The CHAIRMAN. Has not the milking machine together with other labor-saving machinery been of assistance in enabling the dairymen to get along with less help than formerly? Mr. FITTS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. That is one of the reasons why you do not have as much help, is it not? Mr. FITTS. You could not find the help if you wanted it. The CHAIRMAN. I understood that you could not, that it had dis appeared, but it is not necessary for you to have as much help with the labor saving machinery, is it? Mr. FITTS. Why, you can handle a few more cows with the machine and with your methods of taking care of the cattle, but with what it is necessary to do to the barns to handle your cattle and to handle your milk, you have got to have a certain number of men around. If you wanted to increase your herd you could increase it, of course, and milk more cows with a machine. We keep machines on our farm, but we are not using them and have not used them for two years, but we are keeping them there, because we have to have four men to do our milking, and if a couple of those men are not there or leave, we can do the work with the machines. The cows have to be milked twice a day, whether you have got help or not, so we have got the machines, but we are not using them. Mr. SCOTT. These regulations you speak of are the regulations of the New York Department of Health, the New York City Department of Health? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. SCOTT. And they are interpreted and enforced by an inspector appointed by the Dairymen's League, or whatever organization is shipping the milk into New York and are approved by the department of health, but paid by the organization that appoints them. Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. SCOTT. In that respect the Sheffield Farms Co. or Borden Co. or any of these others are in precisely the same position as the Dairymen's League? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. SCOTT. Have you any creameries in your State or have you any knowledge about shipping to creameries and the operations of creameries? Mr. FITTS. Many of our milk stations have cream separators and ship some cream. Mr. SCOTT. Are there any regulations in regard to the character of milk that has to go to the creamery, or is there any inspection of the creamery? Mr. FITTS. The New York State requirements are that cream going into that market or milk which finally reaches New York City must be produced under the New York City regulations. Mr. SCOTT. In Canada we call a place where they make butter a creamery. Mr. FITTS. We have no butter factories in our section. Mr. SCOTT. And you are not familiar with the conditions in regard to butter factories? Mr. FITTS. No. Mr. HOLMAN. Mr. Fitts, the city of New York does have its own inspectors who go out among the dairies to a certain extent? Mr. FITTS. Yes; they inspect grade A dairies occasionally. Our field inspectors leave these inspection sheets at the plants and the New York inspector covers the plant about once a month and he goes over the sheet and if he sees inspections made which he does not think are made properly he will go on the farm and check up, and he will exclude from the inspector's chart sometimes, when the inspector has not excluded. They have not inspectors enough from New York City prepared to go out and inspect all the dairy farms, so if you as a dealer, or any dealer, wants to ship milk to New York City he has got to maintain the inspection force, or you can not have a permit to ship into New York City. The CHAIRMAN. When you deliver your milk, to whom do you deliver it? Mr. FITTS. To the Dairymen's League Cooperative Association. Mr. HOLMAN. Is there a record made or any examination made every day as you deliver it there. Mr. FITTS. Yes; the samples are taken for butter-fat each day. Once a month at least, possibly oftener, they test for bacteria and for solids, and about once a week, they give a sediment test. They take a pint of milk and run it through a cotton disk, and those discs are put out in front of the station, to see whether your milk is being produced clean or not. The CHAIRMAN. They keep a daily record of all that? Mr. FITTS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And this inspector from the city who comes around to check things up has access to those records? Mr. FITTS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And if he finds what he thinks is something wrong in the individual instance, he goes out and makes an inspection himself? Mr. FITTS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. And if he finds everything all right he probably pays no attention to you? Mr. FITTS. Pays no attention. Mr. PARKER. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ? The CHAIRMAN. What is your name please? Mr. PARKER. Cornelius Parker, representing the Milk Dealers' and Cream Dealers' Association of New England. May I ask a question? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. PARKER. Perhaps I did not get your evidence quite clearly. Do I understand that the inspection by the inspectors of the Dairymen's League is in substitution of the examination by the New York Health Department excepting as the records are checked up by their inspectors? Mr. FITTS. The New York Health Department accepts the inspections of duly licensed and accredited inspectors which the Dairymen's League has and which every milk company has, and they do the inspection work and leave their certificates with the plant where the dairy farm is located, and they are checked up by the New York Health Department inspector. Mr. PARKER. By whom are these inspectors certified? Mr. FITTS. They are certified by the New York inspectors and the New York officials, of the milk division. Mr. PARKER. What do you mean, of the city of New York? Mr. PARKER. And they are in the employ, however, of the Dairymen's League, those inspectors? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. PARKER. Not in the employ of the State of New York or the city of New York? Mr. FITTS. No; they are in the employ of the milk company. Mr. PARKER. I want to ask one other question in regard to the price of your grade B milk. Does that generally run a cent or two cents higher in New York than in Philadelphia and Boston? Mr. FITTS. I am not sure on that question. The prices in Philadelphia are set on 3.5 per cent milk, and our prices in New York are set on a 3 per cent butterfat basis at 200 miles from New York, and unless you sit down and figure them out I can not answer that question. Mr. PARKER. You would not say that they were not higher in New York City than they are in Philadelphia and Boston as an average? Mr. FITTS. I believe that we average fully as high. Mr. PARKER. Now, I want to ask you in regard to cream particularly. If cream is healthy cream with a proper bacterial content, a test of the cream at the market will show whether it is proper cream for table use, will it not? Mr. FITTS. I am not sure that it would. Mr. PARKER. You would expect to find extra care in handling cream reflected in the bacterial content, would you not? Mr. FITTS. If it was raw cream, yes; if it had been Pasteurized, it would be hard to tell. Mr. PARKER. Well, you can determine the presence of dead bugs, as they say, can you not? Mr. FITTS. Yes; I suppose so unless Pasteurization reduced the bacterial count so materially. That keeps your cream from getting sour. Mr. PARKER. That affects the lactic acid bacteria, and that is not unhealthy, is it? Mr. FITTS. It is very hard Mr. PARKER. Will you answer that question? bacteria are not an unhealthy bacteria, are they? Mr. FITTS. I do not think they are. The lactic acid Mr. PARKER. That merely affects the price of the cream and not its healthfulness, because sour cream will not sell for as much as sweet cream will sell for, is not that true? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. PARKER. Is it not true that there is a pretty keen competition for cream in the market? Mr. FITTS. There is competition in all lines of business. Mr. PARKER. And is there not pretty strong competition on the quality? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. PARKER. So that very poor cream stands a very poor chance of getting an adequate return, is not that right? Mr. FITTS. Well, that depends on the condition of your market, whether you have an oversupplied market or a short market. Mr. PARKER. Have you had any experience with the Boston health department? Mr. FITTS. No. Mr. PARKER. Or with shipping cream to Boston? Mr. PARKER. You never shipped there? Mr. FITTS. No. Mr. PARKER. You do not know about that at all? Mr. PARKER. May I ask if there is any reason under the law of the State of New York and the health rules of the city of New York why examinations could not be made of Canadian plants just exactly the same as is made in New York, excepting for the expense of making those examinations at the dairies? Mr. FITTS. If the department had the men to send out to make those examinations, I see no reason why they could not be made. Mr. PARKER. As a matter of fact, they make no such examinations in Minnesota or Ohio, do they? Mr. FITTS. They do where any cream is being shipped to New York City. Mr. PARKER. They do where cream is being shipped from Minnesota? They make examinations in Minnesota? Mr. FITTS. They do if it is being shipped to-day. Mr. PARKER. To New York City? Mr. FITTS. Yes. Mr. PARKER. They do not as far as Greater New York is concerned, make any examination, do they? Mr. FITTS. I am speaking of Greater New York. Mr. PARKER. What I mean is not New York City, the corporation and its different boroughs, but I mean the surrounding suburbs, which are not strictly a part of the city of New York. Mr. FITTS. You mean up-State cities? Mr. PARKER. Up-State cities-Mount Vernon and New Rochelle, and all those places that are outside the city limits of New York City. Mr. FITTS. Those cities have very strict regulations around in the suburbs of New York City, because the people who are in New York in business live there and they have very strict regulations. Mr. PARKER. But you do not know whether they examine in the West or not? Mr. FITTS. I do not believe they do, but I do not believe they allow that milk to sell in those cities. Mr. PARKER. That is something you have not personal knowledge of, however? Mr. FITTS. I have personal knowledge that there is no milk or cream being shipped from the West at the present time into New York City unless those plants are under inspection. Mr. PARKER. Do you know about New Jersey health regulations! Mr. FITTS. I know something about them. Mr. PARKER. And do you know whether or not they inspect in the West? Mr. FITTS. They have done very little inspection work even in the East. Mr. PARKER. And do you know about Philadelphia? Mr. PARKER. Thank you. STATEMENT OF CHARLES W. HOLMAN-Resumed Mr. HOLMAN. Yesterday morning the question was raised in the committee as to the number of cities in this country that have forms of tuberculin-test requirements. I went to the Department of Agriculture yesterday afternoon and asked them to give me such information as they had. I find that the department does not make any regular survey of these cities, but from time to time it makes inquiries, and from time to time certain cities voluntarily send in copies of their ordinances. The last date that the department made a general check up was about last August, and I have here a list of the cities designating certain grades of milk to be from tuberculin-tested cattle. In connection with this, since this was compiled, the city of Chicago, by a ruling of the health commissioner, has gone completely into the tuberculin-test class, and all milk and cream intended for table consumption is required to be from tuberculin-tested cows found to be free from the disease. This list of partial tests includes Chicago, which should now go to the other list. It numbers, as I counted it up, 89 cities. If the chairman desires the names of those cities read, I will read them, otherwise I will file it into the record. The CHAIRMAN. I think it will be sufficient to file them into the record. (The list referred to is as follows:) CITIES DESIGNATING CERTAIN GRADES OF MILK TO BE FROM TUBERCULIN-TESTED CATTLE Chicago, Ill. St. Louis, Mo. Detroit, Mich. Los Angeles, Calif. Providence, R. I. Seattle, Wash. New Bedford, Mass. Niagara Falls, N. Y. Allentown, Pa. Altoona, Pa. |