Mr. RANKIN. There is more work done on the cotton crop in May and June in my part of the coutry; that is my experience.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, as you go further north you find that condition later.

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. When do you harvest the tobacco crop in Kentucky; along in August and September?

Mr. MOORMAN Yes; in August and September.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not have in influx of temporary farm labor at that time?

Mr. MOORMAN. No; none in particular. There may be a few hands taken from the small towns and a few from the cities, but very few. We have just the usual labor in the community.

The CHAIRMAN. How is it in the Northwest, with wheat?

Mr. WHITE. That applies to a degree, only; but it has been suggested about the annual migration of farmers to the city, and vice versa. That does not apply in the State of Kansas. The diversification of agriculture is such that in December the farmers are harvesting their corn, they are on their farms, and throughout the working season they are on their farms and may be found. There is very little difference as indicated by the charts, agreeing with the charts. I make that statement, being rather familiar with that section, having lived a long time in the rural districts, and living there now, that the farmers are employed, their own families and whatever farm labor they employ in the raising and taking care of their diversified crops. The alfalfa crop begins probably in the first days of June and occupies several months of intensive work. That is the busiest season we have, I think, throughout the year. And then our corn gathering. I had a letter from home this morning which went over the situation in the neighborhood. They are generally, now, just finishing up most of their corn, and this is January 19.

The CHAIRMAN. I have seen corn in the shock right around here in Maryland, lately.

Mr. MOORMAN. A great quantity of tobacco is not stripped on November 30, and until they strip it and handle it, they can not tell its character or its value.

Mr. OGG. I know that would be true in the case of tobacco, because I have raised tobacco.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us get along a little, if we can.

Mr. OGG. I will not take time to explain these other charts, except to say that this second chart relates to hired farm labor. The first chart relates to family labor and the second to hired labor, and the third combines these two. If you will examine these charts you will see that there is very little difference here between April 1 and December 1. Of course there is a variation in these estimates, necessarily, because they are nothing but estimates. But as far as the farm population is concerned, so far as these estimates show, there is very little difference in the number of people on the farms around December 1 and around April 1; so that, let me conclude by saying that I hope that the committee can see fit to give us the agricultural census around the 1st of December.

Mr. WHITE. For the current year?

85244-28-7

Mr. OGG. Yes, sir; that is the current year-the calendar yearthe crop year, I should say.

The CHAIRMAN. The census is of 1930. Why should we wait until the 1st of January, 1931, to ascertain those facts?

Mr. OGG. No; if it were taken in 1930-what I would suggest is that the agricultural census be taken December 1, 1929. The CHAIRMAN. The bill provides November 1.

Mr. OGG. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Have any of these suggestions come from the Department of Agriculture, that you have been giving us here?

Mr. OGG. No; these are my suggestions; but I conferred with the Department of Agriculture after I had made up-after we had arrived at our decision. Mr. Gray and I talked this over at some length.

The CHAIRMAN. We have had no suggestions from the Department of Agriculture. Probably they would not suggest.

Mr. OGG. Mr. Gray and I decided on this, yesterday morning; or rather yesterday afternoon, late, and I had a very brief conference with some of the men there, just to find out what they thought about it.

Mr. De Rouen. Would this be of special benefit to you, changing that date? Is that for any special reason?

Mr. OGG. The only reason, as I said before, for suggesting that is we feel it makes possible more accuracy in the crop data.

The CHAIRMAN. Why would not these figures that would be secured by the Census Bureau fulfill what you desire? If the Department of Agriculture wanted these figures they could apply to the Census Bureau and get them, easily; but would not the authoritative figures be those of the Census Bureau?

Mr. OGG. That is true; but what I said in regard to the accuracy I also intended to include the census figures. We feel that it would promote accuracy in the figures of the census.

The CHAIRMAN. We propose to have taken a full census of agriculture by the Census Bureau, and of course it would be of interest, perhaps, to the organization which you represent in the entire country, These figures will be of value and interest.

Mr. MOORMAN. Mr. Chairman, do you not think that it would be well to invite suggestions from the Agricultural Department? I would like to hear what they have to say about it.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the Agricultural Department would hesitate a great deal I have no authority for that but I certainly, if I was in their position would hesitate a great deal to express an opinion. It is undoubtedly like asking the Navy Department to express their views as to what should be done by certain agencies of the War Department.

Mr. RANKIN. Your proposition would render impossible the very thing you are trying to do.

The CHAIRMAN. You see what I mean, Mr. Moorman?

Mr. MOORMAN. Yes.

Mr. OGG. It would perhaps be more difficult, for instance, in the case of tobacco, as the gentleman here suggested, to know the value. of that tobacco-in fact, it would be impossible to know the value of it-until it was sold; but on a great many other commodities such

as grain and vegetable crops, except, of course, the winter vegetable crops, it would make it more accurate.

Mr. RANKIN. It would be absolutely impossible for you to get a correct census of the amount of cotton produced in the year, and cotton seed, for the simple reason that there would be more than a million bales still in the fields in December, and there would be several hundred thousand bales ginned, after the 1st of January. You would cut right into the middle of the crop, so as to render it impossible to get an accurate census of the amount of those products. produced that year.

The CHAIRMAN. That cotton ginning is taken now by the Agricultural Department.

Mr. RANKIN. No; that is taken by this department.

Mr. MOORMAN. I would like to inquire of the witness whether what you are stating is the opinion of yourself and your chief, or whether what you are stating reflects the conclusions of your organization out in the different agricultural sections that are interested in the census?

Mr. OGG. These suggestions I am making to-day were made at the direction of Mr. Gray, the Washington representative of the American Farm Bureau Federation. This matter has not been referred to each individual bureau, so that these specific suggestions are not included in any of their resolutions, so far as I know; but they are developed as the result of the authority conferred on the administrative officials and handled just as such cases usually are when the occasion arises.

Mr. RANKIN. You said that you had just arrived at this conclusion yesterday, did you not-you and Mr. Gray?

Mr. OGG. Well, as to the exact date, we discussed this matter off and on for several months. We wanted to consider it very carefully, and we considered all angles of it, so that we would get the date that would be the best date possible, which is what we are interested in, and that date seemed to us, just in our judgment, a proper date. If I may just pass on to one other suggestion, I will be through, Mr. Chairman. Parenthetically, what I said in regard to the date of the decennial census I would like also applied to the date of the intermediate census of agriculture.

Mr. RANKIN. What do you mean by "intermediate?”

The CHAIRMAN. The census taken every five years.

Mr. OGG. That is the census authorized in section 16 in the year 1934. I would like to suggest, also, that the date of that census be changed to December 1 instead of November 1.

Mr. RANKIN. What is it now?

Mr. OGG. It is November 1, in that bill.

Mr. RANKIN. I understand, but what about the five-year census?

What is it now?

Mr. OGG. I think it was taken January 1.

Mr. Austin. It was taken in 1920 and 1925; January 1.

Mr. RANKIN. You want it changed to what?

Mr. OGG. From November 1 to December 1, 1934.

Mr. RANKIN. Why do you want that changed?

Mr. OGG. For the same reasons that I gave in regard to the decennial census. The same reasons would apply.

Mr. MOORMAN. You wanted December 1, you say?

Mr. OGG. December 1; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed with your other suggestions.

Mr. OGG. One other suggestion in regard to this census of agriculture which is to be taken in 1934. In section 16, page 12 of this bill, may I suggest that at the conclusion of that sentence, after the word "country country" this clause be inserted:

and such other data as shall be determined by the Director of the Census, with the approval of the Secretary of Commerce.

Our purpose in suggesting that is this, that the census taken in 1935, it seems to me, should be more extensive, and should cover more items; and this would make possible the inclusion of other items than those included in the census of 1925, and I believe the items specified in this bill are identical, are they not, with those specified in the preceding bill? I do not think there is any change in that, and the addition of this flexible clause would make possible the adding of any other items that might be necessary. That is all I have to say. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you for coming before the committee. Will you leave those charts with the committee?

Mr. OGG. If I may have them back.

The CHAIRMAN. No; I think you have explained them fully. Thank you very much.

Mr. RANKIN. Before you leave, let me ask you a question. This bill provides for a census of distribution. Has your organization considered the subject of having a census of distribution of farm products?

Mr. OGG. We have not given any particular study to it, no, sir; except that I myself, while I have not given any particular study to it, was here yesterday and I heard the testimony, and personally I was very much interested in that. It seemed to me it would be very helpful to have further information in the census of distribution concerning agricultural products. For example, take the case of wheat. It would be very helpful to know, it seems to me, what happens to wheat after it leaves the farmer's hands; where it would go and to whom it goes. I do not mean to whom, individually, or by name, but to what agencies. Of course, we know in a general way now, but it seems to me, just using that as one illustration-and what I say there might be applied to almost any farm crop-it might be helpful to have that information concerning the distribution of farm products between the time that they leave the producers' hands and the time that they reach the consumers' hands. That is my own personal thought about it.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Ogg. Mr. Hill, will you say something?

STATEMENT OF DR. JOSEPH A. HILL, BUREAU OF THE CENSUS

Doctor HILL. In the first place, I might say in regard to Mr. Ogg's suggestion that the law specify the topics to be covered by the census. I do not know that there would be any serious objection to doing that, or any harm in doing it on the one hand, but on the other hand I think it is practically unnecessary and superfluous, because I know

very well that no important subject will be omitted from the census of agriculture which ought to be in it, and which the farm bureau contends ought to be in it, and the Department of Agriculture contends ought to be in it.

The CHAIRMAN. They would be in it?

Doctor HILL. They would be in it. We have devoted a great deal of study and care and time to the preparation of the schedules in the Census Bureau. No one who has not had actual experience in the work knows how important a task that is, and how much study it requires; and in preparing a schedule for the census of agriculture in 1925, we had conference after conference with the representatives of the Department of Agriculture, and we went over every question in the schedule, not only whether the questions should be included, but just how it should be expressed so as to bring out all information. desired; and if those topics are to be put in the law, I should say they should be only very general. They are really unnecessary,. because we will cover those general subjects any way.

I want to say a word about the date, as that subject has come up, and I want to say, in the first place, that I am inclined to agree with Mr. Ogg that the census of agriculture and the census of population: should be taken on the same date.

Mr RANKIN. That was my suggestion, and that the census be taken in April.

Doctor HILL. I think you are right about that. Now, in regard to taking the census of agriculture in April, you will find that the Department of Agriculture, at least, is very decidedly of the opinion that April is a bad month in which to take the census of agriculture, and they will give you two reasons for it, perhaps more. The first reason that they will give is that in April a great many of the farms have changed hands since the crop of the preceding year was raised. The period from December to April is the time when transfers of farm ownership or occupancy are commonly made, after the close of the crop year, which in the northern part of the country is the 1st of December; and where there has been a change of owners or tenants, you are asking questions of a man who does not know much about the crops of the preceding year on that farm, and who is therefore not well qualified to answer them. That is one reason.

The other reason is that in the spring is a particularly bad time for the census of livestock, because it is about the time that the chickens are being hatched, and calves and pigs are being born; and some may be born a few days before the census enumerator comes around, and others a few days after, and you do not get a correct picture of the livestock of the country.

There may be one or two other reasons, but those are the main

reasons.

The CHAIRMAN. You have arrived at those after conference with the Department of Agriculture?

Doctor HILL. Yes.

Mr. WHITE. I would like to ask, does this information found in the Federal census include the sale of animals sold for market, for slaughter, and so forth?

Doctor HILL. It has been included.