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ciples for this type of aid laid before you

in a very

effective manner for the Nation as a whole.

There are 19,888 teaching positions in the public schools of Alabama. We have reduced that number by 455 positions for the year 1943, just closed, and the school year 1943-44, in which we are now engaged. We have made no efforts to fill 455 positions because of the teacher shortage and because of the difficulties which we know we would have to fill them. That left 19,433 teaching positions which we were actually seeking to fill in the public schools. On the day public schools opened up in Alabama for the school year 194445 there were 638 actual vacancies in the 19,433 classrooms, with no teachers.

Since July 1, 1944, we have issued 5,000 temporary certificates, emergency temporary certificates, to permit people to teach in Alabama who do not meet the standard qualifications for teachers in the State, although we have never set our qualifications as high as they should be set. Approximately 1,500 of the people who hold those emergency certificates have had no college training whatever. Considerably more than 1,000 additional ones of them have had only 1 year of college training. In trying to keep the 19,433 teaching positions in the public schools of our State filled we have employed, since Pearl Harbor, 31,000 different individuals.

Senator Hill. How many did you say?

Dr. NORTON. We have employed 31,000 different individuals. There are more than 11,000 individuals who have taught in an Alabama public school since Pearl Harbor who are not now teaching anywhere in the State of Alabama, more than 11,000 of them.

The CHAIRMAN. Why was that? Did not they qualify?

Dr. NORTON. They have left the teaching profession for higher wages in industry. Of course, some have gone into the armed services, or have left as a result of one of the other reasons that teachers have for leaving the profession. The primary reason we think is that the annual average salary of teachers in Alabama is $976.

Senator Taft. Has that been raised since the war started ?

Dr. Norton. Yes; the annual salary has been raised approximately 30 percent since 1939.

Senator Hill. Doctor, could you give us what would be the average annual salary of our colored teachers ?

Dr. NORTOX. It is approximately $600 a year.
Senator HILL. That has been raised, too?

Dr. NORTON. Yes; it has been raised, on a percentage basis, much more rapidly. We are gradually closing the gap there by putting more of the new money in the lower salaries than the higher ones.

Senator Hill. The salaries of colored teachers have been raised more than the salaries of white teachers as far as the percentage is concerned?

Dr. NORTON. Yes,

Senator Hill. Closing the gap between the white and the colored teachers?

Dr. NORTON. Yes. In some of our counties in Alabama the salaries of Negro teachers have been raised 111 percent in the last 3 years. We are gradually closing that gap, so that now, on the basis of comparable training and experience, the State allotment of funds on

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equalization for teachers' salaries allows 85 percent of the whiteteacher salary schedule to the Negroes. We are gradually closing that as we get additional money with which to close the gap without tearing down the standards that we have set for the white schools, low as they are

The teacher situation, of course, is our most critical problem, but a State like Alabama has such other serious and critical problems that I want to mention, for instance, the building situation.

A recent survey of school buildings completed by the State department of education reveals that Alabama school children are inadequately housed. Of the 5,110 separate school buildings, 559 are church buildings totally unsuited to educational use and 842 others are pri-vately owned buildings that are not only inadequate for school use: but cannot be renovated economically. Many of the other 5,110 buildings were constructed prior to 1920 before much study was given to schoolhouse planning in relation to school needs, and it would not be economical to renovate these old buildings for effective use.

Senator Hill. When you say "church buildings,” just to say a church building does not give the full picture ?

Dr. NORTON. No.

Senator Hill. Those of us who spend some time in Washington think of the beautiful churches we have in this great Capital City. The churches that you speak of are largely out in the rural sections, are they not?

Dr. NORTON. That is true.

Senator Hill. They are not in any manner suited or adapted for school purposes, and the truth is they are about as poor for churches as you can find; is that right?

Dr. NORTON. That is true. They are not adapted to any use really. Some were constructed years ago as little two-story firetraps, with a lodge-hall meeting place on the second floor and a church meeting room downstairs, without any room as large as this room.

Senator Hill. And without any regard as to such things as lighting, heating, and so forth.

Dr. NORTON. That is true. More than half of Alabama's school buildings are equipped with open-type stoves only, many of which are too small to provide sufficient heat. Seven hundred and eighty school buildings are equipped with central heating plants.

Approximately 9,000 school children attend Alabama schools where no toilet facilities of any kind are provided. More than 700 schools are supplied only with surface toilets, practically all of which are in deplorable condition. About 50,000 children attend schools where hand pumps and open wells are the only source of water. More than 23,000 children are in schools where no water supply is located on the school grounds.

Of the 5,110 school buildings in the State, more than half, 2,647, are not provided with electric lights. In many of the remaining schools, good work is often impeded because of poor light.

So that the teacher shortage is not our only educational problem in Alabama, but it certainly is our most critical educational problem.

Gentlemen, I do not like to take any more of the time of the committee, unless there are some questions that you want to ask. You have had this problem adequately covered from a national standpoint.

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Senator Tart. What is the sum spent on primary- and secondaryschool education in Alabama ?

Dr. NORTON. About $32,000,000. About $11,000,000 of that is put up by the State for equalization purposes and is distributed in direct proportion to the number of children in average daily attendance and in direct proportion to the wealth of the local area.

Senator Tarr. What is the population of Alabama ?
Dr. NORTON. Something over 2,000,000.
Senator HILL. About 2,750,000.
Dr. NORTON. Yes; with this influx coming in during the war.

Senator TAFT. I have had to attend meetings of other committees yesterday and the day before, and I have to leave in a moment. I suppose there have been some figures presented on the relative income of the different States?

Dr. NORTON. Yes, sir.

Senator Hill. I will say, Dr. John K. Norton, of Columbia University, presented figures and had many graphs and charts with reference to the relative wealth and income of the different States. I want Senator Taft to finish, if he has got to go to another meeting, but I want to say this—and I want to ask you if this is not true, while you are speaking of conditions in Alabama--that Alabama stands near the top among the States in effort made ?

Dr. NORTON. Yes.

Senator Hill. To support schools, with relation to the comparative wealth.

Dr. NORTON. That is right. Thirty-two cents out of the entire State tax dollar goes to education, and out of our current school money we are paying 78 percent directly into instruction. Alabama has 2.7 percent of the Nation's children between the ages of 5 and 17 and 1.07 percent of the Nation's taxable wealth. Now, that 2.7 percent of the Nation's children between the ages of 5 and 17 and that low wealth constitutes one of our problems. But another serious problem there is the ratio of children to working-age people. Although Alabama has 2.7 percent of the Nation's children between the ages of 5 and 17, we have only 1.9 percent of the Nation's population between the ages of 20 and 64, who are the ones who must earn the wages, who create the wealth and pay the taxes to support the educational program. Therefore, it is perfectly apparent that a State like Alabama and most of the Southern States will have a disproportionately heavy load upon the relatively very few taxpaying individuals between those ages in order to provide for the greater number of children and the higher number of aged people. The commercial life of the Nation has drawn out of our State many of the people in these actually productive ages. There are approximately 500,000 people or more who have been brought up in Alabama and are at work now creating wealth, paying taxes, and contributing to the economic stability of other sections of the country than there are people who have been brought up somewhere else in the Nation and are now working in Alabama.

Senator Tart. I just wanted to know if the figures would be avail. able. I understand this $200,000,000 is to be distributed without any relation whatever to the wealth or poverty of the different States. What bothers me is that it applies to Ohio just the same as it does to Alabama. Ohio, I guess, is a State of comparatively greater wealth,

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at least we spend about eight times as much on education, and we have about three times the population of Alabama. I don't know, I haven't compared the figures, but roughly I expect it is something like that. Under this bill, we could allocate $9,000,000 or $10,000,000 of this first fund for Ohio, and it has nothing to do with equalization. Since this bill was up the last time the Ohio Legislature met. Ohio has $70,000,000 in the treasury. They have increased the teachers' salaries by passing a bill allotting about $9,000,000 for that purpose. That, of course, has gone into effect on the assumption that the Federal Government was not going to do anything. Now, we come along with this bill, which will be in addition to what the teachers have received from the State and which, apparently, was an adequate provision and generally accepted, and the teachers were all, I think, well satisfied with what was done by that extra session. Now, this bill comes along and proceeds to give them $10,000,000 more for that same purpose, which has already been taken care of by the State legislature.

Dr. Norton. I see your point, and I can certainly say if Ohio does not need the money, Alabama needs that much more.

Senator Taft. That, however, is no answer to my question.

Dr. NORTON. No. We have been facing both the need for equalization and the need to take care of the emergency. Since I started to school in the first grade I have been connected with the school emergency.

Senator Taft. The equalization provision is a discussion I did not want to go into, but in regard to this $200,000,000 distributed evenly for a specific purpose prescribed by Congress, at a time when we have a big deficit and most States have a big surplus, it seems to me it is questionable whether there is justification for it.

Dr. NORTON. Of course, the theory of that emergency program is that all of the States have an unusual and temporary emergency because of this war situation. The only difference between our State and some of the others is that our emergency is not temporary, ours seems to be a permanent emergency. The only feature about the emergency part of the bill that worries me considerably is that it expires when the war is over.

Senator Tart. I hope something may be done on equalization, but at the same time if the money is divided so it will go where it should, it would go much further. This would just move a very small way in the direction of equalization, largely because so much money is distributed to States that do not need it.

Senator MORSE. Mr. Chairman, does the record show the salary schedules of the teachers in the State of Ohio?

Senator ELLENDER. I think on the first day of the hearing the schedules of all States were put in the record, but if they have not been put in, we can have that done.

Senator MORSE. I think it is important, because the argument is going to be stressed that there are some States that are not in need of aid to education, and because I know of no State that confesses it had no need for aid to education.

Dr. NORTON. As far as the National Council of Chief State School Officers is concerned, we are convinced that an emergency does exist. Even in the States that are more liberally supporting education, they certainly have an immediate emergency because of the war situation which might be met from this source and expire when the war is over.

Senator Hill. I think the charts that Dr. John K. Norton presented on the first day show that even in the States where they have the highest salaries, where they are doing the most for education, there are still unmet educational needs this sustains exactly what Senator Morse said, that there is not any State in the Union which is really doing all that should be done for education.

Dr. NORTON. That is one reason I wanted to remind this committee that the National Council of Chief State School Officers, in recommending this action on the part of the Federal Government, is also vigorously recommending the same type of action within each State, that is, as to the extent of the equalization there.

Senator MORSE. I raised the point because the other day I specifically asked the question of the witness whether or not, if $200,000,000 is appropriated, it would constitute a waste in any State, whether or not it was his testimony that the amount that any State would get is needed. Now, if the argument is going to be that the $200,000,000 should not be voted by Congress because there are some States that have a surplus and are thereby able to meet their own educational needs, I think we ought to have a very clearly presented record on that argument. My mind is open on it, but my judgment, on the basis of what I know about education is that I shall be very much surprised if Ohio or Pennsylvania or New York or any other State has yet reached an adequate program for the support of their teachers.

Dr. NORTON. I think the charts presented by Dr. John K. Norton of Columbia University very definitely bring that out for each State.

Senator Hill. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I might say that there is no more devoted or finer public servant within the State of Alabama than the superintendent of schools of Alabama. Alabama is very fortunate in having Dr. E. B. Norton handling educational matters in the State of Alabama.

Dr. NORTON. I thank you, Senator. I might say to the committee that while Alabama cannot brag a great deal about what we have done for public education in Alabama, we can do a great deal of bragging about the caliber of our statesmen that we send to Washington.

Senator ELLENDER. The next witness will be Mrs. Mervyn H. Sterne.

Senator Hill. Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Sterne is one of our finest women in Alabama and one of our leading citizens. I want to apologize that I have got to leave at this time. As you know we have a funeral this morning, of Colonel Halsey, the late Secretary of the Senate.

STATEMENT OF MRS. MERVYN H. STERNE, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL

AID TO EDUCATION COMMITTEE OF THE WOMEN'S JOINT CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE

Mrs. STERNE. Mr. Chairman, I am serving, first, in the capacity of chairman of the Federal aid to education committee of the Women's Joint Congressional Committee, and I want to make a few brief remarks, and then present the representatives of other organizations who will speak.

Senator ELLENDER. Will you give your name in full for the record and your present position?

Mrs. STERNE. Mrs. Mervyn H. Sterne.
Senator ELLENDER. All right, you may proceed.

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