Mr. DUCLOS. They get a good substantial meal in the morningead and oatmean and honey, and three times a week bacon and gs and milk. Mr. TILLMAN. At lunch what do you give them? Mr. DUCLOS. Bread and beans and potatoes and vegetables and esert three or four times a week. Mr. TILLMAN. At dinner? Mr. DUCLOs. Dinner is at noon. Mr. DUCLOS. Meat and stew and beans, plenty of beans. They are ery fond of beans. Mr. TILLMAN. Do they ever complain like white people of not geting absolutely enough to eat? Mr. DUCLOS. When I am superintendent of a school there is plenty on the table and there will be no starving children. Mr. TILLMAN. How often do they bathe? Mr. DUCLOS. Once a week. Mr. TILLMAN. There are plenty of bathing facilities and you require them to bathe and keep clean? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. TILLMAN. Do many of them have sore eyes? Mr. DUCLOS. No; I think we are free of it. We keep after those things. Mr. TILLMAN. That is a very admirable report. Mr. CARTER. It seems to me from what I understood-I got the idea from your statement-that you said at one time there were 1,400 Indians on this reservation, and at another time, 500. Mr. DUCLOS. I will say, Mr. Carter, there are two reservations under my charge; the Mojaves are living on two reservations, in two jurisdictions. They were put together in 1915 and part of them are in one part of the country and the others are here. Mr. CARTER. The reservations are here? Mr. DUCLOS. No; there are two reservations, but most of the Indians are off of the reservation. I can give you the exact data if you wish it, just where they are. Mr. CARTER. You are superintendent of both reservations? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. Is this irrigation project proposed for both reservations or only one? Mr. DUCLOS. For both. Mr. CARTER. For the 1,400 and some odd Indians? Mr. DUCLOS. 1,146. Quite a number of them have died since the allotment. That accounts for it. Mr. CARTER. Others have been born? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. Mr. CARTER. How many Indians have been allotted? Mr. DUCLOS. Approved allotments, 645. Mr. CARTER. How many have been allotted altogether? Mr. DUCLOS. 1.198 allotted and selected. Mr. CARTER. All of them have made selections? Mr. DUCLOS. I have made them for them. Mr. CARTER. That is the same thing. Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. Are they all on lands? How much is allotted? Mr. DUCLOS. It will be 11,980 acres. Mr. CARTER. Ten acres to the head? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. Are those lands all in tracts that can be brought under the ditch by your proposed irrigation? Mr. DUCLOS. Ten thousand acres of it can. There will be a piece of 1,980 acres that can not. Mr. CARTER. You say it is proposed that the Government should be reimbursed for this construction work? Mr. DUCLOS. By your legislation. Mr. CARTER. Just state what it is in the act of 1910. Mr. DUCLOS. Sale of surplus lands. Mr. CARTER. All reimbursement for construction work was to be made from the sale of surplus land and no charge whatever to be made against the products raised on the land either against the Indians or against the lessee? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. The lessee is supposed to pay for what water he gets on his land? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. What is your ultimate purpose in leasing these lands to white men? Mr. DUCLOS. To enable the Indian so that he can farm them. Mr. CARTER. As soon as the leases expire, do you expect that the Indians will go on the lands and farm them for themselves? Mr. DUCLOS. The able-bodied Indians; yes. Mr. CARTER. I mean the able-bodied Indians. Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. Have any of the Indians themselves put the land in condition to receive water? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. How many? Mr. DUCLOS. Quite a number. You passed by 30 acres of nicely leveled land this morning. Mr. CARTER. How many Indians have themselves prepared their land for water? Mr. DUCLOS. I would have to go over our record. Mr. CARTER. I would like to have that. That is important. Mr. DUCLOS. I should say 50. Mr. CARTER. Out of 1,100? Mr. DUCLOs. Yes. Mr. CARTER. Over how many years has that extended? Mr. DUCLOS. Five or six years. Mr. CARTER. When do those five-year leases expire? Mr. DUCLOS. Some expire June 30, 1922, and some expire this year, some next year. Mr. CARTER. How many expire this year? Mr. DUCLOS. Two that I can think of just now. Mr. CARTER. The only Indians you have now cultivating their allotments are the Indians who have themselves leveled the land and placed it in a tillable state? Mr. DUCLOS. A good many; the Government used to have a levelfit of 20 mules, and leveled the land for the Indians. Mr. CARTER. Altogether only 50 Indians? Mr. DUCLOS. Seventy-three. Mr. CARTER. Of those, you say 50 did the work themselves? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes; and probably the other 23 the Government assted. That is not exact. Mr. CARTER. They did part of the work even when the Governent assisted? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes; they cleared the land. Mr. CARTER. Are these 73 Indians self-sustaining and making a od living? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. They farm their land not quite so well as the white an? Mr. DUCLOS. We had one young man who has gotten a crop and old $1.200 worth of seed cotton. Mr. CARTER. How many Indians were educated at this school? Mr. DUCLOS. Between here and Fort Mojave, at least 50 of them. Mr. CARTER. All of them have practically gone to school and reeived some education? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Some of the older ones did not. Mr. CARTER. Are there any of the Indians cultivating the soil ho have no education at all? Mr. DUCLOs. Yes, sir. Mr. CARTER. Twenty-two or twenty-three out of the 70? Mr. CARTER. How long have you been educating the people on his reservation? Do you know when the school system was started? Mr. DUCLOS. No: at an early date; 1890, or during the eighties Mr. CARTER. It has been running for 30 years? Mr. DUCLOS. It was started in 1890, when the troops were with lrawn, when it was turned over to the Interior Department for educational purposes. Mr. CARTER. None of these leases have expired up to date? Mr. DUCLOS. Several of them. Mr. CARTER. And the Indians have gone on to these leases? Mr. CARTER. How about those re-leases? What has become of he revenue? Mr. DUCLOS. Credited to the individual Indian. Mr. CARTER. You pay it out to him at intervals? Mr. DUCLOS. Most of them are minors, and we hold the money to enable him, when he gets of age, to farm the land himself. Mr. CARTER. Do any of the Indians receive any revenue outside of this from their lands? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir; where we are holding it and there are releases, they draw the money. Mr. CARTER. That is, where a lease has expired and a new lease is made, they will draw the money themselves? Mr. DUCLOS. In some instances, where they leveled the land themselves, they are drawing the money themselves. Mr. CARTER. But you are not paying out that money to ablebodied Indians who have reached their majority? Mr. DUCLOS. No, sir. Mr. ELSTON. Answering a question of Mr. Rhodes, you told what became of the boys who have graduated from this school. What becomes of the girls? Mr. DUCLOS. They marry, as a rule. Mr. ELSTON. On the reservation? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes; to Indians. Mr. ELSTON. Do they go into service? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. We send our girls out during the summer to Los Angeles and vicinity. Mr. ELSTON. Domestic service, canneries, and things of that sort! Mr. DUCLOS. Domestic service, many of the older girls have worked in Los Angeles; about 13. Mr. ELSTON. Before they graduated? Mr. DUCLOS. Before they graduated and some after they have graduated. Mr. ELSTON. When you say they marry, that applies to only a portion of those who graduated? Mr. DUCLOS. They ultimately marry and establish homes for themselves, the girls. Mr. ELSTON. Most of them marry within the tribe and on the reservation here? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. Even those who go out into service after they graduate and work; for instance, do they marry or scatter into the general citizenship? Mr. DUCLOS. Some of them marry other Indians of outside tribes. and one Indian woman at Riverside married an employee there. Mr. ELSTON. Is the after graduation history of the girls about as satisfactory as that of the boys? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. You do not know of any cases of lapse back to bad conditions or to conditions as bad as those of the parents? Mr. DUCLOS. No, sir. Mr. ELSTON. They have better homes and better influences? Mr. ELSTON. You spoke of making re-leases under the five-year period at the termination of the original leases? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. Mr. ELSTON. Are they made on different terms from the original leases? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. State it. Mr. DUCLOS. We have been getting $10 an acre for re-leases that we made some time ago. Mr. ELSTON. That $10 is put to the credit of the owner of the allotment? Mr. DUCLOS. The lessor. Mr. ELSTON. None of that goes to the Government to pay the overhead of maintenance? Mr. DUCLOS. The lessee pays it. Mr. ELSTON. The lessee in addition to the $10 which goes to the Indian owner, the lessor, also pays the overhead rate of the Government maintenance and upkeep? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. What is supposed to be the rental, the real rental, in he original lease? Is that the value that the lessee puts on the land y reason of the improvements that he makes? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. Mr. ELSTON. Breaks up the land; gets it into cultivation? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. Mr. ELSTON. You regard that as putting value into the land? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. How much value do you estimate the lessee puts into che land from the time he goes on it up to the time that he moves or at the end of the five years? Mr. DUCLOS. Under existing labor conditions and cost of food, cost of reclaiming an acre, I should think, $75 an acre. Mr. ELSTON. In addition to what the lessee gets himself for his own remuneration to induce him to go onto the land and in addition to the expense he is put to in the way of overhead charges, which is given here at the rate in the original lease, he puts into the land to be turned over to the lessor, the Indian, eventually at the end of the five years a value of $75 per acre? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. The Government or the lessor gets that advantage out of the lease system, then, by getting that value in the land at the end of five years? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes, sir. Mr. ELSTON. Do you think that is a fair system to apply to the rest of this land in excess of the 10,000 acres on this reservation? Mr. DUCLOS. That system-no, sir. Mr. ELSTON. What is the value of the surplus land beyond the 14,000 acres which you expect to put under this pumping system? What is the value of the 125,000 acres? Mr. DUCLOS. We do not expect to put it all under this system. Mr. ELSTON. What is the value of each acre of land outside of this 14,000 which will be eventually put under the pumping system? What is the value right now? Mr. DUCLOS. Very little. Mr. ELSTON. Is it $1 an acre? Mr. DUCLOS. Yes; I should say $10 an acre. Mr. ELSTON. Is that its potential value, simply for those who might want to develop out of it the actual revenue value for use now as it lies? Mr. DUCLOS. No; on 50,000 acres which we are letting out we are only getting $2,000. Mr. ELSTON. I want to bring out from this witness the actual value of the land as it lies now, as it lies from now on until eternity, if it is not put under some practical developmental use; that is, if the Government takes no initiative to do anything with that land from now on, but simply leaves it lie as now. The land I am speaking of now is the land in excess of this 14,000 acres which will always fie from now to eternity, with practically no use at all. Mr. DUCLOS. Yes. The value differs. It depends on the overflow of this river. If the overflow goes to feed 50,000 acres of land, it brings in $10,000 in revenue; under no overflow the minimum was $2,000. |