(As to the Great Forest and the whole Lordship.) WILLIAM HOPKINS, aged 73 years and upwards, Was born in the Parish of Devynnock, and has lived in the Hamlet of Cray in that parish since he was three quarters of a year old. That the Range of Hills in the great Forest extends from the River Twrch in Carmarthenshire to the River Tawe in Glamorganshire ; that he remembers this Range of Hills 60 years at least, that he has been a shepherd belonging to these Hills for the whole of that time; that all the Tenants and Inhabitants of the great fforest having horses, cattle, and sheep, used to turn up every year to these hills oxen, steers, heifers, yearlings, Cattle, Horses, colts, and sheep; that they used to pay 1d. for every horse which was shoed, 1d. for every Cow, 1d. for every Ox, d. for every Steer, d. for every heifer, d. for every yearling, and 2d. the score for sheep. That the Inhabitants of the Parish of Llywell, not within the Great Forest, used to turn up their Horses, Cattle, and sheep also, and paid 2d. for every horse which was shoed, 2d. for every Ox, 1d. for every Steer, 1d. for every Heifer, d. for every yearling, 4d. for every score of sheep. That the Tenants and Inhabitants of all those other parts of the several parishes within the Lordship were accustomed to turn up every year their Cattle, horses, and sheep, and they paid as follows:-4d. for every head of Cattle and borses, and 8d. a score for sheep, of which latter they turned up very few, as they had commons nearer home where they could turn them. That witness was a forester for 7 years, and during the whole of that time the inhabitants of the different parts before mentioned were accustomed to turn up and make the payments before mentioned, that he rented the whole range of Hills for the sd. 7 years of Mr. Phillip Morgan, who was agent to Mr. Morgan of Tredegar, the Lessee under the Crown, at the Rent of £21. That witness in consequence used to collect the different payments from the several persons who turned up, that those Cattle which were sent up from Carmarthenshire were always impounded, as were those of the Inhabitants of the little fforest in Devynnock, as having no right whatever to turn. That witness has always understood that the Inhabitants of the great Forest, and also of the Lordship of Brecknock, had a right to turn to those hills in the Great fforest, making the several payments before mentioned, that he has heard his father, who was upwards of 80 years of age when he died, and several old people say that those parts of the several parishes of Devynnock, Llywell, Ystradgynlais, and Ystrafellte, over which the Great fforest does not extend, made double the payments that those parts in which the great forest lies, and the other parts of the Lordship made quadrupartite payments as before stated. RICHARD JONES, aged 79 years and upwards. That about 53 years ago he married and came to live at Devynnock, that he held Houses in the village with some fields, and turned horses, cattle, and sheep to the hill every year, and paid 2d. a score to the fforester for the sheep and 1d. a head for a horse, 1d. a head for an Ox, aud d. a head for Steers and Heifers, and d. a head for young cattle. JOHN JONES, aged 63 and upwards, Was born in Devynnock, and lived with his Father, who held Nantybeidy Ffarm in that parish. That his father, who held this ffarm several years, used to turn up his Horses, Cattle, and Sheep to the Hills, and used to pay ld. for a Horse shod, ld. for an Ox, ld. for a Cow, d. for a Steer, d, for an Heifer, and the whole neighbourhood used to turn up and make the same payments to the Forester. That the Inhabitants of the Little fforest had no right to turn, that the Cattle which came from Glamorganshire and Carmarthenshire were always taken up, having no right, but those which came from the Lordship were never taken up, as they had a right to turn, but they used to pay Double. None of the foregoing Evidence applies in particular to David Jones, but there is no doubt that clear and decisive Evidence can be had of the immemorial usage by him and his predecessors of turning Horses, Cattle, and Sheep to the Hills, and paying the sums usually paid by the Tenants in the District of the Great Forest. Evidence in abundance can also be procured of the constant usage by the Tenants in general of that district, and also of the Lordship of Brecknock in general, excepting the Tenants of the Little Forest and a few parcels of the Parts of the parishes over which the Lordship extends; but what these parcels are, we much doubt cannot be ascertained with any accuracy. It will be found by Mr. Illingworth's statement of his researches, that in a Minister's Account of the King's property in Brecknockshire in the 30th year of Henry the 8th, the Grant of Richard the 3rd and the confirmation of Henry the 8th are set forth, and the same corresponds with the unauthenticated copies which are in the Country. It is observable that the Grant is made to the Tenants of the Great Forest, and also to the Inhabitants of the Lordship of Brecknock having any beasts or Cattle haunting the said forest for water and pasture; what was meant by the word "haunting" it would be difficult to define at the present day, but it should seem from the Tenants of the Lordship constantly turning up their Cattle, etc., to the Hills that it was understood to apply to them in general. As to the Little Forest, we conclude the circumstance of its being open and waste land (which its name denotes), and probably solely in pasture in former ages, may account for the Tenants and inhabitants thereof not exercising the right of turning their Cattle, etc., to the Hills in the Great Forest, which the Grant of Richard gave them; and as to those other parcels or Farms which do not exercise the right, we can only conclude that they have lost it by non-usage. The foregoing, with Mr. Illingworth's researches, contains as complete a History, or rather Statement, of the rights claimed and used by the Tenants and Inhabitants of the Lordship of Brecknock of depasturing their Horses, Cattle, and Sheep on the range of Hills within that Lordship, now generally known by the name of the Great Forest, as the shortness of time allowed for obtaining Information and the circumstances of the Case will admit And it is hoped that the same will be sufficient to enable Counsel to decide upon the pleas-which it will be proper for the Defendants to put in to the informations filed by the Crown-indeed, unless the Grant of Richard, or the confirmation, or rather Inspeximus of Henry VIII can be found, we have no hopes of procuring any written Documents which can be evidence, further than those stated by Mr. Illingworth, excepting the presentments of the Manor of Brecknock during the time the same continued in the Crown, viz., from the Attainder of Edward, Duke of Buckingham, in 1521 to 1617, when the manor was granted for ninety-nine years to Trustees for the use of the Prince of Wales, afterwards Charles I, or perhaps to the seventh year of the Reign of Charles I, when the fee was granted to Sir Wm. Russell. Such Presentments, if any, are it is supposed in the possession of Sir Charles Morgan, and it is expected that some of them may set forth the Custom used by the Tenants of the Lordship of turning to the Great Forest; should that prove to be the Case, it is presumed that such Presentment being made, while the manor was in the hands of the Crown, will be admitted as Evidence in the favour of the defendants. In one of the Documents mentioned by Mr. Illingworth it is stated that the Kyvrye, or customary payment for turning to the forest, was threepence until the grant of Richard III, and it is remarkable that the account given by the old People in the country is that in former ages the Kyrvyve, or customary payment, was 3d. You will be pleased to advise what plea it will be proper under all the circumstances applicable to Defendant Lloyd for him to put in to the information filed against him by the Crown; and the Evidence which it will be proper to adduce in support of that plea. You will also be pleased to advise what Plea it will be proper for the Defendant Jones, under all the circumstances applicable to him, to put in to the information filed against him by the Crown, and the evidence which it will be proper to adduce in support of that plea. 1813.-IN THE EXCHEQUER. ATTORNEY-GENERAL against LLOYD, and SAME against JONES, by Information. The Issues not having been joined in their suit, but as they will be tried at the ensuing Hereford Assizes, and as the papers will be very voluminous, Mr. Jones takes the liberty of leaving this case for the perusal of Mr. Pettitt, because it will give him some insight into the question. He also leaves Cop's of the Proceed'gs at present upon the file. Mr. Jones will, if convenient, call upon Mr. P. at nine o'clock to-morrow morning, as Mr. J. is obliged to leave Worcester at 11 to-morrow. Mr. Taunton is with Mr. Pettitt in these causes. Case for the Opinion of Mr. Holroyd. A Consultation is requested with Mr. Taunton on Friday, at 8 o'clock..-5 Guas. and 2 Guas. J. Gregory, for Jones and Son, Llandovery. The Report of the celebrated antiquarian, Mr. Illingworth, on the whole history of the Great Forest was also obtained, and that we have given in full in Chapter I. The usual steps and stages prior to the Cause coming on for trial had been taken, and the case was on the very eve of trial at the Hereford Spring Assizes in 1814, when the defendants were approached by the Crown with the view of arranging a settlement. Mr. Thomas Bold, Sir Charles Morgan's solicitor, was instructed by Mr. Gilbert Jones, the Crown solicitor, to act as mediator, and to make known the proposed terms of settlement. The defendant's counsel, Messrs. Holroyd and Taunton, considered the terms fair, and recommended their acceptance. The history of the case, and of the negotiations which led up to the withdrawal of the suit and to a settlement, is clearly set forth in the Bill of the solicitors for the defence, which we here give : THE CROWN V. WATKIN LLOYD AND ANOTHER, COMMONERS. 1813. SOLICITORS' BILL, £501 15s. ld. The Crown asserted that the Commoners had no legal commonable rights, but if any rights at all, only the ordinary levant and couchant rights. And on the Crown agreeing to allow the levant and couchant rights, the Commoners abandoned their larger claim to having unlimited commonage. And the Plea was withdrawn by the Crown. The subjoined Bill of the Solicitors, Messrs. Powell and Jones, of Brecon, gives a full history of the case. 1813. June. The Crown having commenced actions against Mr. Watkin Lloyd, of Nantgwarred in Llywell, and Mr. Dav'd Jones, of Tymawr in Defynnock, for the purpose of litigating the Rights of Common upon the said Forest claimed by them and the other proprietors and occupiers of Lands in the Lordship of Brecknock, and Mr. Lloyd having employed Messrs. Edwd. Jones and Son, of Llandovery, to appear to the action brought against him, and Mr. Dd. Jones having given similar directions to Messrs. Powell and Jones, of Brecon, as to his action. 5th. Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Jones' Sol'rs attendance at a meeting held at Attendance upon the respective Defts' conferring and advising as to £ s. d. 4 4 0 2 2 0 IN THE KING'S BENCH. THE KING on the Prosecution of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL, v. DAVID THE KING on the Prosecution of the ATT'Y.-GEN'L., v. DAVID JONES. The like Charges of this Term herein . 17, 18, 19, 24, 25. Clerk's Journey round Penderrin, Ystradvelltey, Ys- Paid his Horse hire and Expenses 23. It being understood that the Rev. Mr. Payne, of Lanbeder, had several June 21. Attendance this day upon Mr. Phil. Morgan, perusing the Old Papers Attendance upon Mr. Thos. Bold, requesting a copy of an old document Paid his Charge Paid him also for a List of the Parishes, etc., in the Lordship of Brecon 26. W. P. and E. J.'s Junr's attendance at Defynnock this day, where they examined a great Number of Witnesses and took down their respective statements Paid their Expenses there, and for given to Witnesses . Carried over £31 10 0 Brought over 0 June. Paid Messenger for going to Penpont for some old papers, and from Clerk's attendance upon a great Number of Subscribers obtaining their 3 3 0 Ret'r Fee to Mr. Taunton and Cl'k for Lloyd Attend'g him Fee to Mr. Petit and Clerk for same Deft. Attending him The like Charges for Ret'rs as to Def't Jones As the Sol'rs for the Crown were pressing for the Def'ts Pleas in the It being necessary to engage Mr. Illingworth, one of the Record Officers The result of the search being that there never was a Grant from the Carried over £334 10 0 |