National Legislature," were postponed. The other provision in the clause passed, nem. con.

202

The fourteenth resolution, requiring oaths from the members of the State Governments to observe the national Constitution and laws, being considered,—

Mr. SHERMAN opposed it, as unnecessarily intruding into the State jurisdictions.

Mr. RANDOLPH considered it necessary to prevent that competition between the national Constitution and laws, and those of the particular States, which had already been felt. The officers of the States are already under oath to the States. To preserve a due impartiality they ought to be equally bound to the National Government. The national authority needs every support we can give it. The Executive and Judiciary of the States, notwithstanding their nominal independence on the State Legislatures, are in fact so dependent on them, that unless they be brought under some tie to the National System, they will always lean too much to the State systems, whenever a contest arises between the

two.

Mr. GERRY did not like the clause. He thought there was as much reason for requiring an oath of fidelity to the States from national officers, as vice

versa.

Mr. LUTHER MARTIN moved to strike out the words requiring such an oath from the State officers, viz. "within the several States," observing, that if the new oath should be contrary to that already taken by them, it would be improper; if coincident, the oaths already taken will be sufficient.

On the question for striking out as proposed by Mr. L. MARTIN,-Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, aye-4; Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no-7.

Question on the whole Resolution as proposed by Mr. RANDOLPH, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-6; Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, no-5.23

The Committee rose, and the House adjourned.

TUESDAY, JUNE 12th.

In Committee of the Whole,-The question was taken on the fifteenth Resolution, to wit, referring the new system to the people of the United States for ratification. It passed in the affirmative,-Massachusetts, Pennsylvania,* Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, aye-6; Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, no-3; Delaware, Maryland, divided.204

Mr. SHERMAN and Mr. ELLSWORTH moved to fill the blank left in the fourth Resolution, for the periods of electing the members of the first branch, with the words, "every year;" Mr. SHERMAN observing that he did it in order to bring on some question.

Mr. RUTLEDGE proposed "every two years."

Mr. JENIFER proposed, "every three years;" observing that the too great frequency of elections ren

* Pennsylvania omitted in the printed Journal. The vote is there entered as of June 11th.

dered the people indifferent to them, and made the best men unwilling to engage in so precarious a service.

Mr. MADISON Seconded the motion for three years. Instability is one of the great vices of our republics to be remedied. Three years will be necessary, in a government so extensive, for members to form any knowledge of the various interests of the States to which they do not belong, and of which they can know but little from the situation and affairs of their own. One year will be almost consumed in preparing for, and travelling to and from the seat of national business.

Mr. GERRY. The people of New England will never give up the point of annual elections. They know of the transition made in England from triennial to septennial elections, and will consider such an innovation here as the prelude to a like usurpation. He considered annual elections as the only defence of the people against tyranny. He was as much against a triennial House, as against a hereditary Executive.

Mr. MADISON observed, that if the opinions of the people were to be our guide, it would be difficult to say what course we ought to take. No member of the Convention could say what the opinions of his constituents were at this time; much less could he say what they would think, if possessed of the information and lights possessed by the members here; and still less, what would be their way of thinking six or twelve months hence. We ought to consider what was right and necessary in itself for the attainment of a proper government. A plan

adjusted to this idea will recommend itself. The respectability of this Convention will give weight to their recommendation of it. Experience will be constantly urging the adoption of it; and all the most enlightened and respectable citizens will be its advocates. Should we fall short of the necessary and proper point, this influential class of citizens will be turned against the plan, and little support in opposition to them can be gained to it from the unreflecting multitude.

Mr. GERRY repeated his opinion, that it was necessary to consider what the people would approve. This had been the policy of all legislators. If the reasoning (of Mr. MADISON) were just, and we supposed a limited monarchy the best form in itself, we ought to recommend it, though the genius of the people was decidedly adverse to it, and, having no hereditary distinctions among us, we were destitute of the essential materials for such an innovation.

On the question for the triennial election of the first branch, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, aye— 7; Massachusetts, (Mr. KING, aye, Mr. GORHAM, wavering) Connecticut, North Carolina, South Carolina, no--4.2

205

The words requiring members of the first branch to be of the age of years were struck out, --Maryland alone, no.

The words "liberal compensation for members," being considered, Mr. MADISON moved to insert the words, "and fixed." He observed that it would be improper to leave the members of the National Legislature to be provided for by the State Legisla

tures, because it would create an improper dependence; and to leave them to regulate their own wages was an indecent thing, and might in time prove a dangerous one. He thought wheat, or some other article of which the average price, throughout a reasonable period preceding, might be settled in some covenient mode, would form a proper standard.

Colonel MASON seconded the motion; adding, that it would be improper, for other reasons, to leave the wages to be regulated by the States,-first, the different States would make different provision for their representatives, and an inequality would be felt among them, whereas he thought they ought to be in all respects equal; secondly, the parsimony of the States might reduce the provision so low, that, as had already happened in choosing delegates to Congress, the question would be, not who were most fit to be chosen, but who were most willing to serve.

On the question for inserting the words, "and fixed," New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, aye-8; Massachusetts, Connecticut, South Carolina, no-3.

Doctor FRANKLIN said, he approved of the amendment just made for rendering the salaries as fixed as possible; but disliked the word "liberal." He would prefer the word "moderate," if it was necessary to substitute any other. He remarked the tendency of abuses, in every case, to grow of themselves when once begun; and related very pleasantly the progression in ecclesiastical benefices, from the first departure from the gratuitous provision for