to do with the equipment of the original subway? A. The equipment and the operation.

By Mr. Burr:

Q. You said thirty or forty thousand in the Construction Ccmpany? A. About, about.

Q. And 114,000 in the other? A. 140,000.

Q. 140,000? A. About 140,000.

By Mr. Quackenbush:

Q. Well now, while we are waiting to get those produced, will you state how the vouchers are entered in the books to which Mr. Macginniss and his assistants have been given access? A. Taking first the Rapid Transit Subway Construction Company, the vouchers are entered in a voucher register, and they are numbered from 1 up. After payment they are returned by the treasurer and the details of each voucher carried into these two construction ledgers which I have described; so that the two ledgers to which I referred contain reference to every voucher, giving the name of the payee, the date of payment, a description of the voucher and the total amount paid.

Q. And what is the method with regard to the equipment account of the Interborough Rapid Transit Company? A. Practically the same.

Q. You are not ready with those papers yet? A. They are right outside.

Q. Well, then, to save time, while you are waiting to get them physically in your possession, have you taken off from the books statements as they appear upon the books of the items going to make up the fixed capital subway equipment account? A. I have.

Q. And those papers were delivered to the Corporation Counsel last Saturday? A. They were.

Mr. Burr. That is, some of them you delivered to the Corporation Counsel last Saturday, and some at 4 o'clock last evening? The Witness.- Yes.

Mr Quackenbush.-Well, that is different, Mr. Burr. What was delivered last Saturday- I made my point about that.

Mr. Burr.-I thought you were so specific that you wanted to get it exact.

Mr. Quackenbush. Oh, no, there is no point about that; no. But what was delivered to you on Saturday, Mr. Burr, were the sheets which I am holding in my hand. What was delivered last night was a summary of the whole transaction, which had not been prepared. So that I am not trying to pin this thing on you at any specific date.

Q. The sheet which I hand to you entitled, "Interborough Rapid Transit Company, Fixed Capital, Subway Equipment, December 31, 1908, Balance November 30, 1918", is what? A. This is a detailed statement showing under appropriate headings with respect to physical property, all disbursements made by the Interborough Rapid Transit Company in the work of equipping the subway, from the beginning of such work to December 31, 1908.

Mr. Riegelman.-1908?

Mr. Burr.- 1908.

Q.— That sheet carries the items to and including December 31, 1908? A. It does.

Q. I hand you a second document entitled, "Interborough Rapid Transit Company subsequent to December 31, 1908, balance November 30, 1919," and ask you what that is? A. This is a schedule prepared in a manner similar to the one last described, the difference being that this refers to expenditures subsequent to December 31, 1908, to and including November 30, 1919, for the equipping of the subways under contracts 1 and 2.

Q. Will you state the reason of your having the division as of December 31, 1908? A. The Public Service Commission in 1907 or 1908 promulgated a new system of accounts, which was operated from December 31, 1908, so that the accounts have been kept with respect to the first period under the old style, with respect to the second period under the newly announced system of accounts.

Q. And the amounts contained on the two papers to which

you now refer bring the transactions down to November 30, 1919? A. They do, from the beginning to June 30, 1919.

Q. And that is as close a date, I assume, as it is practicable to get, in view of the date that this hearing is proceeding? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You made a statement that those two documents contained all the items of equipment? A. Yes, sir.

Q.. May I call your attention to the fact that some of them were in the construction company? A. These items are all of the items relating to subway equipment, technical subway equip

ment.

Q. I understood — if I am wrong just correct me so we will get it right as we go along - my understanding was that some items of subway equipment were furnished by the Subway Construction Company prior to the date shown on these sheets? A. In the early work of equipping the system quite a large number of expenditures were made by the Rapid Transit Subway Construction Company for equipment purposes. Whatever those expenditures were they were reimbursed to the Construction Company by the Interborough Company and now form part of these schedules.

Q. In those items to which you now refer may be traced back to their original the sources in the accounts of the Rapid Transit Subway Construction Company? A. They can.

Q. But the statements which you have are comprehensive? A. They are.

Q. Those two statements aggregate how much, Mr. Gaynor? Take the first subway equipment contract No. 1 prior to December 31, 1908. A. The schedules show that contract No. 1 from the beginning of the work to December 31, expenditures totaling $20,188,638.85; for contract No. 2, $1,088,799.24.

Mr. Burr. There is a slight inaccuracy there, Mr. Quackenbush. The paper I have shows expenditures amounting to $2,192,538.65. Are you reading from the same paper?

Mr. Quackenbush.- May I see yours because you remember we are getting memoranda of some items here now up to date. (Mr. Burr hands paper.)

The Corporation Counsel hands me a copy of a paper dated January 16, 1920.

Q. Mr. Gaynor, is that the one which I hand you (handing)? A. January 16, 1920, $21,277,438.09.

Q. I see upon the Corporation Counsel's copy a credit in red ink, "Real Estate Taxes $3,900." Is that upon yours? That seems to account for the difference. A. The statement you have just handed me, received from the Corporation Counsel, contains a total of contract No. 1 and shows that total at $20,188,638.85, the same as I have just read off; contract No. 2, $1,088,799.24, making a total for the two contracts of as to which I have not yet stated $21,227,438.09. They are the same, identically.

Q. Will you continue to give the totals?

A. I have just given the totals for the first period. For the second period, to wit, from December 31, 1908, to November 30, 1909

Q. 1919, you mean, Mr. Gaynor, do you not? A. 1919, of

course.

Q. Yes. A. The total expenditures for equipment on Contract No. 1, $12,907,344.61. Under Contract No. 2, $118,175.34. Total for the two contracts during that period, $13,025,519.95.

Q. Now, separating them, Mr. Gaynor, will you give the total for Contract No. 1? A. Making the total for Contract No. 1, $33,095,933.46, and for Contract No. 2, $1,206,974.58. Mr. LaGuardia.- Is that equipment only?

Mr. Quackenbush. That is equipment; not all the equipment account, but the portion that is contained in the statements here. What might be called, Mr. President, the tangible property. The other items I will come to later on, the intangibles.

Mr. Burr.- May I inquire at this point, Mr. Quackenbush, if all these items that have been referred to by Mr. Gaynor are required to be filed with the Public Service Commission?

Mr. Quackenbush.— No, sir.

Mr. Burr.- And have they been, as a matter of fact, filed with the Public Service Commission or the Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners?

Mr. Quackenbush. Well, the Public Service Commission, you will recall, Mr. Corporation Counsel, was not organized Mr. Burr.- No.

Mr. Quackenbush.- Until 1907.

Mr. Burr. But I mean their predecessors, the Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners.

Mr. Quackenbush.- My recollection is that they were not required to be filed with the old Board.

Q. Am I right about that, Mr. Gaynor? A. Your recollection is what?

Q. The Corporation Counsel inquires as to whether copies of each of these papers were required to be filed with the old Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners. A. A copy of the papers was not so filed. That was not a requisite under the contract, as I understand it, but monthly summaries of these disbursements showing the classifications to which I have just testified have all been spread upon the records of the Rapid Transit Commissioners or the Public Service Commission.

Q. So that prior to July 1, 1907, those records would be found with the files of the old Rapid Transit Board? A. They will. Q. And subsequently to July 1, 1907, and down to June, 1919, with the records of the Public Service Commission? They will.

A.

Q. From and after that time presumably they were under the control of Mr. Delaney as the successor of the old board of Rapid Transit Commissioners? A. Yes.

By Mr. Burr:

Q. So these accounts which have been filed with all of these various bodies to which Mr. Quackenbush made reference, each tally with the accounts you have testified concerning? A. They will.

Q. As you now testify? A. Yes.