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Mr. KELLY. Would you say that the majority is an honest majority of the people on the White Earth :

Mr. LUFKINs. Yes.

Mr. ELSTON. We thank you very much for your statement, Mr. Lufkins. I understand you will want to be heard on this later.

Mr. MERITT. Mr. Paquette would like to be heard. He is from the Nett Lake Reservation.


Mr. ELSTON. Give your business and residence. Mr. PAQUETTE. My business is Indian missionary. I am located at Boise Fort Reservation at Nett Lake Agency. Mr. ELSTON. What tribe are you a member of and what reservation? Mr. PAQUETTE. The Chippewa Tribe, Boise Fort Reservation. Mr. ELSTON. Go ahead. Mr. PAQUETTE. I do not fully understand the argument, Mr. Chairman, this morning, at this meeting, and practically I have nothing to offer contrary to the proceedings of di. committee meeting. I came here with the delegates from the Boise Fort Reservation, and they present us this bill; that is, before this committee met this morning, and after reading and interpreting it thoroughly to them, I asked them what they thought about the bill. They say we have nothing to say at all. We will take it home and consult the rest of the members about what this bill contains. I will tell you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the Boise Fort Indian is neutral in these two factions and has been neutral. Last year, by the direction of the Indian Affairs we met as a delegation at Cass Lake to decide this great indifference between the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota. When the meeting was opened by Mr. Dickens, who was sent by the department there, again arose a faction, after we had presented our credentials as delegates from the Boise Fort Reservation; a faction arose by the White Earth (Minn.) people and that is why I say we are neutral in this indifference, whereas we had presented our credentials as legal delegates to this general council by order of the department of Indian affairs in presenting our credentials there was a division arose between the White Earth delegations, which divided the house, I might state. The full-bloods walked out and made a council of their own while the general council went on its business in its deliberations, and we were betwixt and between, we Boise Fort Indians, and when we found out the way the question stood, although we had presented our credentials, we stayed to this general council where we were sent to attend. Mr. ELSTON. You stayed there and did not walk out? Mr. PAQUETTE. We stayed. Mr. Elston. State in a few words just what the difference is between these two factions. What does the full-blood faction want and what is it they can not get? What is that the half bloods have got that the full-bloods do not want to have State that clearly. Mr. PAQUETTE. I do not know whether I am authorized to make such a statement at this hour. Mr. ELSTON. You would rather wait until March 8 to bring this matter fully out?

Mr. PAQUETTE. Because I would have to consult my people, as I stated, and after viewing this bill and studying it thoroughly, before we can come out and say we want to amend this and we approve that and disapprove this. I am not in shape to stand here in this committee room and suggest what ought to be done as an interpreter for the delegation.

Mr. Elston. As near as you can make it out, what is the recommendation that your people want to make right now? What is your suggestion?

Mr. PAQUETTE. I might state here again that we came on local affairs; we did not come here on general affairs. We presented our council proceedings and resolutions to the office and we got our reply and some of that is not really satisfactory as we would like to have it, but under the conditions we are told by the Indian Office that all our appropriations are cut to carry out the wishes of your people at this time.

Mr. Elston. You know, Mr. Paquette, that that is true, that Congress has tremendously cut the total of the Indian appropriation bill, and that the Indian Bureau has not as much money as it expected to have and wanted to have. You had better explain that to your people.

Mr. PAQUETTE. We wanted road money. We have not enough roads on the Boise Fort Reservation. Of course, since the appropriation bill is done with we are unable to have, at least, $10,000. I talked to the legislative committee and I talked with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. They say you can not get any money.

Mr. MERITT. In that connection, I will say that we had included in our estimates an appropriation for roads in the Chippewa country and representatives of the general council had that item cut out on the floor of the House.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. That is tribal funds.
Mr. MERITT. Not available without authority of Congress.
Mr. Elston. Have you anything further to offer?

Mr. MERITT. Did you want to state anything, Mr. Paquette, that you pointed out this morning, so the committee may get the benefit of it.

Mr. PAQUETTE. We have talked the matter over in regard to the appointment of this commission of three. Now, as I was talking to the Indians representing the Boise Fort Reservation, they claim they would rather have a committee appointed by the President, secretary, in fact, have all these three appointments rignt from Washington. It would be more satisfactory to them rather than any of us to appoint the other member of the committee of three.

Mr. ELSTON. If that other appointment is made, you are afraid it will be from one of the other factions and there will not be fair dealing.

Mr. MERITT. You also pointed out an objection to the $15,000 for a period of five years.

Mr. PAQUETTE. That is another thing they have talked about. They thought best to have this appropriation annual instead of extending it for five years.

Mr. ELSTON. Who is the next witness?
Mr. MERITT. Mr. Graves.



Mr, Elston. What is your business?

Mr. GRAVES, I was a Government employee until last May. I resigned because the mixed-bloods faction accused me that my motive was to prolong the Indian Bureau so that I could hold my position, and for those reasons I resigned.

Mr. Elston. What are you doing now?

Mr. GRAVES. I was census enumerator before I left a short time ago. Mr. ELSTON. Who sent you here? Mr. GRAVES. The Red Lake Band. Mr. Elston. Did they pay your expenses?

Mr. GRAVES. They made a collection and paid my way down, and have authorized the commissioner to look at my expense while down here.

Mr. ELSTON. Go ahead with your views.
Mr. GRAVES. I wish to reserve my statement until the proper time.
Mr. Elston. What do you wish to state now?

Mr. GRAVES. I have to consult an attorney for my statement as to the proposed bill, the Ellsworth bill. Of course, let me mention about Mr. Paquette's reference to the general council of the Chippewas out in Minnesota at Cass Lake last July. For the rest of the provision, the first part of this item says that there is to be a commission created by this act and it would take three men. These here full-blood Indians, these men here, I could not understand anything what they had said. I was trying to get something so that I could probably obtain some interest in the statements they have made, but I will frankly state that I did not understand what they are talking about. Such is the condition of these Indians in Minnesota. They are really noncompetent. Now, these mixed bloods will make you believe that all the Indians in Minnesota are just the same as they are, merchants and lawyers and such as that. Now, Walter F. Dickens was our superintendent at Red Lake and he was transferred to White Earth. After he was transferred to White Earth his chief clerk stayed there at Red Lake, and this chief clerk approached me and said: “Pete, it would be the correct thing if the Red Lake Band would reenter into the general council of the Minnesota Chippewas. That would be the best thing for them to do.” I told him then that I did not think so nor would I advise the Red Lake Band to do so as that would be just to put themselves into a scheming gang that would dictate with regard to their affairs and misrepresent them here of their real conditions. Mr. Cross, the present superintendent there at the Red Lake Agency, a few days afterwards told me that he got a letter from Supt. Dickens, of the White Earth, suggesting that he use his influence with the Red Lake Indians to reenter into the general council of the Minnesota Chippewas. I came down here as an observer of the council. During this session at Cass Lake Mr. Cross came down also, and he asked me, “How is this council going to come out; what do you think about it?" I said, "Since Supt. Dickens is going to have temporary charge of the council he is going to have that council with all these

mixed bloods." I said, “You know that as well as I do." He said, "Yes, I think so.”.

I did not see this bill until a short time ago, and that $10 a day job is for Walter F. Dickens. I was coming down to Bemidji, and should Mr. Dicken's father has a farm between Bemedji and Ridgway and I was riding on the train. He was talking to this old man, talking to the father of Walter F. Dickens, talking to a man they knew, and he said, that Dickens, I like that place down in Texas, that he was going back soon, that John Morrison was going to have a good position for him.

Just by accident I found that out and that is where it says, is put in this bill where it will give Mr. Dickens $10 a day for having turned over the general council-over to these mixed bloods.

Mr. Elston. Are you competent; have you ever been declared competent?

Mr. GRAVES. No; I am a ward of the Government.
Mr. Elston. Have you ever applied for competency?
Mr. GRAVES. No, sir.
Mr. ELSTON. Why not?
Mr. GRAVES. Because I am not in position to do so at present.
Mr. ELSTON. Why not!
Mr. GRAVES. Because I am unallotted.
Mr. Elston. And do you want to get competency?
Mr. GRAVES. No, not just at the present time.
Mr. Elston. Why not?

Mr. GRAVES. Because I do not want my people to be robbed like the White Earth Indians were robbed. We want the protection of the Government of the United States. In the council of the Red Lake Indians, December 27, 1918, they called on the Government of the United States for protection from these mixed bloods-designing mixed bloods.

Mr. ELSTON. You are a mixed blood ?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes, sir; I am a mixed blood.

Mr. Elston. Which predominates in numbers, mixed bloods or full bloods?

Mr. GRAVES. In the Red Lake Reservation ?

Mr. ELSTOŃ. Well, generally speaking; I mean the persons who are interested in this bill.

Mr. GRAVES. Well, of course, now, I can only speak for the Red Lake people.

Mr. ELSTON. How about the Red Lake Indians ? Mr. GRAVES. Well, the Red Lake Indians, I should judge, about 95 per cent

Mr. ELSTON. Of what?

Mr. GRAVES. Ninety-five per cent of those want the Government to protect them. Ninety-five per cent of these want the protection. Five per cent of those mixed bloods would sell themselves for little to the chiefs of the mixed bloods.

Mr. CARTER. How many full bloods are there?

Mr. GRAVES. Well, sir; "I can not give you that information, because there is a good deal of white blood that has been mixed in.

Mr. Elston. You do not know anything about the other people?

Mr. GRAVES. I am not able to make any statement pertaining to the other part.

Mr. ElstoN. Well, now, in just two sentences—in just a few sentences—what would you suggest to the committee; what would you say that we ought to do now? Mr. GRAVEs. The Red Lake Indians want to be strictly let alone by the mixed bloods. They want to be left alone. You can leave the Red Lake Indians out. The Red Lake Indians want no allotments, and the mixed bloods have got nothing to do with the affairs of the Chippawa Indians. The Red Lakes do not have anything to do except with the affairs of the Chippawa Indians. Mr. ElstoN. Well now, gentlemen, I understand that you have explained to your representatives about what your objections are to the bill, and that you want this bill considered very carefully. What the committee wants is information from you, and we want you to help us. Now, you have not offered any definite suggestions, but what you have said is very general. You have come here and made general objections. Of course, this is a big question and we are going to Fo carefully on it. Is there anybody else present that would like to be heard? We are giving you a full hearing, and we want to hear what you have to say. Mr. Gosli N. There is one further remark that I would like to make, and that is this: Any man that has a little Indian blood in his veins who becomes enrolled to a certain band of Indians is a member of that tribe, but is not a titleholder and, therefore, if you will investigate, you will find that a majority of them were members that were enrolled. Mr. ELSTON. We are very glad to have that statement, Mr. Goslin. Now is there anything else? If there is nothing else, and if the committee has heard everything that you have to say—you understand there will be a later hearing and we will go into this further. Mr. BEAULIEU. Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a statement. Mr. ELSTON. I do not think it would be proper to hear any outsiders, or anyone opposed to this at this time, inasmuch as this hearing was for this particular group that came here, and I think we can hear you sometime later, we can hear your statement at some other time on the matter. . The committee is not going to decide this thing in a minute and there is no use of bringing up a controversy because we do not want to have that at the present time. Mr. BEAULIEU. Why, what I had in mind was I wanted to say that perhaps you do not seem to understand Mr. ELSTON. Well be brief.


Mr. BEAULIEU. There seems to be objection to this bill for the reason that they have an old treaty claim, which is the treaty of 1889, which it conflicts with or wipes out. Now, this bill which you are discussing provides that all claims arising under any treaty where the Indian has suffered any damage shall be referred to a Court of Claims, and I think that if the gentlemen will read that bill, if someone will read it who understands it, and explains, it to them, I do not think there will be any objection. I believe the reason there is objection is because they do not understand the bill.

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