tween such large companies interruptions in service would never be heard of, longer than the time consumed in throwing in a switch. The same increase in efficiency and time saving would result in our light and power companies as we saw come in the interchange of cars and improvement in roadbed and rolling stock by railroads. Fifty years ago it took about a week to go from Atlanta to New York with some six to eight changes in trains. The trip is now made in about twenty-four hours without a change of cars for the entire distance. The same comparison could be used in our telephone systems. The time has come when the public must have a broader vision in handling these questions if we keep pace with our opportunities for growth and development. We've got to get away from a local consideration of services of this kind. Far better for us that the lights we use in our homes and the power we use in our local enterprises be derived from power even hundreds of miles away from us, with such an interrelation of service as just mentioned, if by such an arrangement we have an added guarantee of continuous service. The Public Should Invest in Securities I can't believe the public will stand for a reactionary program that will certainly carry us back to crude methods, with less service and at higher rates. We may halt, temporarily, here and there over the country, but in the end electric power, as well as other utility services, is going to be carried on in a wholesale manner. Any other method is squarely in the teeth of the very fiber of our people and form of government. I have already told you there are 1,450,000 citizens of our country who have invested in the securities of the electric light and power companies of America. This number should be increased to many times the number now owning such securities. Indeed, such a new class of investors may, in the end, become the only solution of financing the present needs of our electric light and power companies, saying nothing of the future, if such companies are to keep pace in development and expansion as the public in this connection is imperative. Either the public will have to assume and practice a more friendly attitude toward capital belonging to the other fellow, or the public will have to put up the cash and from a class who have heretofore studiously avoided such investments. And this brings us face to face with the issue confronting the public utilities of the nation today. They haven't the financial strength for expansion and in many cases this came to be so from the fact that they have been required by regulatory boards. to operate on rates that were too low. This issue should be so presented to the public that it may decide for itself the manner in which such financing hereafter shall be done. If private citizens refuse to furnish the money then the public must inform the other fellow that efforts at condemnation or confiscation of his property will not be tolerated. A committee from the United States Senate has estimated that it requires, approximately, $700,000,000 to provide public utility service for each additional million inhabitants. Previous to the war it was estimated that the normal requirements, per annum, of electric railway, light and power companies was something about $500,000,000, distributed as follows: Electric railways $250,000,000, gas companies $125,000,000, electric light and power companies $125,000,000. This same committee decided that for the past four years not more than 40 per cent of such betterments had been made, making an accumulation of $1,200,000,000. By adding this sum to the $700,000,000 required for service to new buildings held in abeyance, we at once see that approximately $2,000,000,000 must come from somewhere if the demands on the public utilities for service are to be met. JOHN W. LIEB: Mr. President and gentlemen: I am sure I voice the feelings of everyone who has listened to the most interesting and edifying address of Mr. Perry when I say that we are greatly indebted to him for his splendid presentation. I would therefore move you, Mr. President, a vote of thanks to Mr. Perry for his most entertaining and instructive address, and that the Association craves his permission to publish it in the Bulletin of the Association. (The members rose and the motion was unanimously carried.) THE PRESIDENT: I still want you gentlemen to stay in this room. We have a little business to transact, and a gentleman is to speak to us, and it is your duty to stay here and listen to him. The next business is the appointment of the Committee on Memorials. To the Committee on Memorials I appoint our old-time friend, Mr. W. H. Onken, of the Electrical World. The next item of business is the appointment of a Committee on Resolutions. As the Committee on Resolutions I appoint Mr. Arthur Williams, of the New York Edison Company, who has been our Committee on Resolutions for a number of years. Gentlemen, at the Atlantic City Convention in 1919, this Convention chose as its President a man from sun-kissed California. He came here with the ambition and the energy of the great West. He showed this Association where it was running in a rut. He took it out of the rut and put it on the highway to prosperity. Any success that this administration this year has had has been by following the policies of Past President Ballard, of the Southern California Edison Company, and I now present him to you. He will present the report of the Public Policy Subcommittee on Inductive Interference. Report of the Public Policy Subcommittee on Inductive Interference R. H. BALLARD: I did a lot of talking at Pasadena last year, but I never had the nerve to order the people in attendance at the Convention to remain in the room, and I certainly admire President Insull's backbone in that respect. Our President has given me some credit for initiating some policies in connection with the work of the Association, but that same degree of backbone has been shown all through the work during President Insull's administration, and to that, more than to any change of policy, is due the great success of this year's administration. I want to make a little announcement in connection with the Nominating Committee. The Constitution now provides that the Nominating Committee shall hold open sessions, which means that any member of this Association has the right to meet with the Nominating Committee and suggest a name for any officer in the Association. I will ask the members of the Nominating Committee to meet preliminarily to canvass the situation immediately after luncheon, say about two o'clock, for a few minutes in the lobby just outside the main diningroom. Thereafter, after the sessions this afternoon of the various parallel sections, or before the session tomorrow morning, or at noon, after the adjournment of the general meeting tomorrow, there will be opportunity given to members to present their views as to nominees. The particular subject which I want to present to you in five minutes is a very important one, and is that of the policy which should govern the question of inductive interference. The engineers, through the Technical Section of this Association and engineers of the Telephone Company, have for many years been working on this subject and, so far as the engineering detail is concerned, I think we are very close to agreement. In fact, they were so close to agreement that the word was sent up from the Inductive Interference Committee of our Association that they wanted some decision as to policy, and it was that request from the Inductive Interference Committee which brought about the formation of the Subcommittee of the Public Policy. Committee on the question of inductive interfer ence. Mr. O. D. Young, Vice-President of the General Electric Company, was appointed Chairman of the Subcommittee. I am presenting this report in his behalf, as he was unable to be present at the Convention. We had a meeting in New York at which the executive officers of the Telephone Company were asked to appear, and they did appear. At that meeting three officers of the American Bell Tele phone Company were in attendance, namely, Mr. E. K. Hall, Col. J. N. Carty and Mr. Bancroft Gherardi. These gentlemen appeared on behalf of the Telephone Company, and on behalf of our Association there were present Mr. O. D. Young, Mr. R. F. Pack, of Minneapolis, Mr. Aylesworth and myself. A Joint Committee was formed to carry out this question of policy, and to the names already mentioned were added Mr. B. S. Read, President M. J. Insull, Mr. W. W. Freeman and Gen. Guy E. Tripp. At the meeting of the Joint Committee we had a very frank discussion of the whole question. We found that the suspicion on the part of the Telephone Companies regarding the activities of the power men was quite equal to the suspicion of the power men as to the activities of the telephone men. We found that the question of precedents was considered by them equally as important as by us. We found they were quite as ready to think we were putting something over as we were to think they were putting something over, but as the meeting progressed we became more frank with one another and finally realized that, after all, we are in one industry-the industry of public service-and on that basis we proceeded to try to work out some machinery which would solve this question of policy. We started, in the first place, with the matter of suspicion as to each other's attitude and intention, and entirely eradicated it from both sides, and I wish all you member companies to bear that in mind. We agreed that all of the electric light and power companies of the country should be taken at one hundred per cent as to being earnest and honest in their intentions, and we agreed that the telephone companies would be taken on the same basis. We agreed that no precedent, no matter by whom established, should act as a barrier to the solving of the question along economic lines. We agreed, as a matter of record, to employ an attorney who would work out the so-called precedents in order that they might be discussed and so as to get an understanding of where these questions of contact had arisen in the past. Following that we agreed that the engineers. should again take up the question through a Committee of Engineers from this Association, to be chosen and counseled by Mr. Pack, and a similar committee of engineers of telephone companies to be chosen and counseled by Mr. Gherardi. Such a committee of engineers to immediately work out, if possible, certain fundamentals; in other words, certain standards upon which the question might be approached, to see if it were not possible to set up something which would eliminate, perhaps, ninety per cent of the troubles which have existed in the past, leaving the other ten per cent to special consideration. We had a general discussion of the proposition without regard to the ten per cent. It was further suggested that Joint Committees. be formed in each State, based somewhat on the idea of our Geographical Divisions. That Joint Committees representing certain sections be appointed, in the various States of the Union, which would at first attempt to solve the points of difference as between the electric power companies and the telephone companies locally, and then, failing to agree, submit their conclusions or differences to this Joint Committee; in other words, instead of either or both sides going immediately to a public regulatory body or to the courts with their dirty linen, they should try to wash it themselves. The committees in the local States to act as the lower courts do, and the general joint friendly co-operation committee at the top to act as the Supreme Court, and I think something along these lines will very likely be worked out. Mr. Pack has his organization complete, and I understand Mr. Gherardi has his complete, and they are arranging for some joint meetings of these committees. The utmost earnest, honest co-operation is necessary on the part of both sides, and I feel very sure that the telephone people look at this question about in the same light as we do with our changed views. THE PRESIDENT: I see that Mr. Bancroft Gherardi, of the American Telephone & Telegraph Company, is with us, and we shall be glad to hear from him. BANCROFT GHERARDI: Once upon a time a distinguished candidate for President of the United States visited New York, and in one of his speeches referred to being in "the enemy's country." I want you gentlemen to appreciate that I do not come to this meeting with any such feeling as that. On the contrary, I know that I am here among friends, and that we are all working for the same ultimate object, to render service to the public, and to render that service, electric light and power, on the one hand, and telephone on the other, in the best and most economical manner. I am very glad to be here with you and to be able to say just a word on behalf of my colleagues, Colonel Carty and Mr. Edward K. Hall, as well as for myself, and to say that we are approaching this problem with confidence that we can reach a solution that will be fair and helpful to both parties, and with a sincere determination to reach such a solution and I know from the contact which I have had with the representatives of the National Electric Light Association that they are approaching the problem in exactly the same spirit. I think, therefore, I can assure you, as Mr. Ballard has, that we are going to find a solution which will enable us to work together and to render both services and which will reduce the problems connected with this question-it will not eliminate them-but will reduce them to comparatively simple physical and engineering problems, with the underlying policy such that each specific case can be attacked promptly and a satisfactory solution arrived at. Just one more thought, and I would like to have a chance to say it to every telephone man in the Bell System and to every electric light man in the United States, if it were possible for me to do so: It seems to me there are two points in connection with this question which are of fundamental importance. The first is, we should approach each other with confidence, and the first essential of confidence is to get to know each other; in other words, get together. We never can get any confidence by staying apart and imagining what the other fellow is trying to put over. By getting together we soon find out that each party is trying to find some way of dealing with the other on a basis which will be fair to both. The second point I would like to have everyone on both sides appreciate is that much difficulty and controversy is avoided if we get together when things are in a paper stage-it is far easier to change plans when on paper than it is to make any change in construction after the construction has been done. Gentlemen, I appreciate very deeply the opportunity of being here to speak to you, and I thank your officers for having given me this privilege. THE PRESIDENT: We certainly have had a very fine program today, and we have an equally good one for tomorrow morning's session. The meeting now stands adjourned to meet promptly at 9:30 o'clock on Thursday morning. (The meeting then adjourned.) Third General and Executive Session June 2, 1921, 9:45 A. M. THE PRESIDENT: The meeting will please come to order. The first report of the morning is the Report of the Insurance Committee, which will be pre sented by the Chairman of the Committee, Mr. S. E. Wolff, of Hodenpyl, Hardy & Co., Inc., New York. Report of Insurance Committee The Committee's predecessor was constituted as a committee of the Accounting Section of the Association. In order to widen the scope of activities, the present Committee was appointed by the President of the Association as a Special National Committee, reporting to the National Executive Committee of the Association. The duties assigned to the Committee, briefly outlined in the President's letter of appointment, were as follows: "To study the various phases of fire, liability, casualty and other insurance as they affect the members of the Association, to gather information regarding same, to receive regular reports of the Association's Insurance Expert, and to report to the Association improved methods of dealing with insurances, and, if possible, to make recommendations toward reducing the cost of insurance." Acting under this instruction, the Committee was. formulated as follows: SE Wolff, Chairman GH Bourne, Secretary A V R Coe LA Coleman A E Morphy J G Reese C B Scott FW Smith W H Blood, Jr., Insurance Expert, Conferee At the first meeting of the Committee it became apparent, almost at once, that the scope of the work outlined in the President's letter of appointment would require more than one year for accomplishment, if it were to be prosecuted with both intelligence and vigor; that many sources of information would have to be sought and many organizations consulted and that data of extensive nature would have to be acquired, compiled, tabulated, digested and presented to insurance authorities. So that the Committee concluded that it must promptly confine its program for this year to a limited number of insurance subjects. This list of subjects was determined with due regard to their relative importance to central station companies having in mind certain operating and financial considerations and the following program of activities for the current year was agreed upon: pensation and public liability insurances, with particular thought to reducing insurance costs, thus following up that part of this activity so well begun by the Insurance Committee of the Accounting Section. Second-To recommend to member companies standard general forms of endorsements for fire insurance coverage to be attached to standard policies, making such particularly applicable to the electric industry. Third: To inform member companies as to the full import of co-insurance clauses. Fourth-To publish a manual on fire and other forms of insurance for the information of member companies. Fifth: To investigate rates as applied to automobiles operated by member companies, with particular reference to rates for electric vehicles and to make recommendations thereto respective. Sixth: To present to member companies such definite information with respect to fire and other insurances as would enable said companies to have a better conception of their insurance rates and economies; also to gather, assemble, and present from time to time such information as will be beneficial to member companies in securing more advantageous rates, and impressing such companies with the importance of adequate protection and fire prevention as elements of continuity of service. Additional to the foregoing the Association's Insurance Expert, W. H. Blood, Jr., continued his activities along lines previously established by him. Pursuant to this program, the Chairman of the Committee appointed the following Subcommittees, namely: Insurance Statistics and Rates Subcommittee. By Insurance Statistics and Rates Subcommittee Questionnaires, copies of which follow, were mailed on February 23, 1921, to the full Class A Membership of the Association-approximately 1,100. Up to the writing of this report (April 15th) 294 replies have been received, of which only fifty gave the full information requested for the period. of five years; about 100 gave data for one year, and the balance either gave information of no value, or pleaded that, owing to the condition of their records, they were unable to give anything tangible. stations and contents and if necessary. make inquiry of your broker in order to obtain premium on insurance of such property. Note: If your Company carries self insurance or insurance in a mutual company, please exclude such insurance from the data given above. The figures have been tabulated, the tabulation being divided, so that if needed, the result can be obtained for each State. There will, no doubt, be many more replies received as some of the larger companies are still to be heard from. In view of this, and owing to the fact that the date of the Convention is too near to permit of a complete analysis of the figures and a full report to be made at that time, the Subcommittee recommended that their final report be deferred to a later date. To make the work of this Subcommittee of greater value, it must have reports of additional member companies. The possibilities of benefit accruing to them are so great as to warrant the full and prompt compliance of our requests for this information. It is not too much to promise that if this is done, this work alone will result in a substantial reduction in operating costs as well as better protection to investors in member companies' security issues. Upon your return home, it is urged that prompt attention be given these questionnaires. Information re Fire Insurance Note: If your Company operates gas and/ or railway Information re Workman's Compensation Insurance Official to whom correspondence concerning this sub- Address Title... General location of Member Company's operations: 1. Plan of providing indemnity A-Stock Insurance Company D-Self-Insurance 2. Limits of liability provided- B-Total for one accident $ State..... 3. Average number of 1920 1919 1918 1917 1916 employees 4. Amount of wages 5. Average rate of premium paid for 6. Amount mium pre of |