Mr. HILL. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Take the island of Porto Rico. Porto Rico produces sugar, I know, in great quantity.

The CHAIRMAN. And tobacco?

Mr. RANKIN. And tobacco.

Mr. MOORMAN. And livestock?

Mr. RANKIN. Pineapples, coconuts, and a great many others that are produced in California and Florida. The oranges of California come in competition with the oranges of Florida and with the oranges of Porto Rico.

Mrs. KAHN. And lemons, more than the oranges.

Mr. RANKIN. I think, with the exception of some sugar cane produced in the southern part of my State, none of these crops would come in competition with crops produced in my State, but I think it is to the interest of the people who do produce rice and sugar cane and coconuts and lemons and oranges and these other commodities in this country to know how much is produced in our insular possessions, and that are permitted to come in duty free.

Mrs. KAHN. I think that is a good idea. It could not interfere with the Philippine Islands, as long as they are taking an agricultural

census.

Mr. MOORMAN. I do not think their agriculture would amount to enough to justify it.

Mr. RANKIN. I think you are entirely wrong about that.

Mrs. KAHN. You have no idea of their large sugar plantations. Mr. RANKIN. They have rice terraces over there that nothing in the United States or anywhere else will compare with. I have been told they are fifteen hundred years old.

Mr. MOORMAN. I did not know that.

Mr. HOUSTON. They produced over 584,238 tons of sugar in the last year, or actually shipped that much into this country. Our production was only about 800,000 tons. They actually brought into the the United States from the Philippine Islands over 434,542 tons last year.

Mrs. KAHN. Besides what is shipped elsewhere. There is an enormous rice production and a great deal of tobacco, if I am rightly informed.

Mr. HOUSTON. But that would be a duplication, if they are doing it. now. But in Porto Rico, if I may be allowed to say, it probably is not provided for, so that it might be a proper thing to take an agricultural census of Porto Rico, inasmuch as this bill provides for a census of the population, but I would not suggest it, if it were to put us out of the running.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a point in regard to Porto Rico, and that is that the Federal land bank has made and is making large loans to Porto Rico. That is purely an agricultural agency, to furnish funds to farmers to develop their land and raise their crops. It would seem to me that an agricultural census of Porto Rico, under that condition, would be valuable. How does the Federal land bank operate in Hawaii?

Mr. HOUSTON. It does not operate there. It is included in a bill under presentation now.

Mr. RANKIN. Let me say another thing in regard to Porto Rico. The American people are going to have to contend with this situation. Porto Rico has 3,600 square miles, and 1,299,000 people, about 360

I think

citizens, and I believe they should be treated the same way. they should be included the same as continental United States.

Mr. RANKIN. The only Territories that the United States Government has now are Hawaii and Alaska. The others are insular possessions and are governed by entirely different laws of relationship. As far as taking an agricultural census of Alaska is concerned, I would not want over three days to take it.

Mr. HOUSTON. Is there anything further with me, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Would anybody like to make any inquiries?

Mr. MOORMAN. I think it is perfectly plain as to what he wants and what he ought to have.

Mr. HOUSTON. I think in section 16 and throughout the hearings it should be plain that the intention is that the Territory of Hawaii should be included. All you want is the authorization, I understand. Doctor HILL. Yes.

Mrs. KAHN. I came in late. May I ask what is under discussion? Mr. RANKIN. Well, Mrs. Kahn, we are discussing the Territory of Hawaii. Commander Houston is the delegate from Hawaii, and he wants Hawaii included in the agricultural census. He wants that provided for in this bill, and he has just been testifying before the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. The suggestion was made to put it in the bill that the census would include continental United States and Territories.

Mrs. KAHN. Instead of naming them-Alaska and Hawaii.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, it has just been suggested to me that some of our insular possessions are producing agricultural commodities that are in competition with those commodities produced in the United States. Take the island of Porto Rico and the Philippines. They are producing sugar, rice, and possibly other crops that are in competition with crops produced in the United States. Now, if we go so far, and I am in favor of going so far as to take an agricultural census of Hawaii and Alaska, would it not be our duty to take an agricultural census of our insular possessions-all of our possessions?

The CHAIRMAN. Then you would have to take the Philippine Islands?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mrs. KAHN. Do they take their own agricultural census?

The CHAIRMAN. Their census is taken by the War Department. Mrs. KAHN. Do they take an agricultural census?

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know.

Doctor HILL. It is taken by the Philippine Government.
Mrs. KAHN. Do they take an agricultural census there?

Doctor HILL. I think so.

Mr. AUSTIN. Yes; population and agricultural.
Mrs. KAHN. Then it is being taken anyhow?
Doctor HILL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. With the decennial census?

Doctor HILL. That has been taken in odd years. The last one was taken in 1919.

f

The CHAIRMAN. Do they take it quinquennially or decennially? Doctor HILL. At rather irregular intervals, I should say.

The CHAIRMAN. It is under the administration of the government there, is it not?

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, is Hawaii included in this bill?
The CHAIRMAN. I was just going to inquire of Doctor Hill.

says:

It

The census herein provided for shall include each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico.

Just preceding that the bill provides:

That a census of population, agriculture, and distribution shall be taken by the Director of the Census in the year 1930 and every 10 years thereafter.

I want to ask Doctor Hill if the suggestion made by the delegate from Hawaii, if what he desires is included in this line:

The census herein provided for shall include each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico.

Doctor HILL. That is perfectly explicit and definite, so far as the the decennial census of the United States is concerned, but the matter that the Delegate from Hawaii has in mind is to provide for a quinquennial census of agriculture. Which paragraph of the law is that? I do not remember. That is not so explicit.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there be any objection to making it explicit? Doctor HILL. I do not see any objection. Do you see any objection to it?

Mr. AUSTIN. I do not see any objection. When that section of the bill was drawn, it was in the 1920 census and was fathered by Mr. Burleson, of Texas. There was an amendment made that it should apply to continental United States only. There was no appropriation made in 1915 for a census of agriculture, because of the war. The bill was drawn for 1920. The same section is included in the 1920 bill as was included in the 1910 bill. It was the understanding at that time before the committee that it should apply to the continental United States only. The census of 1925 was taken according to the understanding of the law at the time the section was put in the 1920 bill.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is the section in regard to the quinquennial census?

Doctor HILL. Section 16.

The Chairman (reading):

That there shall be in the year 1934, and once every ten years thereafter, a census of agriculture and livestock, which shall show the acreage of farm land, the acreage of the principal crops, and the number and value of domestic animals on the farms and ranges of the country. The schedule employed in this census shall be prepared by the Director of the Census.

That was taken to apply to the continental United States, but did not apply to Porto Rico. You did not take a census in Porto Rico? Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir.

Mr. HOUSTON. They are insular possessions of the United States. The CHAIRMAN. Did you take a census in Alaska?

Doctor HILL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. If we include Hawaii, it would seem to me that we should also include the other two Territories and Guam and Samoa.

Mr. MOORMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am impressed that they are entitled to the same consideration in that particular as any other

85244-28- -13

people per square mile. At least half of it does not produce a thing in the world. I do not mind saying that I never saw such poverty in my life as I saw in the southern part of Porto Rico. I do not see how they live. We are going to have to get information as to what they produce there, because those people are under our flag. It is part of the American Republic, you might say.

Mrs. KAHN. It seems to me that would be extremely valuable information.

Mr. RANKIN. It seems so to me.

Mrs. KAHN. I think we ought to include Hawaii, Porto Rico and Alaska. As long as the Philippine Islands take it themselves, we can not do it. I think, as far as the others are concerned we ought to have it.

Mr. TRUESDELL. The bill as it stands provides for a decennial census of all our possessions.

Mrs. KAHN. But not of agriculture.

Doctor HILL. It is only the quinquennial census that comes

in 1934.

Mr. HOUSTON. If there is nothing further, Mr. Chairman, I will retire.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe there is nothing further. Thank you very much for coming.

Mr. RANKIN. You say the bill provides for a census of all our possessions?

Mr. TRUESDELL. Yes, except the Philippine Islands.

Mr. RANKIN. Why could we not also include in that provision an agricultural census of all our possessions?

Mr. TRUESDELL. The decennial agricultural census is provided for, which was taken in 1920.

Mr. RANKIN. I mean the quinquennial agricultural census.

Mr. TRUESDELL. The question is whether it is important enough to justify it.

Mr. MOORMAN. What would be the additional expense of having a quinquennial census of agriculture taken?

Mr. TRUESDELL. Not so very much, in proportion to the other

cost.

Mr. RANKIN. I am not so much concerned about quibbling over the expense. As long as we can spend $700,000,000 a year for a navy, we can spend a little on this.

Mr. MOORMAN. I did not mean it from that standpoint.
Mr. RANKIN. I know you did not.

Mr. MOORMAN. I was attempting to show that the cost would be inconsequential. That is what I thought it would show.

Mrs. KAHN. It seems to me that statistics 10 years old are not so tremendously valuable. I mean regarding agricultural products. If you want it to be valuable, I should say statistics 5 years old would be twice as valuable as statistics 10 years old.

Mr. MOORMAN. I would like to have the gentleman representing the Census Bureau say how much additional it would cost to take a quinquennial census.

Mr. GOSNELL. It would run from $200,000 to $250,000 to cover Alaska, Hawaii, and orto Rico.

Virgin Islands and Guam?
add probably $10,000 more.
008,8

Mr. RANKIN. I am in favor of putting them all in. Let me ask another question, if Mr. Moorman is through.

Mr. MOORMAN. Go ahead, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Why could we not have an agricultural census of the Philippine Islands taken by your bureau? I understand they take the census of population through the War Department, but we have no jurisdiction over the War Department or over bills going to the War Department. It seems to me that if we are going to get this information, the object of which is to find out just exactly what we are producing in an agricultural way, we ought to have this information also with reference to the Philippines.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask, how satisfactory has the census taken by the War Department of the Philippines been?

Mr. GOSNELL. Dr. Hill might answer that.

The CHAIRMAN. How satisfactory has it been? There seems to be some feeling that the War Department is not taking a proper census of the Phillippines, and that it should be taken by the Census Bureau. I would want to be convinced that the War Department is taking an inefficient census, and that might be a reason for changing the system, before I would favor it. The question is whether the War Department is fulfilling its duty.

Doctor HILL. This last census was not taken by the War Department, but by the Philippine Government.

The CHAIRMAN. How satisfactory has been the census taken by the Philippine Government? If we are going to change the system we should have some reason for it.

Doctor HILL. I can not say that any serious criticism has come to my attention.

The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me that is fundamental. If it has not been satisfactory, we should change the system, and it would require considerable evidence and knowledge as to why it should be changed. Mr. MOORMAN. Might I ask one question?

The CHAIRMAN. Surely.

Mr. MOORMAN. Doctor, would you say that the information that you got from the census they have taken is as complete and reffects all the essentials as well as the census taken the way it is taken in the United States?

Doctor HILL. It covers about the same details, I should say. I confess that I am not very familiar with it.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Did they confer with you at all in the drawing up of their schedule?

Doctor HILL. I do not think they have.

Mrs. KAHN. It is all done in the Philippine Islands? It does not emanate from here at all?

Doctor HILL. I think not.

Mr. AUSTIN. The first census of the Philippines was taken by the War Department. That covered everything, manufacturers, population, agriculture, and everything else. There were four volumes of it. The last census was taken by the Philippine Government, and followed out the plan that was first followed, as far as they could. It covered about the same that was covered by the United States.

Mr. MOORMAN. Might I ask by whom the cost of that census was paid? Did the United States pay it in the end, or any part of it?