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ment of the property and the financial standing of our reservation, and after we have fulfilled this thing, then we are ready to draft a bill which will, as you say, give us a right title and a right channel to live on, but as we are down there, we are practically tied. We do not enjoy the privileges that a citizen should enjoy to a certain extent for that reason. You take the noncompetent Indian. He is handled like you would your own child; you bring him up and rear him like he was an infant. You look after him, and see that everything is provided. Why does he not enjoy those certain privileges ? Because the competent Indian has not been partial enough to look after it. You might as well say his father and mother give him the same interest that he tries to attain for himself. If he attains certain privileges and restrictions, he still wants to go as incompetent.

Mr. Elston. What are those privileges that you want?

Mr. Goslin. We came here to lay down the treaty of 1854 and ask the committee to comply with that.

Mr. Elston. In what respect does it give you rights that you are denied now? What other things does it give you that you are not given now? What is it that you want?

Mr. Goslin. If any legislation should happen to be passed, and the date of ratification of the bill would deprive us of a common title; it would deprive us of the treaty rights which would come to a final settlement according to the treaty.

Mr. Elston. Would you expect that you or your tribe alone would decide these treaty rights without referring them to the United States or State courts?

Mr. Goslin. For this reason I oppose again the judicial part of the bill. For instance, if the bill should pass, and the Indians should claim themselves competent, they are competent enough to follow such cases up with the courts, beginning with the lower court and going to the higher court. Your competents, as they call themselves, are competent enough to defend their title against such matters without getting and hiring a professional to squander their money.

Mr. Elston. How are you going to get at your rights? You can not say our treaty says so and so, and if the Government says no, or the other factions in your tribe say no, who is going to decide it?

Mr. Goslin, I say this. Take our half-breed brethern over there. Why don't they come to us and say, let us propose this bill and come to a final principle that we may work together and draw all the benefit we can derive from it. We are willing to compromise with them on those grounds, but they simply go to work and consult their own members and their friends to work for certain principles and leave the Indians out.

Mr. Elston. Were you at this council ?
Mr. GOSLIN. No; I was not.
Mr. Elston. Did you have notice?
Mr. Elston. Could you have voted if you wanted to?

Mr. Goslin. I could have voted if I got a notification that there was such a meeting.

Mr. CARss. You had no notice?
Mr. CARSS. Where do you live?

Mr. GOSLIN. Reserve, Wis.
Mr. CARSS. You are not in a Minnesota band?

Mr. Elston. Do you maintain now that 75 per cent of the Indians that live in all those reservations were not notified of this council, but that the little one-fourth got together and put over something?

Mr. Goslin. Yes, sir; I claim that 75 per cent of the Indians on the reservation were not notified for this reason, that 75 per cent of these Indians there are incompetent Indians. They post up notices, but a man that can not read or write, what does he know about a notice until he is given an explanation?

Mr. Elston. Are there not people like yourself who can read and write who can explain it to him ?

Mr. Goslin. Probably there would be one where there is a Government office. There is one posted there and maybe one at the agency. Every Indian does not got to the Indian agency or the farmer's office every day.

Mr. Elston. Did you see any of these notices after they were posted ?

Mr. GOSLIN. No, sir.
Mr. ELSTON. You knew nothing of this council ?

Mr. GOSLIN. No, sir; not until after the delegates drew up their report, then I heard of it.

Mr. ELSTON. You did not know that a meeting was to be held until after it was done, and then what they had done was told you ?

Mr. GOSLIN. Yes.

Mr. Elston. Were you on the Minnesota Reservations while this meeting was held and while the notices were posted ?

Mr. GOSLIN. No, sir.
Mr. ELSTON. You had no means of getting that?

Mr. TILLMAN. You contend that 75 per cent of the whole tribe had no notice, no actual notice, no constructive notice, or any kind of notice?

Mr. Goslin. No, sir; and it is the desire of our delegates, in passing any bill which is passed--we only ask for our reservations not to pass any bill that will conflict with any treaty prior to January 14, 1889.

Mr. COLE. Then, if these treaties were properly interpreted, your tribe would be satisfied without the passage of any legislation at all ?

Mr. Goslin. All these treaties prior to that, in the treaties of 1864 and 1842, if they were properly settled and the Government fulfilled its agreements, I am willing to take my citizenship and live under the American flag.

Mr. TILLMAN. Speaking for yourself and 75 per cent of the tribe, you claim that the half-breeds deceived you and were putting things over on you in not giving notice of these meetings. Do I understand that to be your attitude?

Mr. GOSLIN. I understand that to be the case where I come from.
Mr. CARTER. Whom do you represent?
Mr. Goslin. Lac de Orelle Reservation, Wis., Reserve, Wis.
Mr. CARTER. Were you elected by your council to come here?
Mr. GOSLIN. Yes, sir; I was elected by my people.
Mr. CARTER. Who pays your expenses down here?
Mr. GOSLIN. They pay our expenses.
Mr. CARTER. The people do?

Mr. GOSLIN. Yes.
Mr. CARTER. Are they all full-bloods in Minnesota?
Mr. GOSLIN. Full and mixed bloods on our reservation.

Mr. CARTER. They got together and selected you to come here and
agreed to pay your expenses?
Mr. Goslin. They selected me to come here and interpret.

Mr. CARTER. Did they have a meeting when they did that or how were you selected ?

Mr. Goslin. They had their council and selected me.
Mr. CARTER. Was that council a large meeting of the people ?
Mr. GOSLIN. It was a general mass meeting of the people.
Mr. CARTER. How many were there?
Mr. Goslin. There were about 60 in the first meeting, January 25.
The second meeting was held on January 28, on Tuesday, where the
agent was called up, and I was not present there at that meeting.
The following Sunday, January 31, there was a meeting again, at
which I was present. I do not know just the exact number there,
but I might say between 60 and 70 per cent of the population.

Mr. CARTER. How many are there on that reservation?
Mr. GOSLIN. One thousand two hundred.

Mr. CARTER. And you claim there were around 700 at this mass. meeting?

Mr. GOSLIN. Yes.
Mr. ELSTON. What is your business?
Mr. GOSLIN. Common labor.

Mr. ELSTON. What is the business of the gentleman who just. preceded you?

Mr. Goślin. Farming:

Mr. CARTER. What is it that you object to about this bill? What. portion of the bill do you object to?

Mr. Goslin. There are certain articles in that bill I favor, but the only thing I object to first of all is that the people that I am interpreting for claim that the bill does not come from legal sources,

Mr. CARTER. You are for the bill, then, but you just oppose the method by which the claims of the Chippewa has been presented. Is that what we understand?

Mr. Goslin. Yes, sir. I favor the bill provided that the delegates are legally appointed and have the right power to draw up such a bill.

Mr. CARTER. The delegates would have nothing to do with passing the bill. Congress has to do that. Suppose Congress would take up this bill and pass it without reference to what any of you say? Would the bill be satisfactory to you?

Mr. GOSLIN. No. I would oppose this bill now. My people came here, sent me here to look after the treaty of 1854, until the settlement is given to me, and the fulfillment of the treaty has been made to me.

Mr. CARTER. Do you claim this bill violates your treaty of 1854 ?
Mr. GOSLIN. Yes.

Mr. CARTER. Can you tell in what respect it violates it or point out how it violates that treaty?

Mr. GOSLIN. There are certain articles in the bill that would deprive us of certain titles and which would deprive the noncompetent. Indians of certain rights.

Mr. CARTER. What rights are those ?

Mr. Goslin. It would be this, that the incompetent Indians would not enjoy the same privileges as the competent Indians.

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Mr. CARTER. I understand, but can you tell us just briefly the rights it would take away from noncompetent Indians ?

Mr. Goslin. He would not have the right to allotment. The allotment of any funds derived from the allotment or from the sale of his timber would be under the control of another party, a guardian or administrator.

Mr. CARTER. It is not that way now?
Mr. Goslin. It is that way now.



Mr. Elston. Tell the committee what you want us to know.

Mr. LUFKINS. In the first place, I came to represent at least 2,500 people from the White Earth Reservation. I expect to be at the regular meeting later and at this time I do not very much like to give out something that I want to present at that time, because I am an Indian, a hunter, and I used to hunt geese. I went for a goose where there was a bunch of them; they would tell me that they were there, and I do not like to do that.

Mr. ELSTON. You might say whether you are in favor of the proposition generally presented by this delegation here to-day.

Mr. LUFKINS. I could not say that.
Mr. ELSTON. Do you want to go into details here at all to-day?
Mr. LUFKINS. Just a little.
Mr. ELSTON. Go ahead with what you want to say.

Mr. LUFKINS. In the first section of the bill—that is, the commission—I see there is a bunch of jobs in it. There is a commission of three, one to be appointed by the President of the United States, one by the Secretary of the Interior, and another by the president of the general council of the Minnesota Chippewas. There are two factions on the White Earth Reservation and two councils. Our council has been incorporated under the State of Minnesota and we have our certificate of incorporation. Of course, we have been temporarily enjoined at this time by the supreme court of the State. We do not care about this commission at the rate of $10 a day. Of course, the treaty stipulation of 1889, if you will follow that alone, there are other treaty rights that would take away from us.

Mr. Elston. What is your business?

Mr. LUFKIns. I am a laborer. I do general work on the iron range, sample ore.

Mr. Elston. Did you come down representing some other bands of Indians ?

Mr. LUFKINS. Yes. There are factions on the White Earth Reservation and there is one faction that I am sent down here from.

Mr. CARSS. For whom do you work on the Mesabi?
Mr. LUFKINS. For the Wilcox Mining Co., near Brainard.

Mr. ELŜTon. By whom were you appointed and who pays your expenses down here?

Mr. LUFKINS. I pay my own expenses.
Mr. ELSTON. Who asked you to come?
Mr. LUFKINS. The White Earth Chippewa, one of the factions.
Mr. ELSTON. At a council meeting?
Mr. LUFKINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. KELLY. Is that a majority or a minority faction?

Mr. LUFKINS. A minority faction. We absolutely have no representation in the general council.

Mr. KELLY. You are a minority and you are afraid that if one man is named on the council that you will not be considered at all?

Mr. LUFKINS. We want representation not on this commission but on the election, on the recommendation.

Mr. HAYDEN. This original treaty of 1857 was adopted by a twothirds vote of the Indians, was it not? Supposing we were to change the terms of that treaty, would you have to submit it to a vote of the people in the same way the original treaty was drawn? Would not that give you protection?

Mr. LUFKINS. There are some pending suits that are to be instituted which would conflict-null our case.

Mr. HAYDEN. You were complaining that you did not have representation in these negotiations?

Mr. LUFKINS. In those negotiations in the forming of this bill.

Mr. HAYDEN. If whatever is done by the people who negotiate the legislation must be submitted to a vote of the people, they can then pass on it and in that way get direct action on whether they approve of it or not.

Mr. LUFKINS. Yes. But you see the committee is dominated by the mixed bloods of the White Earth Reservation. We split last summer because we wanted representation. The majority rules. On the White Earth Reservation we have got to compete with automobiles and the latest methods of corrupt practices. They run 60 automobiles night and day gathering these men. An Indian, what does he know about these political wires.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. Were you at the council held on the White Earth Reservation ?

Mr. LUFKINS. Yes, sir.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. Was it held by a majority of the people there on * the White Earth Reservation ?

Mr. LUFKINS. Yes; there was probably present 600 or 700 people.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. Do you represent here the majority or minority of the people; which faction?

Mr. LUFKINS. The minority of the White Earth.
Mr. HERNANDEZ. You are the minority?
Mr. LUFKINS. On the White Earth Reservation; yes, sir.

Mr. HERNANDEZ. Then, of course, all your deliberations in the council provide that the majority shall rule, do they not? In all legislative meetings and bodies and councils the majority must rule.

Mr. LUFKINS. The majority must rule, yes; but there is a question again which I do not like to bring up at this time, and I would not like to answer it at this time. Please excuse me on that, because I want to consult them.

Mr. COLE. Do those factions have names--one of them republican and the other democratic ?

Mr. LUFKINS. No, sir; One is full bloods and the other mixed bloods. That makes the difference.

Mr. SINCLAIR. Who are in the majority ?

Mr. LUFKINS. The mixed bloods are in the majority on the White Earth Reservation. Mr. SINCLAIR. The mixed bloods rule, then.


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