Mr. WHITE. Is not April a better time to collect that information than the preceding year? Is it not more feasible to collect it then than in December?

Doctor HILL. It may be.

Mr. WHITE. I would like to record this statement, that in my State the feeding of cattle for market is a very large industry indeed, it is quite prominent, and the information can not be secured in the month of December. It carries on until the spring months of the year, frequently until May, or generally until March and April. That applies to cattle, swine, and so forth, raised and sold for market and for slaughter.

The CHAIRMAN. Fattened livestock?

Mr. WHITE. Yes.

Doctor HILL. I am not an agricultural economist; I had some practical experience on a farm up in New Hampshire, in my youth; and I have given you, I believe, the views of the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. MOORMAN. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman bases his statement not upon his experience, or the desires of his department particularly, but upon what the Department of Agriculture says about it and thinks about it, and I feel that we should have a representative of the Department of Agriculture before us.

The CHAIRMAN. The chairman will take that into consideration. Doctor HILL. In view of that situation

Mr. RANKIN. Doctor, do you not think that the question raised by Mr. White, the gentleman from Kansas, with reference to the slaughter of livestock and the fattening of livestock, would offset the objection that calves, etc., are born in the spring.

Doctor HILL. Partially, at least.

Mr. RANKIN. The greatest crop grown in America, of course, is cotton. I think you will find that the cotton crop sells for approximately twice as much as the wheat crop sells for; at least, almost twice as much, taking the seed.

The CHAIRMAN. How about the corn crop?

Mr. RANKIN. Corn, or course, is the biggest crop in America. We raise about 3,000,000,000 bushels-between 2,500,000,000 and 3,000,000,000 bushels.

Now take this cotton proposition. It would be an absolute impossibility to get the correct statistics on either cotton or cottonseed as early as the 1st of December, would it not?

Doctor HILL. I suppose it would.

Mr. RANKIN. Your figures show, I think, that over a million bales of cotton are ginned, as a rule, after the 1st of December; is not that correct?

Doctor HILL. I think so. I am not familiar with the figures.

Mr. RANKIN. So far as the cotton crop is concerned, would not that fact offset any disadvantage that might arise from the number of farmers you would find that had changed farms?

Doctor HILL. I should think it would, partially, at least.

Mr. RANKIN. I just wanted to get your views on those two things. Doctor HILL. As I say, I am not speaking as a expert on those

matters.

Mr. RANKIN. I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not the object of the census to ascertain the amounts of everything in this country that can be obtained; for instance, crops, population, manufactures?

Doctor HILL. Yes; everything.

The CHAIRMAN. All the elements that enter into the country? Doctor HILL. Everything that enters into the line of production that it is practicable to obtain.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, of course, that census must be taken within a certain time. There will be some crops, perhaps, that could not be as accurately obtained at the date set in any bill as others would be; but the object of the census is to ascertain the figures for the census of the country within a certain time.

If we tried to adjust the census to the cutting of the hay crop in Maine, which comes very late, and the potato crop in Maine, with the crops in southern California, with all of these different dates, we would have a spread such that it would take a year to take the census, with the enumerators going about for an entire year; and I do not see how it can be arrived at unless we do empirically set a certain date. It would take the full data for corn and it would take the full data for cotton. It may not take it as we would like it, but it will give the number of cattle in the United States for this period. It will give the number of calves, but it can not give the number of unborn pigs, because they are not there; but it will give the pigs that are in existence. The census must be taken within certain limitations and as near as possible to suit, and get an accurate census of the entire country. But if we attempt to adjust the census to this great country, to all its different parts, with the apple crop in Oregon and the orange crop in Florida and all the other crops which come on different dates, it will run throughout the whole year. In some countries they take their census of population in one day. Doctor HILL. They do it in England.

I

The CHAIRMAN. In England they take it in one day. Of course that is a comparatively small country. They do it in France. am not suggesting that we do it in one day, because that would be impracticable; but we have to confine ourselves, in the bill, to certain dates. What the dates should be I have no opinion; but if we attempt to adjust this to every crop and every breed of cattle or every different form of livestock in the country, it will be impracticable. My friend says they cut alfalfa in Kansas the 1st of June.

In Maine the hay crop, which is one of the most important crops in the State, is not ripened and the hay is not cut until quite late in the fall, and the potato crop will vary in different parts of the country; so that I think that when we get the bill into shape we will have to bear that in mind, that we must give due consideration to all of these crops; and yet at the same time put in a limitation, because the chief thing to be ascertained is the census of these different valuable things within certain dates, and when we arrive at those dates the Census Bureau can go ahead and take it.

Mr. RANKIN. You can cut alfalfa in April.

The CHAIRMAN. The date to be arrived at, it seems to me, is when most of the farmers are on their plantations, and at the same time when the crops are harvested-if possible, to ascertain that as nearly as possible when the crops are harvested-and the man knows. I

can not say what he is going to sell it for, because a great many of the farmers in our country hold their tobacco back a good while, I believe.

Mr. MOORMAN. Yes.

Mr. GREENWOOD. What suggests itself to me as a much more important proposition is the season of the year. The weather conditions at certain seasons of the year, it seems to me, are a much more important matter than it is to get a certain date.

Dr. HILL. I know weather conditions have a lot to do with getting the information. We found that out 10 years ago when we started the 1st of January to take the census.

The CHAIRMAN. What I have said, gentlemen and ladies of the committee, has been to bring out your ideas in regard to this, and not to give you my ideas, because I have not any opinion.

Mr. RANKIN. On that suggestion, doctor, taking what you found out 10 years ago, and from all your experience, you think April would be a much better time to take the census of population, do you not?

Doctor HILL. It would be a better time than January.

Mr. RANKIN. Or December?

Doctor HILL. Or December, I should think.

The CHAIRMAN. The suggestion of the department is April 1. So far as the census of population is concerned, that seems to be a pretty good date, do you not think so?

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

In that case we

Doctor HILL. Therefore, in deciding upon the date under the law when this census should be taken, in accordance with the opinion of the Department of Agriculture, we proceeded upon the assumption that the census of agriculture, at any rate, should be taken in the late fall; and then the question came up, which fall? Should we take it in the fall of the decennial year, 1930? would have to cover the crops of 1930. Heretofore the census of agriculture has always covered the crops of the ninth year, i. e., 1909, 1919, etc. So that it seems to us, so far as the census of agriculture is concerned, it is best to take it in the fall of 1929. Therefore we fixed it upon that date.

Coming now to the census of population, the question was whether or not we should take the census of population in the fall of 1929. There were a good many of us there in the census those who were in conference, at least who felt a reluctance to break away from the decennial year in taking the census of population.

Beginning with 1790, the census of population has been taken in the tenth year, and we did not quite like to go over to the ninth year. I might say we have experimented in taking the census of population in recent censuses. For a time it used to be taken as of the 1st of June, and we found it was a bad time because many people had gone away then on their summer vacations. Then we went back to April, in 1910, and we abandoned the census in April mainly for these reasons I have given, because in the opinion of the Department of Agriculture, at any rate, that was a bad time for the census of agri

culture.

The CHAIRMAN. For agriculture?

Doctor HILL. Yes; it was good for the population, but bad for agriculture. That was the assumption on which we proceeded. So we went back to January and took both censuses in January. We ran into big snows and very bad weather conditions and these delayed us in various parts of the country.

Coming back to this question, I want to say that we perhaps paid too much attention to what might be called sentimental reasons for taking the census in the tenth year. There will certainly be considerable economy in taking the two censuses together, as well as certain other advantages; and if we are to take the census of agriculture as of the 1st of November, 1929, we should take the census of population at the same date, even though it may not be in the tenth year. This is not my individual opinion. I have talked it over with my colleagues, and I talked it over with Mr. Steuart before he went away, and he said it would be agreeable to him to make the censuses together.

The CHAIRMAN. That would necessitate an amendment to the bill?

Doctor HILL. That would necessitate an amendment to the bill; yes, I am sorry to say; but I think it ought to be done, so that would be my recommendation in regard to that point.

The CHAIRMAN. You would take the decennial census the year preceding the even date of 1930?

Doctor HILL. Yes; and that is not so great a change as it seems, because we took it last time as of the 1st of January. Now, if we go back two months we are still covering a decennial period less two months. We are within two months of the completion of the decennial period. It sounds greater than it is.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there not be sentimental opposition to that?

Doctor HILL. I apprehend there may be; yes.

Mr. RANKIN. The Constitution provided the census should be taken in 1790, and then during every 10-year period thereafter. Doctor HILL. Every 10 years thereafter.

Mr. RANKIN. If you took this census in the fall of 1929, would not that bring together the census of 1920 and the census of 1930 both within that one 10-year period?

Doctor HILL. Yes; within that period.

The CHAIRMAN. I think there would be constitutional questions there.

Doctor HILL. Just one point I want to bring out in that connection before we adjourn. This question of the taking of the population census in the fall has been brought up more than once, as I know, having had to read the report, but it has always been met with this objection, that if you put the census in the fall of the year, probably, as far as the stability of the population is concerned, it is about as good a time as any. You can not get the American population all at home at any time.

Mr. RANKIN. Not now.

Doctor HILL. But if it was put in the fall, every other census would coincide with a presidential election, and we certainly could not organize a good census in the midst of the excitement of an

election. But if we take the ninth year, it will never coincide with a presidential election.

Mr. RANKIN. Suppose we find that there is a constitutional objection to taking it in 1929, and possibly there are other objections, and the committee should decide that it is necessary to carry it over to the year 1930; your recommendation is that they both be taken at the same time.

Doctor HILL. I think they ought to be.

Mr. RANKIN. I think you are correct; I will say that. Then what time of the year would you have it taken-January or February, or March, or April, or May, or June, or later?

Doctor HILL. If you carried it to 1930, I think the fall of the year is the best time, and I should say it should be taken in the fall of 1930.

Mr. RANKIN. You would not recommend January, would you?
Doctor HILL. No.

Mr. GREENWOOD. What length of time is given to the taking of the census now?

Doctor HILL. We hope to wind up the bulk of the work in about a month or six weeks; would you not say so, Mr. Gosnell?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Doctor HILL. But in case there is some reason, as for instance enumerators falling down on the job, sometimes we do not get the last returns before six months.

The CHAIRMAN. You get the population figures later than you do the agriculture figures?

Doctor HILL. No; we get them both at the same time.

Mr. MOORMAN. Do you base your entire objection to the taking of the census in April on the reasons that you have assigned before this committee?

Doctor HILL. Yes.

Mr. MOORMAN. Do you think that those reasons are sufficient to control the matter, even in the event that it might be determined to take the censuses together, as you advocate, and take them in April, 1930?

Mr. RANKIN. I am just as strong on taking the agricultural census later, in the spring, as I am the census of population. You know I represent a cotton State. The cotton crop in the United States sells for more than any other agricultural crop produced. If you take this census in the fall of the year and stand by that census, it will be a physical impossibility, will it not, to include the entire cotton crop for that year?

Doctor HILL. I suppose it would be.

Mr. RANKIN. Then what is the census worth of the cotton crop of 1929, when you leave it suspended in midair with anywhere from 300,000 to 1,500,000 bales of cotton unaccounted for?

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you took it the 1st of April?

Mr. RANKIN. The last ginning occurs about March; that is the last ginning report, is not that right, Mr. Austin?

Mr. AUSTIN. March 20.

Mr. RANKIN. And that is considered the cotton crop of the preceding year; and any time after that you can get an accurate census of the cotton crop.