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Now, just one word relative to the bill itself. I understand that this bill is necessary for a transfer of property since the hospital is located on land that is controlled by the National Park Service and the Department of the Interior which has never been withdrawn from public domain, and, therefore, a special act of Congress is required to convey the property to the State of Arkansas either by gift, lease, or any other way.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, it couldn't be disposed of as surplus property.

Mr. RUSSELL. No, sir. It is still public property.

As far as the bill itself is concerned, there is one amendment that I would suggest, and that is relative to the restrictions on the use of the property by the State of Arkansas. The bill, as written, provides that these restrictions will remain in effect forever. On nornal surplus property, I think, the maximum is for a period of 20

years.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, what you mean is as the bill is written now, it is deeded to the State in perpetuity, with no limitation. Mr. RUSSELL. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. So long as it is used for this purpose.

Mr. RUSSELL. And I would suggest that it be changed to a period of 10 to 20 years, at which time

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the reason for changing that? You suggest a change. For what reason?

Mr. RUSSELL. I think the basic reason would be-none of the other surplus property is handled that way. The maximum is 20 years, which means that whoever is in charge of it, and in this instance it would be the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, at the end of the 10- to 20-year period then Arkansas could use it as it sees fit and the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare would be withdrawn from it.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, what you are proposing is the restrictions be withdrawn at the end of 20 years.

Mr. RUSSELL. That is right. And then

The CHAIRMAN. Where Arkansas has complied with the conditions imposed by the bill, for a period of 20 years, then the restrictions no longer apply.

Mr. RUSSELL. Then at some such time it might be as we go along that further extension and improvement might be wanted to be made and Arkansas might want to borrow money, float bonds or something, on the property itself, and it would not be able to do it unless it owned the property outright.

The CHAIRMAN. My recollection is that one of the departments suggested a similar amendment. The Bureau of the Budget has made such recommendation.

Mr. RUSSELL. I think the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare did the same thing.

Mr. REYNOLDS. It is incorporated in the proposed substitutes. Mr. RUSSELL. Mr. Chairman, that completes my statement, unless you or someone else has any questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Curtis. How many buildings are involved?

Mr. RUSSELL. Thirty-six total buildings involved in the property.

I might bring in here that the Department of the Interior, the National Park Service desires the residence in which the Park Superin

tendent now lives, two duplexes, and the three garages that go with

those properties. We have no objection to that.

The CHAIRMAN. That property should be excluded from this bill. It is one of the proposed amendments.

Mr. RUSSELL. We have no objection to that, and the only point is, should that be written into the bill or should it also be left up to negotiation with the Department of the Interior and Army, because we interpose no objection to the Park Service having those buildings. The CHAIRMAN. I think it may well be inserted in the bill.

Senator CURTIS. And how many acres of land?

Mr. RUSSELL. Approximately 25 acres, less the 3.5 acres that the National Park Service wants to separate from it.

The CHAIRMAN. But this exemption would be about 32 acres out of the 25.

Mr. RUSSELL. I want to be sure that this bill includes the only property that is actually owned by the Army, which is that property lying between Cottage Street, Reserve Avenue, Pleasant Street, and Spring Street.

The CHAIRMAN. How much acreage is that?

Mr. RUSSELL. I can't tell from this. It is a part of the old Eastman Hotel property.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that where the powerhouse is?

Mr. RUSSELL. That is where the powerhouse was. There is nothing left there now but smokestacks, as far as the powerhouse is concerned. But there are some permanent-type buildings. The quartermaster buildings, and so forth, that would be ideally situated for a shelter workshop. It is about the only level land there.

The CHAIRMAN. The Ariny is never going to use it any more.

Mr. RUSSELL. I think not. Right at the present time it is being used to some extent by the Army Reserve, and until, of course, we can go into full operations, we would be perfectly happy for the Army Reserve to continue to use it, but we want to be sure that that is included because that is the only ideal place up there for the development of a workshop.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it included now, as the bill is written?

Mr. RUSSELL. I would presume so, but I would want to check on that.

The CHAIRMAN. We will have the staff check on that.

Mr. RUSSELL. It is this property right here [indicating]. Here was the old Eastman Hotel, which has been torn down and a Federal building is being constructed at this point and this is what we are talking about.

Senator GRUENING. I would like to ask one question.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gruening.

Senator GRUENING. What types of changes, how extensive would the remodeling be, to make the hospital suitable for your rehabilitation?

Mr. RUSSELL. Very little, Senator. It would be primarily on the inside of the building. There are seven long open wards the full length of the main nine-story building.

The CHAIRMAN. It is 32 by 175 feet, I believe.

Mr. RUSSELL. Yes. There would have to be some alterations made inside those, partitions, and so forth, for separating sleeping quarters for the severely disabled, wheelchair and paraplegic cases, because we would not want them in the open-bed wards. In some of them we would need to initiate some small training areas in, say, radio and watch repair, and that type of thing, so those people would not have to go outside that building. So the changes themselves would be very, very minor and would be more the installation of partitions and that type of thing.

The major needs in that area would be the purchasing of additional training equipment, which we estimate would run around $250,000. Senator GRUENING. Would the cost of that be divided between the Federal Government and the State?

Mr. RUSSELL. We think we can get Hill-Burton funds for that purpose, which is $1 State and $2 Federal.

Senator GRUENING. One more question.

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me, I believe they would have to construct some ramps for these people.

Mr. RUSSELL. Probably some overhead ramps for the wheelchair cases that do have to go out because the location of the land is all uphill.

Senator GRUENING. Let us suppose a given State which perhaps had less facilities for rehabilitation than you have, wanted to send an individual there. What would be the terms which would be made for the treatment of that individual? Do you have any idea as yet, or is that something which would have to be determined in the future?

Mr. RUSSELL. Well, it would depend on what that individual needed, and I think we would have to work up a per diem cost and then assess that State agency just the share that Arkansas was contributing so long as the Federal Government was participating, because Federal money is all of our money, not just Arkansas.

Senator GRUENING. But it would be open to patients from every State of the Union.

Mr. RUSSELL. That is right. Physical therapies, training, evaluation, diagnostic evaluations, workshop evaluations, and if the independent living legislation is passed, the work in that.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this: It seems to me what would be fair for a patient from another State would be what it is actually costing Arkansas for its own patients for the same treatment?

Mr. RUSSELL. That's right.

The CHAIRMAN. So long as Federal money is being contributed, because I don't see the Federal Government would be interested in seeing that a fellow across the State line over in Texas, Oklahoma, or Louisiana was entitled to the same treatment and that it cost no more for a citizen of Louisiana or a Texan to get the treatment than one in Arkansas.

Mr. RUSSELL. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that would have to be worked out.

Senator CURTIS. Would provision be made for those patients who can well pay their own way also be admitted?

Mr. RUSSELL. Yes; and for insurance companies. The compensation carriers, workmen's compensation commissions, and so forth,

that wanted evaluations; the labor unions have gone into that quite a bit. Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. built two rehabilitation centers of their own, because there were not any they could send their people to, and they would be happy to keep them in this section of the country rather than attempting to send them to Boston, or some place else, because they still do not have adequate facilities to take care of everyone that is disabled that they cover in insurance carrying. So there would be quite a bit of that. Probably-I don't know-15 to 20 percent of the client load would be from that type of operation.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Russell. I wish you would stay around.

General Hays, will you come around, please, sir?

General Hays, Surgeon General, Department of the Army.

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. SILAS B. HAYS, SURGEON GENERAL, U.S. ARMY

The CHAIRMAN. General Hays, you and I have had some conferences about the Army-Navy Hospital in Hot Springs, Ark., in days past, have we not?

General HAYS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you will agree with me that during the past 4 or 5 years we have made a diligent search in an effort to find some other agency of Government for which this facility, the services of this facility, were suitable, have we not, so as to avoid closing it and putting it in a state of deactivation.

General HAYS. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, General. You take it from there. You know what this bill is about, and I am sure it has been discussed with you thoroughly. You heard Mr. Russell testify this morning. You take it from there now and tell us what you think about it.

General HAYS. All right, sir. The Department of the Army has been designated as the representative of the Department of Defense for this legislation, and I represent the Department of the Army for that purpose.

I have a prepared statement which I can file

The CHAIRMAN. The statement will be received and printed in the record at this point.

All right, General. I wish you would highlight it for us. (The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. SILAS B. HAYS, U.S. ARMY, CONCERNING S. 1616, a BILL TO DIRECT THE SECRETARY OF THE ARMY TO CONVEY THE ARMY AND NAVY GENERAL HOSPITAL, HOT SPRINGS NATIONAL PARK, ARK., TO THE STATE OF ARKANSAS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Maj. Gen. Silas B. Hays, the Surgeon General, Department of the Army. The Department of the Army has been designated as a representative for the Department of Defense for this legislation. I represent the Department of the Army for that purpose.

I have a brief prepared statement which I would like to present to the committee.

The proposal authorizes the Secretary of the Army to convey the Army and Navy General Hospital buildings and land without consideration to the State of Arkansas for use as a vocational rehabilitation center or for other public health or educational purposes. Such property and equipment located in the hospital which are necessary to the foregoing purposes may also be transferred. The bill

also provides for the manner in which the property is to be conveyed, including the usual reversionary clauses.

In various legislative hearings before the Congress, the Department of the Army has expressed its position that the hospital is excess to its needs. Other Federal agencies have considered the hospital in the immediate past and concluded they have no need for this facility.

Several months ago, the State of Arkansas enacted a law permitting the State to accept the property. The purpose of this enactment is to operate the facility as a rehabilitation center, with assistance from the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

The hospital was established by result of the Appropriation Act of 1882, which apropriated $100,000 for the erection of the Army and Navy Hospital on the Government reservation at or near Hot Springs, Ark. The reservation referred to consists of lands belonging to the National Park Service. As the land is not disposable under the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act, it is necessary for Congress to authorize its conveyance by law.

Because of the foregoing, the Department of the Army, on behalf of the Department of Defense, interposes no objection to the above-mentioned bill.

The exact fiscal effects of this legislation are not known to the Department of Defense. As previously stated to various Appropriations Committees, closure of the hospital will result in a certain savings insofar as part of the operating costs of the hospital are concerned.

It is my understanding that the Bureau of the Budget has no objection to the position I have just stated.

I have appreciated this opportunity of appearing before the committee and shall be happy to answer any questions you may have on this bill.

General HAYS. The Department of the Army has no objection to this bill. I have, within the last day or so, become acquainted with three proposed amendments to the bill that the Bureau of the Budget has suggested and which appear on page 4 of the staff memorandum. While the Department of the Army hasn't had an opportunity to study these amendments. I can see no objection that we would have to any of the three amendments.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, General, would you do this for us-in the meantime, I don't propose to close these hearings today. I am going to keep them open for a few days, for certain reasons, and if upon further study, if you find there is any objection to these suggested amendments from the standpoint of the Army, will you communicate with us and let us know and I will place your objections in the record. General HAYS. If we have any objections, I will let you know by next Monday.

The CHAIRMAN. If we hear nothing from you, we will assume you have no objection.

We have the original bill before us now. The amendments will be considered.

General HAYS. The only other thing that I might mention-I think I understood Mr. Russell to say that he would like to have included in the bill the piece of property which is across the street from the main hospital.

The CHAIRMAN. The property across the street, was that originally a part of the Eastman Hotel property, or was it a part of the hospital property?

General HAYS. It was purchased at the same time as the Eastman property by the Army in the 1940's. It consists of 1.43 acres.

The CHAIRMAN. If I may interrupt there for the record, and for Senator Curtis, the Eastman property we speak of was a hotel across the street from the hospital that the Government purchased during World War II, so as to enlarge the capacity of this hospital, and this

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