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Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Who appoints them?

Mr. GOSNELL. They are appointed by the Secretary of Commerce, on the recommendation of the director of the bureau. Mr. JACOBSTEIN. And where does he get the names?

Mr. GOSNELL. At the 1920 census the supervisors were appointed largely upon the recommendation of Congressmen.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. So they become political appointees?
Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir; very likely.
Mrs. KAHN. And the enumerators?
Mr. GOSNELL. They are appointed by the supervisors.
Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Do you think that is a good thing?

Mr. GOSNELL. I do not see any objection. I believe the Congressmen representing the districts are as much or more interested than anybody else...

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. I have never been here at a census-taking period, and do not know how it is done.

Mr. THURSTON. That condition does not exist in my State.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. No. In Iowa the people are so intelligent they may act differently.

Mr. THURSTON. There is no machine out there. Mr. JACOBSTEIN. In my State the census was recently taken, and the State political machine dictated the appointments, and there was a very serious scandal.

The CHAIRMAN. A good deal of criticism.
Mr. JACOBSTEIN. A good deal of criticism.

Mr. GOSNELL. Do you think that was due to that method of appointment?

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. I think the interference of the political machine was responsible. I do not care which machine it is, Republican or Democratic. The fact that all these people are outside civil service, they become political appointees, and the State machine in my State interfered with the operation and efficiency of the administration of the law, with a result that a perfectly good woman went wrong, so to speak, in the administration of the census.

The CHAIRMAN. You had a good deal of trouble, anyway. Mr. GREENWOOD. I would like to ask how these recommendations are followed, whether with regard to politics or not.

The CHAIRMAN. That is not in the bill.

Mr. GREENWOOD. I know, but I want the information from the witness. I want to know if written recommendations of the Congressmen are received and if they are generally followed in all districts, or just followed by the political party?

Mr. GOSNELL. In the last decennial census, which was taken under a Democratic administration, there were Republicans appointed as well as Democrats, and some Republicans were appointed upon the recommendation of the Republican organization.

The CHAIRMAN. And some were appointed on the recommendation of Republican Congressmen?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. GREENWOOD. The written recommendation of the Congressmen?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORMAN. I am a Democrat in a Democratic district. If it is to be left to the Congressmen to make recommendations, what I would like to know is whether or not my recommendation will be

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recognized, or whether the Republican Senator from my State could recommend somebody else, perhaps not so well qualified, and have him appointed? I just want to know whether it will be a political proposition, or whether the Congressmen who really suggest the supervisors and enumerators will be recognized?

The CHAIRMAN. What do they do with postmasters in your district?

Mr. MOORMAN. I have one case where a man took the examination for postmaster and was the only eligible on the list. They would not give him the appointment. They held another examination and he took it and was again the only eligible, and they would not appoint him. They sent an examiner down there and put the woman on the list as an eligible, who failed in both examinations, and if you will wait about two weeks she will get the appointment.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the Post Office Department, or the representative of the Republican party down there?

Mr. MOORMAN. I do not know who it is but I am going to find out. I have never made a speech in the House yet, but I am going to let them hear about it on the floor of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. In the State I represent, in another administration, we had but one Congressman of the opposite party, and he recommended a lot of postmasters who were appointed.

Mr. GREENWood. It was this proposition that we were discussing when the civil service man was here.

Mr. LOZIER. I do not know what will be the practical operation of this census taking machinery. I do not believe it will be subject to the abuses that existed in New York and possibly in other States, because, if I know anything about the Census Bureau, I think it is as free from partisanship as any activity of the Government. I believe that the Census Bureau will be actuated by a sincere desire to take an accurate census. I do not believe that it will be subject to partisan politics.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. I have such high regard for them that I want to give them full and complete authority.

Mr. MOORMAN. So do I.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. I do not want to be bothered by the appointment of these men. I would rather see the bureau have complete power to do it.

Mr. LOZIER. I am more interested in giving the enumerators an adequate compensation than anything else. If we want to have an accurate census, I am afraid, with our desire to curtail expenses, we will not pay the enumerators as much as they are entitled to.

The CHAIRMAN. From the schedule given out by Mr. Gosnell, I think it will be quite an advance over the schedule of 10 years ago. Mr. GOSNELL. About 20 per cent. Mr. WHITE. Is the pay the same throughout the entire country? Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir; it varies. Mr. JACOBSTEIN. And they will receive expenses and per diem?

Mr. GOSNELL. The enumerators will not; that is only for the supervisors. Yet in the rural districts the enumerators will have to use automobiles and go to considerable expense.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. How about the per diem? Mr. GOSNELL. The average earnings should run from $5 to $6 per day.

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Mr. MOORMAN. As far as Kentucky is concerned, here is the way I feel about my district. I am willing to leave it to you gentlemen, because I believe you will do what is right about it. But the thing I would object to would be somebody else suggesting some people and you being embarrassed by having to appoint them, when they might not be as well qualified as others who are suggested. As far as I am concerned, I think you should have a free hand. I do not think the civil-service people are responsible for post-office conditions. I think they want to do what is right about it, but it is politics. I would like for you gentlemen to be given full authority to name anybody you desire.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all in the hands of the Director of the Census, under the bill.

Mr. GOSNELL. If the director does not consider a man qualified, he does not appoint him.

Mr. JACOBSTEIN. Does he interview the supervisor personally?

Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir; but we have persons to interview them personally. Some of them are called to Washington.

Mr. JACORSTEIN. Your supervisors are interviewed by some one in authority ?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MOORMAN. Before you name a supervisor of the census in my district, would you consult or give the Congressmen in that district an opportunity to either agree or object, before you appoint him?

Mr. GOSNELL. I do not know what the procedure will be in the next census. I am only speaking of the last decennial census.

The CHAIRMAN. That would be determined by the director?
Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. The director makes recommendations to the Secretary of Commerce?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. RANKIN. Does the Secretary of Commerce ever override the director, or does he always follow his recommendations.

Mr. GOSNELL. I think he always follows his recommendations.

Mr. THURSTON. There will be a different administration when this work is done. Mr. JACOBSTEIN. It is to be hoped. The CHAIRMAN. We will adjourn until tomorrow morning at 10.30.

(Whereupon, at 12 o'clock noon, the committee adjourned until to-morrow, Wednesday, February 1, 1928, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.)

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The committee convened in the committee room, House Office Building, at 10.30 a. m., Hon. E. Hart Fenn (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. Commander Houston, delegate from Hawaii, wishes to say a few words in regard to the census in Hawaii. If there are no objections, we will hear from him now.

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STATEMENT OF HON. VICTOR S. K. HOUSTON, A DELEGATE IN

CONGRESS FROM THE TERRITORY OF HAWAII Mr. HOUSTON. Mr. Chairman, in the recent distribution of Part 1 of the United States Census of Agriculture, my attention is called to the fact that Hawaii is not covered in the report. Only the 48 States and the District of Columbia are covered. I took occasion to write on this subject to the Secretary of Commerce, and got from him an acknowledgment of the fact, inclosing a memorandum from Doctor Hill, in which Doctor Hill said this:

I trust that when the next quinquennial census of agriculture comes to be taken in 1935, it will be made perfectly clear by legislative enactment, if necessary, what territory that census shall cover. As to the decennial census the law was explicit. It said it should cover each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico.

The CHAIRMAN. That is in the bill. Mr. Houston. It is in the 1920 census. I do not know what is in the bill.

The CHAIRMAN. This bill provides that it “shall include each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico."

Mr. HOUSTON. Section 31 of the old bill, which provided for the 1925 census of agriculture, does not designate the area to be covered, and Doctor Hill said that he undertsood the intention to be that it should be a less comprehensive census than the decennial census and should cover only the continental United States.

I wrote a second letter to the Secretary of Commerce, in which I

said:

It is apparent from the memorandum that the restriction was the consequence, not of the legislation, but was forwarded as a result of the estimate submitted to Congress by the department.

In section 1 that is made explicit, because it includes Porto Rico. It also appears that the statutory enactment of Congress, passed on May 27, 1910, includes Hawaii in all laws covering general appropriation. Section 5, to which I referred, provides:

Except as otherwise provided, all laws of the United States, including laws covering general appropriations, which are not locally applicable, shall have the same force and effect within the said territory as within the United States.

Section 5 referred to is the organic act for the government of the Territory of Hawaii.

I might add that the principal income of the territory, from which all our taxes are derived, all the taxes we pay to the United States, comes from the agricultural interests, which produce sugar, pineapples, coffee. It was the source of a great deal of distress to us to know that we were not included in the census of agriculture.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you speaking of the act authorizing the census of 1910? Mr. HOUSTON. 1920. The CHAIRMAN. I think you said 1910. Mr. HOUSTON. I intended to say 1920. That also provided for the quinquennial census of 1925, the result of which is just now being published.

Besides sugar, pineapples, and coffee, we have dairy products and cattle ranches, all of which would probably fall under the same category. We would like very much to be included in future censuses.

Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Chairman, is Hawaii included in this bill? ".

The CHAIRMAN. I was just going to inquire of Doctor Hill. It says:

The census herein provided for shall include each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico.

Just preceding that the bill provides:

That a census of population, agriculture, and distribution shall be taken by the Director of the Census in the year 1930 and every 10 years thereafter.

I want to ask Doctor Hill if the suggestion made by the delegate from Hawaii, if what he desires is included in this line:

The census herein provided for shall include each State, the District of Columbia, Alaska, Hawaii, and Porto Rico.

Doctor Hill. That is perfectly explicit and definite, so far as the the decennial census of the United States is concerned, but the matter that the Delegate from Hawaii has in mind is to provide for a quinquennial census of agriculture. Which paragraph of the law is that? I do not remember. That is not so explicit.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there be any objection to making it explicit?

Doctor Hill. I do not see any objection. Do you see any objection to it?

Mr. AUSTIN. I do not see any objection. When that section of the bill was drawn, it was in the 1920 census and was fathered by Mr. Burleson, of Texas. There was an amendment made that it should apply to continental United States only. There was no appropriation made in 1915 for a census of agriculture, because of the war. The bill was drawn for 1920. The same section is included in the 1920 bill as was included in the 1910 bill. It was the understanding at that time before the committee that it should apply to the continental United States only. The census of 1925 was taken according to the understanding of the law at the time the section was put in the 1920 bill.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is the section in regard to the quinquennial census? 1 Doctor Hill. Section 16.

The Chairman (reading) :

That there shall be in the year 1934, and once every ten years thereafter, a census of agriculture and livestock, which shall show the acreage of farm land, the acreage of the principal crops, and the number and value of domestic animals on the farms and ranges of the country. The schedule employed in this census shall be prepared by the Director of the Census.

That was taken to apply to the continental United States, but did not apply to Porto Rico. You did not take a census in Porto Rico?

Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir.
Mr. HOUSTON. They are insular possessions of the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you take a census in Alaska?
Doctor HILL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. If we include Hawaii, it would seem to me that we should also include the other two Territories and Guam and Samoa.

Mr. MOORMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am impressed that they are entitled to the same consideration in that particular as any other LEO 85244—28— 13

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