Mr. Hedges. I don't remember.

Mr. Quackenbush.- 1895.

Mr. Stimson. I mean 1895.

Mr. Quackenbush — 1895

Mr. Stimson.-1895 it began, and covered a period of time after that for several years, exactly how many I cannot say.

But we have this that wili help you, perhaps; there have been several appraisals made of the property

Mr. Craig. No, we are not interested in appraisals.

Mr. Stimson.

You are not interested in appraisals?

Mr. Craig. We are interested in real money, so that maybe we cannot do anything more than at this stage ascertain what records if any there are in existence of original character that will show the real money that went into the electrification of the surface lines in Manhattan that are now in the New York Railways.

Mr. Stimson.-I am informed that there is a great deal of evidence in existence, and all of it that we can control will be at your disposal.

Mr. Craig. All right.

Mr. Stimson.

And I think we can control all of it.

Mr. Craig. Then maybe by the time Mr. Burr gets along, within a week, in covering the matter Mr. Quackenbush is going to give him access to, you will be able to locate those original sources so that we can get at them?

Mr. Stimson.—Yes.

Mr. Craig. I think that is the best we can do.

Mr. Stimson.- Everything that we can control will be at your disposal, and I think we can control it all all that is in existence.

Mr. Burr. The original sources are what we lay emphasis upon, Mr. Mayor. This inquiry, if I am not mistaken, will result in a true history of the transportation companies of the City of New York, and for that purpose we intend to delve into the original sources of information. We are going to get to the original vouchers for the original payments, and in that way trace from that beginning to the present time the real condition, the true cost, the actual situation with regard to these companies in the City of New York, as outlined in the statement made by the Comptroller.

And I will say that, of course, I will devote myself entirely and absolutely to the progress of this inquiry, and I will place. all the assistants that I can command at the disposal of the Committee. It is simply a question of arranging the procedure. I think the week's adjournment will be sufficient to enable the examiners whom I will send into the offices of these companies to examine these original papers to make their report, so that that report may be transmitted to me, to enable me properly to interrogate the witnesses that may be called.

And I would suggest that arrangement be made for the issuance of subpoenas when necessary, and that those subpoenas be attested by the Mayor and issued

Mr. Craig. Mr. Burr, the resolution covered that, so that if you will get up the proper form

Mr. Stimson. No subpoena will be necessary so far as the Receiver and his agents are concerned.

Mr. Craig. Not so far as the New York Railways is concerned?

Mr. Stimson. Not the slightest occasion, sir.

Mr. Quackenbush. There will be no occasion for any subpoenas so far as the Interborough Rapid Transit is concerned. Mr. Burr. Then I will merely write and send you a list of the papers or books that I would like to examine.

Mr. Quackenbush.

Send a list to us and they will be produced

here.

The Chairman. I received a letter today containing a list of names, Mr. Burr, that troubled me, and I would not be a bit surprised but that you will have to subpoena.

Mr. Burr. Yes.

Mr. Garrison. If your Honor please, so that there may be no misunderstanding, as Receiver of the various companies operating in Brooklyn I have applications pending here. I want to do no discourtesy to the Board, and desire to follow their program, but as I understand it, as these matters that are now being talked about do not concern any of the companies with which I am concerned, I am not required to be present although, of course, I suppose I may be if I desire.

Mr. Craig. We could not take it all up at once.

Mr. Craig. And we thought, like charity, it ought to begin at home.

Mr. Garrison.- All I mean is, I would do no discourtesy to the Board if I were not here.

Mr. Craig.—I suppose there is some charity in this, isn't there? There probably will be as we go along.

Mr. Garrison.-- I expect we will have to show some, and I suppose you will; but I understand we are not required to be here on behalf of the Brooklyn Company?

The Chairman.- Receiver Hedges said last night all he wanted out of it was three cents?

Mr. Garrison.- Who wants three cents?

we

Mr. Craig. Now I think we have got to the point wanted to clear up those appearances first, of those companies which were in the first instalment of the program. I think if anybody else wants to enter an appearance there is no reason why it should not be taken. I do not know that there is any objection. Does any one have any objection to any other appearances being taken at this time?

Mr. Hobbs. We have appeared in the proceedings of the B. R. T.

The Chairman. Step around there.

Mr. Hobbs (Approaching).— We should simply like to preserve our rights, and I should like to have the name of Hobbs & Page appear for the Non-assenting Security Holders in both of

these matters.

The Chairman.- I did not get that, Mr.

Mr. Hobbs. Hobbs & Page; Mr. Hobbs, of Hobbs & Page.

Mr. Sullivan.— Appearing for whom?

Mr. Hobbs. For the Non-assenting Security Holders.

Mr. Craig.— Well, Mr. Garrison, do you want to get your appearance on the record?

Mr. Garrison.

No, I do not represent, you see, either the Interborough or the New York Railways.

Mr. Craig.— This is now general, for anybody we were clearing the way first.

Mr. Garrison. Under that, if you will enter my appearance in propria personam, and my counsel, Mr. Carl M. Owen, so that we will have the right to be present for any purpose, I shall be obliged to you; although you would not, as I understand it. require us as yet to be here by reason of investigating our roads. Mr. Craig. No.

Mr. Garrison.-- That is what I understood.

Mr. Craig. Now, what has Mr. Burr got to say about the time we will go on next?

The Chairman. When will you be prepared now, Mr. Burr? The other side say that they can furnish you the information that is desired in about a week's time?

Mr. Craig. Can you start a week from today?

Mr. Burr.- Well, I think in the beginning we ought to make haste slowly. I think that will conduce to more thorough examination and the better arrangement of our matters in hand later on. I do not know as to whether we could get the report back from our examiners and accountants in time to proceed within a week from today. I would suggest that

Mr. Craig.

Why not try a week from today, because it makes it so much easier? Mr. Quackenbush, it seems, has been working nights on this, while the rest of us were asleep, and he has a large amount of this evidence assembled, and it will probably be produced before you realize it. Now, why not take the adjournment for a week from today, on the expectation that he is a good producer as well as a good promiser.

Mr. Burr.- Well

Mr. Craig. At 10:30?

Mr. Burr.-I think I may indulge in that hope.

The Chairman.- That is the Board of Aldermen's meeting today.

Mr. Craig. Better make it Wednesday morning?

The Chairman.- Better make it Wednesday morning, because the Board of Aldermen meet on Tuesday morning. Wednesday morning at 10:30.

Mr. Burr.- Wednesday morning at 10:30.

The Chairman. Yes, a week from tomorrow morning at 10:30.

Mr. Hedges.— Have we adjourned, Mr. Mayor?

The Chairman.

Yes.

Mr. Hedges. I thought the Comptroller was a little unfair in assuming that Mr. Quackenbush was the only one who worked ights. I think you and I were out last night.

The Chairman. Yes. I beat you to the hotel by fifteen minutes. I took that bus line, and you took the trolley car.