Fifteenth and Subsequent Decennial Censuses, Hearings ..., Jan 11-Feb 10, 1928

Exhibit B shows in detail what we propose to pay supervisors, salaries, rents, telephone, and other expenses in connection therewith. You will note in Exhibit B we provide for the basis of pay of supervisors. We require $750,000 for that. That provides for 375 supervisors at $2,000 each base pay. Then, there is additional compensation for supervisors of $1 per thousand inhabitants.

Mr. RANKIN. Additional pay for what?

Mr. GOSNELL. $1 a thousand for inhabitants enumerated.

The CHAIRMAN. That is estimated on an estimated population of 123,000,000?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes. We have departed somewhat from other censuses, by providing for a dollar a thousand for inhabitants and an additional compensation for supervisors of 2 cents per farm, and we have estimated 6,372,000 farms. The total additional compensation on the basis of $1 per thousand inhabitants would be $123,000, and the additional compensation for supervisors at 2 cents per farm, for 6,372,000 farms is $127,000.

We have added that additional 2 cents compensation per farm enumerated for the supervisors in order that we can equalize the compensation of those supervisors with the supervisors in the cities. Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; Mr. Jacobstein.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. What is that item for now?

Mr. GOSNELL. We propose to pay the supervisors 2 cents additional compensation in order to equalize the pay of the supervisors in the rural districts with those in the cities.

For instance, in an urban district with a population of 400,000 the supervisor would get $2,400. That includes $2,000 base pay. Whereas, in a rural section having a population of only 225,000 and 25,000 farms he would only get $2,225 unless we pay so much per farm enumerated. The plan we propose would bring his compensation up to approximately $2,750.

The CHAIRMAN. A year?

Mr. GOSNELL. For the period, six to eight months.

We know, as a matter of actual practice, that it takes about twice as long to enumerate the rural districts as it does the cities.

We have provided $1,100,000 for salaries of assistants, clerks, interpreters, and inspectors, which is a reasonable increase over the amount that was expended in the 1920 census.

We have also provided for rent, telephone, travel, and other miscellaneous expenses, $300,000.

That makes a total of $2,400,000. We have provided for 15 regional disbursing officers, salaries of clerks, and traveling expense of $100,000.

That makes a grand total of $2,500,000.

This, by the way, does not include the census of distribution.
Compensation of enumerators, $10,673,000.

Total expenses for enumeration, exclusive of distribution, $13,173,000.

The cost for the Territory and insular possessions, which does not include the Philippine Islands in this statement, $335,000, which makes a grand total of $13,508,000.

Exhibit C: We have shown in detail in that tabulation

The CHAIRMAN. Now, let me ask whether you have included the distribution census in that? That is not included in Exhibit B?

Mr. GOSNELL. That is included in Exhibit A. Perhaps I did not explain that sufficiently.

Exhibit A: In Exhibit A we show the total cost of enumerators compensation, census of distribution, $1,500,000. That is based on an estimate of 1,500,000 distribution schedules. That is based on $1 a schedule. The distribution of that will be found in Exhibit C, by States.

The CHAIRMAN. What is this figure of $1,250,000?

Mr. GOSNELL. That is the office expense, Mr. Chairman.

Page 1 is where I am reading from now. Right here [indicating]. Mr. RANKIN. That includes the agricultural distribution?

Mr. GOSNELL. That does not include agricultural distribution, Mr. Rankin. That includes only the stores, wholesale and retail, and manufacturers who have wholesale and retail outlets.

Compensation of supervisors, $180,000; salaries of clerks, $280,000; miscellaneous expenses, $40,000; making a total of $2,000,000 for the field work on the census of distribution. Grand total for all field expenses is $16,308,000.

Mr. WHITE. Where are you reading?

Mr. GOSNELL. From the first page, right there [indicating].

Office expenses for a census of distribution: Administrative, $200,000 that, Mr. Chairman, may appear somewhat high, but that is due to the fact that it is entirely new work and it will be necessary to have experts in the bureau that have intimate knowledge of that subject. That is going to be somewhat expensive.

Handling and editing schedules for distribution, $550,000. That, of course, includes the preparation of the reports for tabulation.

Tabulation, $150,000; result work, $300,000; and miscellaneous, $50,000; making a total of $1,250,000. Adding to that the two million, gives you a total of $3,250,000.

That does not include printing and the purchase of supplies, which will amount to about $500,000.

. That makes a total cost of a distribution census of about $4,075,000. The CHAIRMAN. Now, what do you make your grand total?

Mr. GOSNELL. $34,763,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you please tell what the cost of the last census was?

Mr. GOSNELL. The last census, $25,170,000.

That $34,763,000, Mr. Chairman, includes the cost, of course, of carrying on the annual and other investigations during the three-year period.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the three-year period?

Mr. GOSNELL. That is approximately $3,750,000.

The cost of the 1920 census was $25,170,000.

The CHAIRMAN. That included the three-year period?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. In connection with this discussion as to the cost, have you added the cost of the distribution?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes; that is added in there. This increase is about $9,000,000 over the expenses of the 1920 census, $4,075,000 of which is for the census of distribution.

The CHAIRMAN. The other five million is increase in pay and increased cost?

85244-28- -14

Mr. GoSNELL. Increased cost.

Mr. THURSTON. You are estimating this cost to be about a onethird increase?

The CHAIRMAN. That includes these other censuses.

Mr. GOSNELL. Possibly an increase of about $8,000,000 and we have also provided for more adequate rates of compensation for enumerators in this estimate. I think that it is well known that the enumerators and the supervisors are not paid adequately.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand if this act were a law and the Budget was in session to take into consideration the appropriation for this census and was taking up the subject, that is the figure you would submit to the Budget?

Mr. GOSNELL. That is true.

Mr. RANKIN. I do not know so much about that. You do not include in here the expenses of taking the census of agriculture and distribution?

Mr. GOSNELL. I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. That is not in the bill.

Mr. RANKIN. It is going to be.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be in the bill and it may not. We do not know yet.

Mr. RANKIN. I think it is going to be in the bill.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not in the bill yet.

Mr. RANKIN. I do not understand what your estimate includes for that.

Mr. GOSNELL. We have not made any estimate for that, Mr. Rankin.

Mr. RANKIN. Have you got any way of making an estimate?
Mr. GOSNELL. Yes; we can make an approximation.

Mr. RANKIN. Let me ask you about the agricultural census of our Territories and insular possessions. I see that there is a demand now for a world-wide agricultural census. It seems to me that it is going to be incumbent on the United States to take the agricultural census of the Philippine Islands.

I want to know whether you have any estimate as to what it would cost to take an agricultural census of the Philippine Islands. Mr. GOSNELL. No; we have not made one.

Mr. RANKIN. Could you make one?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. I would be glad to have you submit it.

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is that estimate based upon?

Mr. GOSNELL. It would be based upon the number of farms in the Philippine Islands.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you get the number of farms in the Philippine Islands?

Mr. GOSNELL. From the last census.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the Philippine government expressed any desire to have a census of agriculture taken?

Mr. GOSNELL. Not that I know of, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. They have not expressed any desire for it?

Mr. GOSNELL. Not that I know of.

Mr. RANKIN. Well, we have not heard any thing from the Philip

pines except a few protests now and then as to what is going on over there.

The CHAIRMAN. We always have that.

Mr. RANKIN. I think that there is a demand on the part of the people that are interested in wanting an agricultural census and it comes from people interested in the welfare of America and it seems to me that it will likely be very necessary that this agricultural census be taken and I would like to have some figures on it.

The CHAIRMAN. Would it cause any friction, or any feeling on the part of the Philippine government if the administration of the United States should take over the task of taking an agricultural census in the Philippines?

Mr. THURSTON. Any exercise of sovereignty will cause ill feeling. Mrs. KAHN. I guess we could do it as we are doing down in Nicaragua.

The CHAIRMAN. Do as we are doing down in Nicaragua?
Mrs. KAHN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think that we are doing well there?

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Mrs. Kahn's suggestion is that the Marines might take the census.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think that we would have any friction on that. I want to ask you gentlemen do you not think that this ought to go in the record?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes, I think that that ought to go in and be printed as a part of the hearings.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, we will put it in.

(The tables referred to as Exhibits A, B, and C, are printed in the record in full, as follows:)

EXHIBIT A

Estimated cost of collecting, compiling, and publishing data for the Fifteenth Decennial Census and carrying on annual and other investigations for fiscal years, 1930– 1932

Cost of enumeration of population and agriculture for continental

United States, Territories, and insular possessions (details of ex

penses submitted in separate statement; see Exhibits B and C). $13, 508, 000 Manufactures, 1929 (field):

Salaries_

Travel and miscellaneous expenses..

Manufactures, 1931 (field):

Salaries_

Travel and miscellaneous expenses_

$300, 000

100, 000