied to the remarks of the gentlemen from Maryland, (Mr. SMITH,) and South Carolina, (Mr. McDUFFIE.) It was by no means his intention to cast any imputation upon the committee who reported the bill, and in relation to the observations of the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. McD.,) he had said nothing whatever about the Army. He had voted for its reduction at the last session; and, with respect to the Navy, he was disposed to lop off such parts of it only as were an encumbrance to it. He did not wish to retard any of the operations of Government-but he was decidedly in favor of a just system of economy, and for examining into every department of the Government, and for reducing and lopping off every expenditure that can be done, without impairing the useful operations of the Government, and such a system, he said, would greatly accelerate its operations and advance its best interests. And he was opposed to the In the House, the amendment, on motion principle of putting a great load of debt upon pos- Mr. WooD, was ordered to be printed, and, a terity. He understood the gentleman (Mr. Mc-granting leave to the Committee to sit again, DUFFIE) to say, that "we had fought and borne House adjourned. the brunt of war, and that posterity ought to be charged with the debt incurred by it-that it would be too much to require us to fight the battles and pay the debts too." If these were that gentleman's notions he differed very widely from him. He would ask what advantage would that liberty and independence be to posterity, which the victories of the present generation had sustained, if we load them with a public debt, which is to destroy the enjoyment of that liberty and independence? Direct taxation, he said, was the worst of evils in

THURSDAY, March 21.

Mr. SMITH, from the Committee of Ways a Means, to which was referred the bill from Senate, entitled "An act authorizing the paym of a sum of money to John Gooding and Jar Williams," reported the same without amendme and the bill was committed to a Committee of Whole.

Mr. SMITH, from the same committee, to wh