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Mr. Rankin. I am in favor of putting them all in. Let me ask another question, if Mr. Moorman is through.

Mr. MOORMAN. Go ahead, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Why could we not have an agricultural census of the Philippine Islands taken by your bureau? I understand they take the census of population through the War Department, but we have no jurisdiction over the War Department or over bills going to the War Department. It seems to me that if we are going to get this information, the object of which is to find out just exactly what we are producing in an agricultural way, we ought to have this information also with reference to the Philippines.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask, how satisfactory has the census taken by the War Department of the Philippines been? Mr. GOSNELL. Dr. Hill might answer that.

The CHAIRMAN. How satisfactory has it been? There seems to be some feeling that the War Department is not taking a proper census of the Phillippines, and that it should be taken by the Census Bureau. I would want to be convinced that the War Department is taking an inefficient census, and that might be a reason for changing the system, before I would favor it. The question is whether the War Department is fulfilling its duty.

Doctor Hill. This last census was not taken by the War Department, but by the Philippine Government.

The CHAIRMAN. How satisfactory has been the census taken by the Philippine Government? If we are going to change the system we should have some reason for it.

Doctor HILL. I can not say that any serious criticism has come to my attention.

The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me that is fundamental. If it has not been satisfactory, we should change the system, and it would require considerable evidence and knowledge as to why it should be changed. Mr. MOORMAN. Might I ask one question? The CHAIRMAN. Surely. Mr. MOORMAN. Doctor, would you say that the information that you got from the census they have taken is as complete and reffects all the essentials as well as the census taken the way it is taken in the United States?

Doctor Hill. It covers about the same details, I should say. I confess that I am not very familiar with it. · Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Did they confer with you at all in the drawing up of their schedule?

Doctor Hill. I do not think they have. Mrs. Kain. It is all done in the Philippine Islands? It does not emanate from here at all?

Doctor HILL. I think not.

Mr. Austin. The first census of the Philippines was taken by the War Department. That covered everything, manufacturers, population, agriculture, and everything else. There were four volumes of it. The last census was taken by the Philippine Government, and followed out the plan that was first followed, as far as they could. It covered about the same that was covered by the United States.

Mr. MOORMAN. Might I ask by whom the cost of that census was paid? Did the United States pay it in the end, or any part of it?

Mr. AUSTIN. I can not answer that question. The Philippine government took the census, and appointed all the officers, enumerators, supervisors, and other officers, and I suppose it paid all the expenses.

Mrs. Kahn. I think it is generally understood the Philippine government pays its own expenses.

Mr. LOZIER. Is this Philippine census substantially as comprehensive as the census taken by the Bureau of the Census?

Mr. Austin. It would be, as far as the islands are concerned.

Mr. RANKIN. Except they do not take a census of agriculture; at least, they do not take such a census every five years. Therefore, we do not have the figures to show just what is produced under the American flag. We have a great many people in this country who are in direct competition with agriculture in the Philippine Islands. Whether we can get it through this committee or not I do not know, but I think we ought to have an agricultural census of all the Territories and all the insular possessions of the United States.

Mr. Austin. We do not have the same blanks in the insular possessions of the United States. We prepared separate blanks for Hawaii, Guam, Alaska, and the others, covering what was applicable there in agriculture. We did that in 1920.

Mr. LOZIER. You adjusted the schedule to fit the conditions of the particular dependency?

Mr. AUSTIN. Yes, sir. Their schedules were not nearly so comprehensive.

Mr. LOZIER. May I ask, Mr. Rankin, whether or not much of this information relating to agriculture and forestry in the Philippine Islands and other dependencies is given out by the Bureau of Foreign Cremerce of the Department of Commerce?

DR. RANKIN. I do not know about that, but I understand they O take this census of agriculture, at least, they did not take it ere have years, as we are proposing here.

Mr LOZIER. But does not the Bureau of Foreign Commerce show What time exports of agriculture, horticulture, and forestry products were the Philippines and other dependencies? In other words, do We Lot get that information through the Bureau of Foreign Commerce of the Department of Commerce?

The CHAIRMAN. It might show it in respect to foreign countries, but would not show it from the Philippines to the United States.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. I believe it would show what would come to our country but would not cover domestic consumption in the Philippines.

Doctor Hill. No.

Mr. LOZIER. But it would show the importations and the exportations and the countries to which the products were exported?

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Yes.

Mr. LOZIER. For instance, how much of the Philippine commodties are imported into the United States?

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Mr. JACOBSTEIN. May I ask whether Mr. Rankin is interested in extending the census to the Philippines?

The CHAIRMAN. We have had some difficulty about it. The census has been taken by the Philippine Government, and I think we would have to be rather careful about taking it away from the Philippine Government and imposing it on some other agency. I do not know what their disposition would be about that. Sometimes they are rather sensitive about these things.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Why would it not be appropriate to inquire into the jurisdiction on that point, and then report back to our committee, so we can take action?

The CHAIRMAN. We have been going nearly a month, and it is my purpose to bring these hearings to a close as soon as possible. If we can expedite matters in any way, I think we will be able to do it.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. That could be reported to us in executive session.

The CHAIRMAN. If he will ascertain that I will be glad to have him do it.

Mr. RANKIN. I will take it up with the proper authorities and see if I can get some information on it. I want you to bear in mind that . there are as many farmers in the Philippine Islands as there are possibly in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia, and they are all making their living out of the ground.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it is highly valuable information, but how to get it is the question.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Nobody seems to be opposed to it.

The CHAIRMAN. Nobody is opposed to it, but the difficulty would be whether that change in the system is warranted.

Mr. MOORMAN. We should get it all from one source, and have it issued in one book.

Mr. RANKIN. There might be some way that we could ask the Philippine Government, when they take that census, to also take an agricultural census, and take it every five years. I think we should know what is being produced under the American flag.

Mr. HIRSCH. In the Virgin Islands I do not believe it is necessary. I helped take the census there in 1918. The agricultural interests are not very great. Very few people are engaged in agriculture there. Sugar seems to be the principal thing, on Santa Cruz Island.

Mr. RANKIN. I have about come to the conclusion that the less they produce the more necessary it is to take the census there. I was in Alaska, and I heard more about the great agricultural possibilities of Alaska than I ever heard about Pennsylvania, one of the greatest agricultural States in the Union. In Alaska they produce cucumbers and tomatoes in hothouses. There was a little wheat sowed near Fairbanks, and in 1922 the ground froze in August and killed every stalk of it. It is a joke to everybody who is not interested in boosting it for Alaskan purposes. I think we ought to know where they do not produce very much, in order that it may not be used as propaganda.

Mr. HIRSCH. Once every 10 years would seem to be sufficient.

Mr. RANKIN. I do not know. They may not produce much more crops in five years, but they produce a good deal more propaganda when they ask for appropriations.

Mr. LOZIER. I had occasion a few years ago to make a study of commodities produced in our dependencies and shipped out to the United States and other nations, and also to show Canada's grip

on the markets of the Philippines and China and Japan and other foreign countries. I had to go to a number of bureaus and departments and commissions to get my information, but I finally got it, and I believe that the information Vír. Rankin is talking about, which I think is important, we can get now from the various departments. I know I got it with reference to wheat and other commodities. Of course, it is true that the Philippines are under a different form of government, and are subject to the regulation and control of the War Department, and we have not yet reached the point to have the statistics and census data consolidated in one department. I believe the time will come when all will be consolidated in one department in the Bureau of the Census, but at the present time I doubt whether we are in a position to attempt to consolidate these various census agencies under the Bureau of the Census.

Jír. RANKIN. I am not after that. I am after getting in some way an agricultural census of the Philippine Islands every five years. If we can get it through the Philippine Government, which is, after all, the Government of the United States, that will be satisfactory, but we should get it in some way and get it as accurately as possible.

Vr. GOSNELL. I would like to state that in making the estimate of $200,000 or $250,000, corering the cost of an agricultural census, it did not include the Philippine Islands.

Nr. RANKIN. We understood that.
Mrs. Kahn. We knew that.

Mr. LOZIER. Apropos of the suggestion of the chairman that we ought to get this bill before the House as soon as possible, in which I heartily concur

The CHAIRMAN, I did not mean that I wanted to cut off discussion.

Vír. LOZIER. I understand that. I would like to ask Doctor Hill if this bill were now a law, when would your activities begin? When do you think you should begin the construction of machinery for the taking of this census?

Doctor HILL. The bill, of course, goes into effect the 1st of July, 1929. That is what we call the census period. We would have all the authority in this bill at that time, but as a matter of fact, we are making preparation for the next census now. We are doing a lot of work. We are studying the field and finding out conditions in different parts of the country.

Jir. VOORMAX. The taking of a census is a continuous proposition? You prepare in advance?

Doctor Hill. Yes. As soon as this bill is passed we will feel free to do a great many things we do not feel free to do now.

Vir. LOZIER. It is really important that the legislation be enacted ? Doctor Hill. Yes, sir.

Mr. LOZIER. So you will know just exactly what authority you have?

Doctor HILL. Yes, sir,
Mr. LOZIER. And you are now working to that end?
Doctor HILL. Yes, sir.

Although the census period does not begin until July

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Mr. LOZIER. Is that the point?

Doctor HILL. That is just exactly the point. Just as soon as the bill is passed we will be in a position to know what we can do and what we can not do.

Mr. LOZIER. And the fact that the census period does not begin until July, 1929, does not make it unnecessary for an immediate and early consideration of this bill?

Doctor HILL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The idea was that we could get it through at this session, so the bureau would know what they would have to do and be able to prepare for it.

Doctor HILL. It is very important that it should be passed at this session. If you succeed in doing that, you will succeed in doing something that has never been done before. At every census heretofore the bill has been passed about March 3 in the year preceding the census period. For some reason or other, I do not know why, they have never succeeded in getting a bill through in time.

Mr. RANKIN. As far as the House is concerned, I think we will pass this bill before this Congress adjourns.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to ask Mr. Gosnell to go a little more into detail in regard to this schedule of costs he has given to us. I think each member of the committee was furnished with a copy of the schedule.

Mr. RANKIN. Suppose we insert this schedule in the record at this point, and then follow it up with questions?

The CHAIRMAN. We will do that. The schedule may be inserted in the record at this point.

(The document referred to is as follows:) T EHOHO

Approximate cost of taking Fifteenth Census of the United States and carrying on regular work of bureau for three-year period. Administrative division

$1, 045, 000 Salaries and expenses of regional disbursing offices -

100, 000 Geographers' division -

540, 000 Population office...

5, 500, 000 Agriculture office---

3, 000, 000 Enumeration of population and agriculture.

13, 408, 000 Manufactures:

$1, 000, 000 5 6 Field -----

800, 000

1,800,000 Distribution: Office

- 1,250,000
- 2, 000, 000

3, 250, 000 Supplies and equipment --

1, 320, 000

1, 800, 000 LION Total decennial inquiries_

31, 763, 000 Annual and other investigations during decennial census period.--- 3,000,000 on Grand total -----

34, 763, 000 Estimated cost continental United States.

13, 073, 000 Compensation of enumerators.--.

10, 673, 000 Administrative field.-----

- 2, 400, 000 Estimated cost, outlying possessions --

--- 335, 000

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