The CHAIRMAN. Begin with the first item, administrative division. There may be items here that are perfectly understandable, but we will be asked questions about these things on the floor of the House. Mr. GOSNELL. That includes the director's division, chief clerk's office, and other divisions that have to do with administration of force.

The CHAIRMAN. Salaries and expenses of regional disbursing officers.

Mr. GOSNELL. In the last census of agriculture in 1925 we used special disbursing agents in different sections of the country to pay the enumerators and other employees. We found we could pay them within 48 to 72 hours from the time the vouchers were received, which caused them to give better service than they would if they had to wait several weeks to get their pay from Washington. Our expense as provided here will not be appreciably greater than if the work were done here.

The CHAIRMAN. You carry $100,000 to cover that?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It is a sort of an emergency proposition?
Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mrs. KAHN. It prevents congestion here?

Mr. GOSNELL. It prevents congestion here, and also will relieve considerable expense here. I think a similar job in Washington would cost $60,000 or $75,000, but it is much more efficient in the field. We also have in mind using these regional disbursing officers as sort of supervisors of the supervisors, instructing them and checking up on them and furnishing them information.

Mr. RANKIN. How many will there be of these regional disbursing officers?

Mr. GOSNELL. We plan for about 15.

Mr. RANKIN. One for every three States?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir. Of course, that also provides for outlying possessions.

The CHAIRMAN. Geographers division.

Mr. GOSNELL. That is the division which makes plans for taking the census, preparation of maps, supervisors' districts, and other data necessary in taking a census.

Doctor HILL. We have to have very good maps, especially in the cities.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you make those maps?

Doctor HILL. No, sir; we can not do that.

Mr. GOSNELL. We get them from county and city officials. We are doing that now.

The CHAIRMAN. How long a period will that cover?

Mr. GOSNELL. About $540,000?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. GOSNELL. A three-year period.

The CHAIRMAN. Population office, $5,500,000.

Mr. GOSNELL. That also covers a three-year period.

The CHAIRMAN. That is for the pay of the director and employees? Mr. GOSNELL. For the administrative force.

The CHAIRMAN. Enumerators'.

Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir; just the machinery in the administrative force in Washington.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a considerable sum of money, and we would like a little more detail about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Would it not be possible to have the Bureau of the Census take this table and itemize it? We are going to have to answer a number of questions about this on the floor.

The CHAIRMAN. If he would give us the information now, and then at the conclusion of it furnish an itemization of it in condensed from, I think it would be very beneficial.

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mr. GOSNELL. We are doing that now.

The CHAIRMAN. For the benefit of the committee?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir; for the benefit of the committee. It will take some time to finish it, a week or 10 days.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it would be a very valuable thing to have. We will have all sorts of inquiries on the floor as to what this money will be expended for.

Mr. GOSNELL. I am preparing an estimate showing the amount expended and the number of employees in the different grades, etc. The CHAIRMAN. Then we need not go through this now?

Mr. RANKIN. I do not think it is necessary now.

The CHAIRMAN. We have the cost in the continental United States, $13,073,000?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

Mrs. KAHN. This $5,000,000 extends over the three-year period? Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The agricultural office is the same?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Enumeration of population and agriculture, $13,408,000.

Mr. GOSNELL. That includes the outlying possessions. The CHAIRMAN. I see it balances over here on the next page. Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir. There is one other statement in regard to the total cost which was given yesterday of $34,763,000. includes $3,000,000 to cover the regular work of the bureau during this

That

three-year period. That includes vital statistics, city and State finances, and various other similar matters.

Mr. MOORMAN. What was the object of adding that $3,000,000? They all understand the department is going to continue this work. Why add that $3,000,000?

The CHAIRMAN. Put it in the bill.

Mr. GOSNELL. During the intercensal period we have three appropriations, one for collecting statistics, one for salaries, and one for tabulating machines. During the decennial census period we only have one appropriation to cover everything. I believe some consideration is being given to taking that out of the decennial appropriation act and continuing the other appropriation.

Mr. HIRSCH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, on the second page the estimated cost in the outlying possessions is $335,000.

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Completing enumerations, $268,000.

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Administrative fields, $67,000.

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And the $268,000 and $67,000 are included in the $335,000?

Mr. GOSNELL. $335,000 is the total of those two items. We have further itemization of that. The outlying possessions include $100,000 for Alaska, $50,000 for Hawaii, $17,000 for Porto Rico, and $10,000 for Guam, Samoa, and the Canal Zone.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not include the Virgin Islands?

Mr. GOSNELL. They are not incuded in this estimate. They will run probably $2,500 or $3,000.

The CHAIRMAN. I notice the estimate of population in 1930 is 123,288,325. Is that the same estimate that was furnished to the committee in the last session when we had the apportionment bill under consideration?

Dr. HILL. I do not remember. It should be.

The CHAIRMAN. Or is that a new estimate? Is that 123,000,000 a new estimate? Somebody suggested that it was the same we had two years ago. I did not know whether the Bureau wished to revise its figures or not.

Mr. RANKIN. Does that include the outlying possessions?
Doctor HILL. No; the continental United States.

Mrs. KAHN. One hundred and twenty-three million estimated population?

Mr. GOSNELL. That is rather a rough estimate for the purpose of making estimates for appropriations only.

The CHAIRMAN. But an estimate of the bureau ought to be based on something.

Doctor HILL. Yes. I think we have a later estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. This is subject to revision?

Doctor HILL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Then that is all right.

Doctor HILL. That can be revised.

Mr. LOZIER. The bureau has made another estimate since the

other data was submitted?

Doctor HILL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Here are the figures that were submitted the other time. The estimated population on January 1, 1930, here shows a very small difference. It is 123,288,325, and in the one we had before it is 123,288,000.

Mrs. KAHN. There were enough born to make that up.

The CHAIRMAN. They are pretty accurate if they get as close as that.

Mrs. KAHN. I do not see any use of taking the census, if they can guess at it as close as that.

Doctor HILL. As far as the total population is concerned that might be true, but some of the cities are quite different.

Mr. LOZIER. May I inquire something about these assistant supervisors? How many do you contemplate having?

Mr. GOSNELL. One for each supervisor.

Mr. LOZIER. Not one for each county?

Mr. GOSNELL. No, sir. There will be 375 supervisors, and 375 assistant supervisors. However, there has been a proposition made that they use county supervisors for the agricultural census. That is a matter to be taken up with the Department of Agriculture later

on.

Mr. RANKIN. What do you propose to pay the district supervisors? Mr. GOSNELL. $2,000 for the job, which will be six or eight months, We may have to go to $2,500.

Mr. LOZIER. You estimated the salaries of the assistant supervisors at $150 to $200 a month?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. LOZIER. For the same period?

Mr. GOSNELL. Approximately the same period. In some cases the supervisors have no use for an assistant when the office is first organized, and many times they dispense with their services before the enumeration is entirely complete.

Mr. LOZIER. I would like to make the suggestion that I believe this census ought to be taken by the Census Bureau, and I do not look with much favor upon the proposition of hooking up with county agents. It has been suggested that that be done. I think it is all right and proper to get all the information you can from them and secure their active cooperation, but I think the whole machinery of this census should be under the control of the Bureau of the Census and the officers securing the information should be exclusive employees and officers of the Census Bureau. It is all right to get what information you can from county agents and secure their cooperation and advice, but I hope the Census Bureau will not consider hooking them up with the census to the extent of making them a part of the machinery.

Mr. RANKIN. Dividing responsibility.

Mr. LOZIER. Yes. That is my idea about the matter.

And you estimated the salaries of clerks and stenographers to run from $75 to $125 per month?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes.

Mr. LOZIER. That would be for the census period, but the number would fluctuate?

Mr. GOSNELL. Yes. In some cases they would be employed for four or five days, and in other cases for six or eight months. The difference in the amount of salary stated is to provide for different conditions in different sections of the country. In some places you can

get very efficient clerks for $75 a month, and in other places you will have difficulty in getting them for $125.

The CHAIRMAN. If there are no objections, the committee will adjourn until next Wednesday at 10.30.

(Whereupon, at 11.30 a. m., the committee adjourned until Wednesday, February 8, 1928, at 10.30 a. m.)

The committee this day met, Hon. E. Hart Fenn (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order.

I have the statement prepared by the Census Bureau with regard to the Philippine censuses. They were requested to furnish that information, and without objection I will have it inserted in the record at this place.

PHILIPPINE CENSUSES

The first census of the Philippine Islands was taken by the War Department, under the supervision of General Sanger as the Director of the Census, in 1903. The data secured were sent to the Bureau of the Census at Washington, which made the tabulations, and the results were printed in four volumes by the United States Government Printing Office.

The second census of the Philippine Islands was taken by the Philippine Government under the direction of the Philippine Legislature in the year 1918. The taking of this census was authorized by section 2, Act 2352, approved February 28, 1914, as amended by section 1, of Act 2766, which reads as follows:

A census of the Philippine Islands shall be taken under the general supervision of the Governor General and the immediate direction of an officer, to be known as the director of the census, who shall be appointed by the Governor General, by and with the advice and consent of the senate. The enumeration shall begin on a day to be fixed by the Governor General, which shall be called census day, and shall proceed on consecutive days from daylight to darkness, including Sundays and holidays, until completed; and all data prescribed to be gathered by this act or by regulations issued under it shall be gathered as of 12 o'clock of the night preceding that day: Provided, That if the Governor General shall deem it necessary to require that the numeration of any part or parts of the Philippine Islands should begin before census day, he is hereby authorized to fix the time when such enumeration shall begin.'

Proclamation No. 21, issued by the Governor General, dated May 24, 1918, fixed December 31, 1918, as the census day. For the purpose of this census the Philippine Islands were divided into five districts. The Governor General appointed a director and five assistant directors, who organized and later set up a central office at Manila, in which the schedule forms and instructions for the field force of inspectors, special agents, enumerators, etc., were prepared. Personal instructions were also given to all of the field officials just preceding the beginning of the enumeration.

Appropriation was made by the Philippine Legislature to pay for this work. The first appropriation, carrying the sum of 1,000,000 pesos, for the taking of the census was made on March 2, 1918. A second appropriation was made at a later date to complete the census.

There were nine inquiry forms or schedules used in this census, as follows: Population, agriculture, social conditions, schools, mortality, manufactures, household industries, non-Christian population, and miscellaneous. "Generally, the enumeration work was done within the 30-day period prescribed in the Governor General's proclamation." 1

"To carry out all the census work, 17,275 persons were employed, 192 of which were females, 12 Americans, 1 Japanese, and 4 Chinese. These figures do not include the employees of the central office, which numbered altogether

1 Introduction, Vol. I, p. 26.