Mr. RANKIN. Let me make another suggestion. In nearly every section of the United States the land is largely cultivated by tenant farmers, and in my section of the State those farmers all move about the 1st of December, and if you go there at a time when all this disturbance is taking place, change of location and the change of tenants, you will have more trouble about the time you suggest than any other time of the year I can mention.

Mr. OGG. I do not know how it is in your State, but in Virginia it seems to be the general custom that tenants move about the 1st of January, or during the Christmas period. That seems to be a pretty general custom there, and that is why I did not suggest January 1, because while theoretically that would be ideal from a statistical standpoint and getting the calendar year, yet from a practical standpoint I do not think it would be practicable, because of the movement of tenant farmers around the first of the year.

Mr. RANKIN. Then another objection to your time of the year is in the wintertime the roads are at their worst, the weather cold, it is usually rainy around the last of November or the 1st of December throughout the Southern States as a rule, what we might term our wet season begins; and we had more difficulty in 1920 in getting the census in the rural districts taken than I ever thought we would have under any conditions.

Mr. OGG. That was taken later than December 1, was it not?

Mr. RANKIN. It was taken in January; but I think December would be worse than January. I think you would have a more disturbed condition in December than you would have in January.

Mr. OGG. I was just going to state that I would not think there would be as much objection to having it December 1 as there would be, say, January 1, because the roads in January and February, in my observation, are worse than they are in December.

Mr. RANKIN. They are bad enough in December. You understand my attitude is not to select either one of them. My idea is to take the census around the 1st of April, and my position on this proposition is prompted solely by the interests of agriculture. I believe that I have studied this proposition from the farmers' standpoint as thoroughly as any man in the House, and I believe it would be much better for the farmers throughout the country to take this census in the spring than to take it at any other time.

Mr. OGG. May I ask what would be your thought in regard to June 30?

Mr. RANKIN. I do not think that would be a good time, and I will tell you why. In the first place, June 30 is what we call at home the laying-by time-if you have ever worked on the farm, you know what that means-and when people get through laying-by, they scatter. You will find more people on the farms, getting ready to make a crop, in April or May than any other time of the year.

The CHAIRMAN. In the bill it is given "as of the 1st of the preceding November." I presume, without having any particular knowledge of it-I have not discussed it with anybody, but I presume-the purpose of that is, so that the figures may be ascertained at the end. of a crop season.

Mr. RANKIN. How is that?

The CHAIRMAN. "The 1st of the preceding November," it says. That is only my presumption. I have no experience in it. That

would be when they have finished the crop-have closed the crop

season.

Mr. RANKIN. The truth is that they have not closed the crop season, and they do not close it in the cotton States until all the cotton is ginned, and that does not take place until the middle of January.

The CHAIRMAN. But this would ascertain the number of bales and the amount of the crop, and I understand that is what they want.

Mr. WHITE. In the current year?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, in the current year; take it in November. Mr. RANKIN. There are a million bales of cotton in the fields at that time.

Mr. OGG. The main point that I was trying to make in that suggestion was this, that it would afford figures for the calendar year, or nearly so, which the Department of Agriculture could use very helpfully in the estimates which they give out from time to time, and it seems to us it would make possible greater accuracy in the agricultural information which we gather.

Mr. RANKIN. In April, in so far as cotton is conserned, it would be absolutely accurate. If you took it in December, it would be impossible to make it accurate, because they would have to go on later to get the final ginning.

Mr. OGG. On the other hand, if you take it in April, the share cropper or tenant who leaves the farm January 1 goes to a new farm and begins new operations. If he does not keep books, it would be very difficult, it seems to me, or at least it might involve more inaccuracies, to take the census then, because if you are trying to get the figures over the past year, he would have lived on one farm part of the year and on another farm another part of the year, and in that way there would be some confusion, it seems to me; whereas, if you take it November 30, or say, December 1, you would catch most of the tenant farmers before they leave their farms, and just before the time that they leave, and in that way all of their activities would be fresh in their minds. I am speaking mostly, now, of those who do not keep books, and who would have to depend on their memories to a large extent as to their farm operations, and it seems to me it would be in the interest of accuracy to have it taken at that time.

The CHAIRMAN. On what date does the Department of Agriculture make its figures now?

Mr. OGG. Except the monthly figures, most of them are made on the basis of December 31 or June 30.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you communicated with the Department of Agriculture, asking for a change in the time that they take their figures?

Mr. OGG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it not a fact that from their experience they feel that is the best time to take them?

Mr. OGG. I presume they feel that is the best time.

The CHAIRMAN. That is contrary to your desire in this bill?

Mr. OGG. No; that is exactly in accord with my desire. They take it either during the calendar year or the fiscal year.

The CHAIRMAN. When do they make the collocation of their figures?

Mr. OGG. Their figures are issued as of December 31 or June 30. The CHAIRMAN. When do they take the census to ascertain those figures that they give you on December 31? They do not take the figures on December 31. They do not take the census on December 31.

Mr. OGG. No.

The CHAIRMAN. When do they take the census?

Mr. OGG. They take them through their crop-reporting service. The CHAIRMAN. When do the crop reporters work?

Mr. OGG. They send in reports twice a month, some of them every month in the year, and of course the statisticians-I am not familiar with all the details of how they handle that, and I would not want to go into details, because I do not want to assume to speak for the department, but my impression is that these reports are sent in, some monthly, some semimonthly, all through the year, and that these reports at the end of the year are tabulated and summarized and issued as of December 31 or June 30.

The CHAIRMAN. Your idea is that this census would be a sort of check-up on their figures.

Mr. OGG. That would be only one purpose.

The CHAIRMAN. It would be one.

Mr. OGG. Yes; or, it would aid them in making their estimates. That would be the way I would like to put it.

Mr. RANKIN. Take another phase of the farmers' situation. In my country, and I suppose all over the United States, one of the farmers' main crops is the meat crop. That meat is all killed, or a vast majority of it, after the 1st of January. In this census you are getting figures, statistics, on the amount of meat produced on the farm, killed, etc. It is impossible to weigh it or estimate it until it comes time to kill it. Would you not get that more accurately than you would in November?

Mr. OGG. Possibly, in the case of meat on the farm. Of course that would not be as large as some of the other items.

Mr. WHITE. I would like to ask Mr. Rankin a question, if I may do so.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. WHITE. Is it not the fact that April would afford an opportunity to get the men who have the information better than almost any other time? The tenant farmers will be located and at their work, and can be found. This information that it is desired to collect can be ascertained much more readily at that time than almost any other period of the year; is not that true?

Mr. RANKIN. I think so.

Mr. DE ROUEN. Do we not raise meat, cattle and pigs, and kill them not before December and January?

Mr. RANKIN. That is the case in my country.

Mr. DE ROUEN. They do not kill them earlier than that.

Mr. RANKIN. March and April would be the best season to get

the information, it seems to me.

Mrs. KAHN. That is in the South.

Any time is suitable to get these

figures in California. We have crops mature all the year around,

there. We have eight or ten crops. month for alfalfa.

We have to take a census every

Mr. OGG. Take a commodity like wheat, for example. Suppose a tenant farmer leaves his farm January 1, and the census enumerator comes around on April 1 to gather information in regard to his crop. He is mixed up in two crops, and it will have been three or four months since he has lived on the preceding farm, where he produced a crop the preceding year. It seems to me it would be difficult to get figures on a great many crops.

Mr. RANKIN. You have to interview all these fellows, at any rate. You ask a man the question, "How much wheat did you make last year?" He knows as much about the amount of wheat that he made the year before, in April as he did in December.

Mr. OGG. If he does not keep books, he would have to depend on his memory.

Mr. DE ROUEN. Did it ever occur to you that he never did keep any books, and never will; and what little he raises is all he has had to do or think about, and he could tell you two years after that just as well as he can on December 1st?

Mr. OGG. Many of them can; that is true.

The CHAIRMAN. There is one feature of this bill that I do not know that we have considered, in regard to the time when this census should be taken in order that it may be brought out and given to the public within a reasonable period, at as early a time as possible. I know that when a census is taken there is the greatest inquiry in the meantime in regard to the result of the census from all over the country everywhere, and whether the date fixed would expedite the distribution of the results of the census all through the country may have some bearing on the reason why the date is fixed here on November 1.

Mr. RANKIN. It is April 1, is it not?

The CHAIRMAN. No; the census of population is the 1st of April and the census of agriculture, it says, shall be taken as of the 1st of the preceding November.

I have wondered, and perhaps the gentlemen from the Census Bureau will explain to us-I have no doubt that they will-why the date of November 1 was decided upon and introduced in the bill, and why the date of April 1 was included in the bill. Without having any information about it, it seems to me the important matter is the time of getting out the census. What everybody will want to know first, as soon as possible, of course, is the population, with all this rivalry between the cities especially. There are two cities in the far West, for example, that are very anxious to know what the census will be on population; and there will be great interest in agriculture and in this new feature of the bill, distribution. those two are the primary things, as I may term them, the censuses of population and of agriculture, and the country will want to know just as speedily as possible the figures on those. I have not conversed with anybody from the Census Bureau on that subject.

But

Mr. RANKIN. My idea is that they ought both to be taken at the same time, because the taking of each one would help in the taking of the other, and it will reduce expenses, and at the same time it will enable you to get a fuller census and more complete census of both. Whenever they are taken, it is my idea that they should both be taken at the same time, and then that would eliminate what is the main

objection that the gentleman offered a while ago, that the farmers ought not to be disturbed when they are at work; and one disturbance, you understand, would be better than two.

The CHAIRMAN. They would be glad for some one to come to see them the 1st of November.

Mr. OGG. Right on that point, as to the number of people on the farms at different dates, I do not know whether the committee would be interested in seeing these charts or not. These charts were prepared by the division of land economics, just roughly. They did not have time to do it except in a rough manner.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, in your organization?

Mr. OGG. No; the division of land economics, the Bureau of Agricultural Economics of the Department of Agriculture. Mr. RANKIN Will you state briefly what they show?

Mr. OGG. One of these charts is composed of indices of persons employed on the farms in the United States. This chart [indicating] relates to the family labor, the amount of family labor on the farm. The CHAIRMAN. That is based on what census?

Mr. OGG. This is not based on a census; it is purely an estimate. The CHAIRMAN. Upon what authority do you base that chart? By whom are the figures gathered?

Mr. OGG. There are four curves charted here, one charted by the division of land economics, based on several thousand questionnaires which they sent out, and three other curves based on the estimates of the crop estimates board

The CHAIRMAN. I just wanted to get the authority for it.

Mr. OGG. Based on the reports of their crop reporters. Of course this does not show the movement from one farm to another. It shows only the amount of labor on the farm.

Comparing, for example, December 1 with, say, April 1, according to these three curves of the estimates of the board of crop estimates, there seems to be very little difference.

Mr. RANKIN. What time of the year is the peak?

Mr. OGG. The peak is in the summer months, naturally.

The CHAIRMAN. Is not this true; when certain crops are taken in different parts of the country-notably, in the section in which I live, in August and September when the tobacco is harvested-there is a very large increase in the farm labor-temporary labor, to be sure? When the peach crop is harvested in Georgia I presume there is a large increase in farm labor, temporarily, for the gathering of that crop; and I have the thought here that that must obtain to a greater or less extent throughout the country.

Mr. RANKIN. On the first of the fiscal year; about May or June in my part of the country.

The CHAIRMAN. July and August.

Mr. RANKIN. In my country in May and June they employ that temporary labor. They go into the towns and load up all the negro women and carry them out to the cotton fields to help hoe the cotton.

Mr. OGG. Also all the children that are at school in the winter months are naturally at work on the farm in the summer, and this chart includes family labor, and, of course, it would be heavier then. Mrs. KAHN. That is the case in California. They turn the school children loose for the picking season.