members and for distribution among the peo- been urged by the gentleman from Clinton, ple. (Mr. Sims.) This resolution had been advised Mr. KELSO said, he was in favor of the by many gentlemen of the Convention. The proposition in the main; but before binding common argument in favor of it was this: Evthemselves by any contract for the publicationery morning, and from day to day, members of the proceedings, he hoped some provision would be made with regard to postage. It occurred to him that the committee appointed under this resolution could go to the Post Mas- { ter of the city and make the necessary arrangements about the postage, so as to relieve { members of the Convention from the burthen of paying the postage from their own pockets. Unless some such arrangement could be made he considered it idle to talk about taking the papers. He offered the following amend-bates, not one man in a hundred, when the ment: "And that said committee ascertain and report to this Convention what arrangement can be made with the Post Master in this city concerning the postage and the payment thereof, on such letters, papers, documents, &c., as may be sent to and from the officers and members of this Convention, during its session." Mr. MORRISON of Marion accepted the amendment. would like to review what might be passing before them; and by the proposed arrangement each morning they could see precisely what had been done on the preceding day. There was an additional argument. It was provided by law that the deliberations of this Convention, in the shape of a new Constitution, should be submitted to the people for their approval or rejection, and if the Convention should go on and publish nothing but the volume of de time for its submission should come, would be at all informed with regard to what had been done in connection with the changes and modifications of the existing Constitution; whilst, on the other hand, if they were to take such newspapers as would print the daily reports of their proceedings they would go abroad amongst the people as their work progressed, and give them opportunities by memorial or petition to make such suggestions with reference to Mr. SIMS said, he would like to know by changes and general principles as would aid what authority the Convention could take them in their work, and materially diminish newspapers in this way and send them off their responsibility. But there was another through the mail by the cart-load, and throw matter: Should they refuse to purchase these the expense upon the Treasury. He would papers, the publishers could not afford to incur like to know what amount of light these news- the expense of publishing the lengthy daily repapers would throw out. Not one citizen of ports, or even an intelligible condensation of the State, out of ten, would ever see one of them. But past experience assured them that them. He contended that the operation of the they would publish the reports at as cheap a resolution would be partial. He knew that the rate as possible. The Legislature for twenty Legislature, some years ago, were in the habit years past had taken this course, and the peoof buying and distributing newspapers, but the ple had sent men back here, year after year, practice, he believed, had gone down on ac- who had constantly advocated this course. He count of the objection that he had stated. But believed, also, the people every where in the where, he would ask, was the law to authorize State were in favor of it, except it might be, this thing on the part of the Convention? He as the gentleman had affirmed, in the county knew that the Legislature had authorized the of Clinton. He considered that this was not, members of the Convention to receive three by any means, an expensive mode of giving dollars per day, as a compensation for their at- correct intelligence to the people. He was tendance, but there was no more authority of aware that there was no law to authorize the law for the purchase of newspapers for the specific appropriation, only that there was a Convention, than there was for the payment general fund appropriated to be used for defrayof the expense of boarding. He knew that the ing whatsoever expense might be necessarily people where he resided were opposed to this incurred. He held the doctrine that this Conpractice,not that they were wanting at all in liber-vention was sovereign; that they were the peoality or a disposition to patronize the press,ple, and had a right to do, in a reasonable manbut because they were opposed to all uselessner, everything that the people could do, were expenditures; because they knew that the State was in debt, and because they believed that, like every honest man, the government should pay all its just debts. For these reasons they had instructed him to employ his influence toward clipping off and cutting down every useless public expenditure, and he was determined to go for this principle heart and hand. Mr. MORRISON of Marion, said that as the mover of the resolution, he felt it incumbent upon him to answer the objections which had they here in our places. He held that the Convention had the right to call upon the Treasurer for an amount sufficient to defray every necessary expense of the body, even if it should require a hundred thousand dollars beyond the amount appropriated by the Legislature. He could not think that so intelligent a gentleman as the Delegate from Clinton would be willing to light his candle and put it under a bushel. He thought that every act here should be as open as the day to all the people. Mr. SIMS seid, he did not wish to be under Mr. KENT suggested, that the difficulty might be obviated, in part, by requiring one of the publishing establishments to distribute all the papers. stood as opposed to taking newspapers, but he Assembly, for the reason that members had to meant to say that because we get three dollars send round, every day, a new list to the puba day, which enables us to eat and drink well lishers' office. He would be in favor of any while here, that is no reason why we should arrangement by which members could send tax the people for our newspapers or our post- their packages directly to the post-office. age. He was not for taking money out of the treasury in this manner. He thought it might be better applied to the payment of the public debt, which he hoped would be soon in such a course of payment that we could see a clear sky. But even if we were out of debt, had we not occasion to foster common schools? He considered that the economy of the government should be as rigid as that of a man on his farm. He had a resolution which he desired to offer by way of amendment. Mr. READ, of Clark, said, that the post-master had refused to receive them in that way. Mr. KENT. He did not refuse last winter. Mr. MORRISON, of Marion, asked and obtained the unanimous consent of the Convention, to add to his resolution the following clause: And that said committee report to this Convention the result of their arrangements, for approval or rejection. The resolution, as amended, was adopted. Messrs. Morrison, of Marion, Kent, Colfax, On motion of Mr. EDMONSTON, The PRESIDENT said, the gentleman's amendment could not now be entertained. Mr. BASCOM said, he came here pledged to send back all the papers and documents which he could procure. He had on his desk the names of two hundred of his constituents, who were desirous of knowing what the Conventioning gentlemen said committee: were doing. They were men who took an interest in the subject which brought the Convention together, and they wanted information of their doings. It would be impossible for him to send to all these persons at his own expense. He concurred with the gentleman from Marion (Mr. Morrison) in the opinion that there was no portion of the people in this State, except, perhaps, the county of Clinton, who would not be happy to receive the reports of the proceedings of the Convention. He had Resolved, That no part of the present Connever heard, in his part of the State, any com-stitution of Indiana, nor any proposed amendplaints about receiving too many papers; on ment thereto, shall be referred to any committhe contrary, the complaint, as far as he had tee other than the committee of the whole, unheard, was, that they did not get enough-that til the same has been considered and approved their members were delinquent. The people by the Convention as proper to be inserted in were willing that the money of the public trea-and made a part of the new or amended Constisury should be used for this purpose. Mr. SMITH, of Scott, said, it occurred to him that the post-master of the city must act according to law, and that he could make no such arrangement as was proposed. As to taking the papers, he was perfectly willing to do that, and he could say that the people from his part of the State would be glad to receive them. According to the law, the postage must { be pre-paid, unless sent from the publishers' office. But from the terms of the resolution, it seemed to him that the Convention was to make some arrangement for the payment of the postage, and his object was to enquire whether it was intended that this postage should be paid out of the treasury or out of the pockets of members? or whether the papers were to be sent from the publishers' office? Mr. READ, of Clark, said, he was in favor of the resolution, and had always been in favor of taking and distributing papers; but there had been a change in the post-office laws, interfering with this matter, so that it had come to be almost wholly neglected by the General AFTERNOON SESSION. ORDER OF BUSINESS. Mr. HALL offered for adoption the following resolution : tution. Mr. HALL said, his object in offering this resolution was to arrive at some point in relation to the manner in which business should come before the Convention. A committee had been appointed on Monday for the purpose of preparing rules for the government of the body, and it was thought to be a part of the duty of that committee to recommend the number and character of the standing committees. He proposed this resolution as part of the ground upon which that committee might predicate their action. There were several propositions before the Convention in relation to the manner in which business should be brought up for consideration, and there were objections to all of them. He had taken this resolution from the proceedings of a late convention of an adjoining State, which he thought to be better than any other which he could select. It proposed that all general principles which came up to be considered in the formation of a constitution, should be considered in committee of the whole before they were referred to any subordinate committee-it being more espe- of subjects to the committee of the whole, did cially the business of subordinate committees not always induce a great waste of time. to arrange the details of business than to settle Mr. EĎMONSTON observed, that with regeneral principles; for example, there was the gard to the amendment, he would take occasion proposition that all officers shall be elected by to say, that he saw no necessity for another the people. Could any man think of inserting resolution upon the subject embraced in it, since that proposition in the Constitution before a the committee on rules were bound to report decision was had upon it in committee of the the number of standing committees. Then whole Convention? But after discussion and why encumber the journal with such proceeddecision by the whole Convention, it would beings? He desired to say one word with regard proper to refer the proposition to the appropri- to the resolution of the gentleman from Gibate sub-committee, to prepare the matter inson, (Mr. Hall.) He could see no necessity for detail. Much time would be gained in this way, according to his opinion; because, after the sense of the Convention in committee of the whole had been taken, the sub-committee would have only to shape the proposition and prepare it for a place in the Constitution. But if the proposition should be first referred to a sub-committee, it must afterwards come before the Convention in the same manner as an original proposition. He had taken his resolution from the proceedings of the convention of a sister State, and it struck him with force, as a better proposition to facilitate business than any which had yet been proposed here. The Convention could not have the benefit of the discussions in the sub-committees, and the time taken up in these discussions would be camparatively lost. But in committee of the whole, each member would have a chance to express his opinion, and to give his vote, upon every proposition; and after that the several propositions would be ready for the action of sub-committees, which would be merely to perfect them in all their details. Mr. READ of Clarke proposed a resolution similar to that offered by Mr. READ of Monroe. He then said, he was satisfied that whatever time might be occupied in preliminary discussions in committee of the whole, would be lost to the Convention. He preferred that the standing committee should be appointed, and the Constitution blocked out by them, and reported to the Convention, and then to let these reports, as they come in, be referred for consideration to the committee of the whole. So far as legislative matters were concerned, a committee of the whole had scarcely been known in this Hall the last five years; not two hours of all that time had been occupied here in committee of the whole. It had been found that after debate for several days upon a proposition in committee of the whole, it would have to return to the House, and there the very same proceedings would have to be gone over again. If it were not that the Constitution provides that all questions embracing matter connected with revenue shall be considered in committee of the whole, he could almost say that that committee was useless in legislation, and he appealed to the experience of old members of the Legislature to say, whether the reference referring the consideration of every question which might be presented to the committee of the whole. The chief objection against this course, to his mind, was that the action of the body in committee of the whole, was never journalized. He supposed when any gentleman introduced a proposition, it ought to be journalized, that it might be laid before his constituents. For this reason he should oppose the resolution. He supposed that the committee on rules would report the number, and designate the character of the standing committees; upon which the Convention would afterwards take its own action, and adopt, reject, or amend the proposition. Mr. READ of Clark said, that the only difference between the committee which he proposed to constitute, and the committee on rules was, that the members of the latter committee were not taken equally from the various parts of the State, whereas the members of the com{mittee which he proposed would be. Mr. BORDEN, (in his seat.) They are taken one from each judicial circuit. Mr. MAGUIRE said, he would suggest that a resolution similar, but involving rather more than the amendment of the gentleman from Clark, (Mr. Read,) was offered the other day, by the gentleman from Monroe, (Mr. Read.) It seemed to his mind not strictly in order to have two propositions of the same nature pending at the same time. The proceeding might be in order; he did not pretend to say that it was not, nor had he any objection to the proposition of the gentleman from Clark; but the proposition of the gentleman from Monroe, being a little more complete, he should give it the preference, and intended to support it. Mr. READ of Clarke said, he was aware of the pendency of the proposition of the gentleman from Monroe; but apprehending that the proposition of the gentleman from Gibson (Mr. Hall) might succeed, and so supersede the former proposition, he had thrown in his amendment. Mr. DOBSON said, the gentleman from Allen (Mr. Borden) had offered a proposition which had been adopted, and under which there had been created a committee on rules. The gentleman from Monroe (Mr. Read) had offered a proposition for a separate committee to designate the standing committees. It had amendment offered by the gentleman from Clark, while he made no objection to the proposition of the gentleman from Monroe. It made little difference with him, which should be adopted; but, since the former was under consideration, he would like to see it adopted. The PRESIDENT declared the proposition of the gentleman from Clark to be out of order, under the thirty-second rule for the government of the last House of Representatives. Mr. BORDEN explained, that the resolution authorizing the appointment of the committee on rules, was in substance the same which he had read from the proceedings and debates of the Kentucky Convention. He derived the intimation that had been made, out of doors, that the committee on rules was to swallow up all other committees, and said that nothing of the kind had been thought of. He said he understood the duty of that committee to be to compile something like rules for the government of the proceedings of this body, but he been thought by some, that the committee under the resolution of the gentleman from Allen, was charged not only with the matter of reporting rules for the government of the Convention, but that they should also report the number, and designate the character of the standing committees. Herein, as it occurred to him, consisted all the difficulty. For himself, he supposed that both the proposition of the gentleman from Monroe, and the proposition of the gentleman from Clark, were entirely unnecessary. He was gratified, however, to see them brought forward, because the action of the Convention upon them would settle this difficulty. He was gratified, also, to see the proposition of the gentleman from Gibson, though he was opposed to it, because he desired the whole of the proceedings here to be open to all the people, which could not be the case with proceedings in committee of the whole. Besides, if they were to go into committee of the whole, with everything, they would have no occasion for standing commit-perceived that the committee on rules in the tees. He thought that every subject should first be considered by the standing committees; and then the proposition which they might report could either at once be considered and disposed of by the committee, or referred to a commit- { tee of the whole. This was a question which should be determined, one way or the other, soon. Being himself named upon the committee on rules, he would be glad to have an expression of the sense of the Convention upon it, in order that they might know how to act. Mr. NAVE said, he thought it could scarcely be possible that gentlemen were ready to determine that no proposition should be referred to any subordinate committee. If they were to decide this question in the affirmative, they might as well neglect altogether, the appointment of standing committees. If he understood the proposition of the gentleman from Gibson, nothing was to be voted upon or reported by any committee, except what the Convention had first considered; the Convention was to reserve to itself the power to decide upon every thing first, as in committee of the whole. If this course were to be taken, it was his opinion that the business of the session could not be terminated in three months. He considered it the better course to refer distinct propositions to separats committees, and after they report, let the Convention act upon their report, as in committee of the whole. He would like to know who first discovered the wisdom of this proposition, depriving the Convention of the liberty of sending anything to a committee. It must have originated in the State of Kentucky, where everything was built up and sustained by stump speaking. He conceived the proposition to be contrary to the genius of our institutions-antagonistic to the free spirit of investigation; he was, therefore opposed to it. He was in favor of the Kentucky Convention, had reported the num{ber of the standing committees. For himself, he would prefer that this matter should be referred to some other committee, especially since the proposition of the gentleman from Monroe, had been offered. This committee would naturally feel a delicacy about reporting the num{ber of standing committees, without special instruction. He referred briefly to the immediate necessity for the formation of various standing committees. The proposition of the gentleman from Gibson, was, first to refer the consideration of evrey proposition to the com{mittee of the whole; another gentlemen had proposed the appointment of a committee to be composed of seventeen or eighteen members, and that all matters should be referred to it. Another gentleman's position was, that there should be no more than three standing com{mittees. Mr. PETTIT interposing, said, that the gentleman was mistaken. He did not propose that there should be no more than three committees. Mr. BORDEN (continuing) asked why it was considered improper for him to propose to raise more. There are, said he, a number of conservative gentlemen here, who like the present Constitution-who think it a very good one, and who would like to make it the groundwork of action, by taking it up in articles or sections, and proceeding to improve and amend, adopt or reject them. These gentlemen might very properly go into committee of the whole, with their work. But there was another portion of the Convention, he said, with whom he himself stood, who did not think the old Constitution a very good one. A majority of the Convention had come up here from constituents who demanded important changes in that instrument; and this was the reason why they thought the whole subject ought to be divided, appropriate sub-committee to arrange the prinand appropriately distributed amongst several ciple in its details. But according to the rule standing committees, with the view of intro- preferred by the gentleman from Hendricks, ducing such amendments as might be deemed the proposition would be first referred to a subnecessary. He desired the most mature delib-committee-that committee would report upon eration on every division of the subject; first, it to the Convention. After that the Convenbefore the standing committees, and then in{tion would have to decide upon the principle, in committee of the whole Convention. He relied upon the standing committee for the most important duties. He recollected a gentleman speaking to him of the Louisiana Constitutional Convention, which met several years ago, in April, at a small town somewhere in the interior of the State; and in the warm weather, rather than occupy their convention room, they were in the habit of going out by committees into the adjoining groves to hold their consultations. Reclining there in the shade, they would talk over the business before them; and, he was assured by the gentleman, that some of the best features of the Louisiana Constitution were proposed and drawn up in this way; and that when, afterwards, they spent several months in the city of New Orleans, where they were attended by Stenographers, with ready nipped pens, every thing was done for Buncombe, and nothing could be affected for the people, worthy of the occasion that brought them together. and if the principle were rejected in whole or in part, the work of the sub-committee would be useless. According to his notion, it would be a waste of time to take this course. It was his proposition, that the opinion of the Conven{tion upon every principle should be first had in committee of the whole, in order that the standing committees might know distinctly how to act. Mr. EDMONSTON said, he could not see the force of the reasoning of the gentleman from Gibson. Was it not the gentleman's proposition, first, that every subject should be referred to the committee of the whole Convention, then to be returned to the Convention, and then to be referred again to the standing committees ! The PRESIDENT. The Chair understands that a subject may or may not be referred. The Secretary, if the gentleman desires it, will read the resolution. The resolution was accordingly read by the Secretary. Mr. EDMONSTON said, that if he understood the meaning of words, the resolution proposed that, after the discussion of a proposition in committee of the whole, it was to be return standing committee. He was unable to make anything else out of it; and this he considered would be occupying more time than there was any necessity for. He preferred the practice by which the Convention might refer any part of the Constitution to a standing committee, and instruct them particularly in relation to it; for when a committee received instructions from the Convention it became their duty to act according to those instructions. Mr. HALL said, that he was one of the committee appointed by the Chair, to aid in drafting the rules; but he was totally unacquainted with the reasons which induced the appointment of that committee. He confessed that he neither understood the resolution under which the committee was appointed, nor the explanation justed to the Convention, and then referred to a given. The gentleman from Hendricks (Mr. Nave) seemed to think that under the resolution which he (Mr. H.) had offered, they were to dispense with everything like the labor of standing committees. The gentleman was wholly mistaken; such was not the object, nor the language of the resolution. The object was that no subject should be referred to any standing committee, until after it had been discussed in committee of the whole. It was certainly contemplated by all, that there should be several sub-committees appointed by the Convention, for the purpose of taking the various matters into consideration, after they should have been considered in committee of the whole. He was not wedded to any particular proposition, but this discussion had only the more convinced him of the necessity of the rule he had suggested. He gave an instance of its operation: the people of the county of Gibson, whom he represented here, had been in convention upon the subject of amendments to the Constitution, and one of their resolutions of instruction to him was, to recommend the proposition that the Legislature should prohibit lotteries in this State; now, this proposition, under the rule he had suggested, would be referred, first, to the committee of the whole, and after their action in reference to the principle, it would be referred next to the This, it seemed to his mind, was the more correct, and it certainly was the shortest way of doing business. By the new rule proposed, the same ground might have to be fought over as many as two or three times upon every proposition. Mr. PETTIT said, he did not intend to delay the business of the Convention, and he would detain them but a very few minutes. Before he sat down he thought he should move to lay the subject upon the table, with the view of taking up the resolution offered by him on yesterday and the amendment of the gentleman from Monroe (Mr. Read,) with reference to the transaction of business. He doubted not that the design of the gentleman from Gibson was a good one. If it had been his design that no subject should be reported upon until after the principle had been discussed and |