How long it will take us to perform that work, I cannot tell. I cordially approve of the suggestion of the gentleman from Lenawee, (MR. BILLS,) that it does not necessarily follow that we are to make an entirely new Constitution. On the contrary, I think it is a general desire on the part of the people, that we should only revise some portions of our present Constitution. Parts of that Constitution have already been passed upon and construed by the courts, and we know just what they mean. If we were to do away with those parts entirely, and frame new parts to take their places, it might take another series of years before the Constitution in those respects would be as well settled as it is now. That portion of the Constitution which has been settled by the decisions of the courts, and which has been found to meet the wants of the public, is very valuable. We may make a new Constitution, but we cannot gain 16 or 18 years of time in that respect. Other parts of the Constitution have not yet been acted on by the courts, simply because they were so plain and clear that they needed no judicial explanation. Upon those parts no improvement can be made. Some parts of the Constitution may need amending, because the times have changed, the condition of things in our own State has changed, everything around us has changed. It seems to me that the best course for us to pursue, is to direct our efforts to a revision of those parts of the Constitution which need revision, and do it as speedily as possible, and then go home. Mr. BRADLEY. I move that the resolution be laid upon the table. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CONGER. I have been advised, I am not sure how correctly, that the President of this Convention will be AFTERNOON SESSION. The Convention re-assembled at answered to their names. STATIONERY, ETC., FOR OFFICIAL REPORTERS. Resolved, That the official reporters of JOURNALS OF FIRST AND SECOND DAYS' PROCEEDINGS. Education--Messrs. Willard, Lothrop, Miller, Chapin, Bradley, Thompson, Hull, W. F. Goodwin, Richmond. Finance and Taxation Messrs. Leach, Bills, McConnel, McClelland, Richmond, Alexander, Musgrave, Henderson, Woodhouse. Corporations other than MunicipalMersrs. Pringle, Barber, Hazen, Duncan, Sawyer, Aldrich, Alexander, W. E. Warner, Rafter. Impeachment Messrs. Blackman, Harris, Howard, Murray, W. E. Goodwin, Sawyer, Purcell. Exemptions-Messrs. Coolidge, Daniells, Lovell, Haire, Rafter. Militia-Messrs. Stoughton, Huston, Mr. UTLEY. I offer the following McConnell, Kenney, Andrus, Conger, resolution: the use of this Convention, 200 extra copies In explanation of this resolution, I STANDING COMMITTEES. The PRESIDENT announced the following as the standing committees Boundaries, Seat of Government, and Legislative Department-Messrs. Con- Executive Department-Messrs. Bir- Judicial Department--Messrs. Withey, prepared in the course of the day to Ferris, T. G. Smith, Burtenshaw, Far- should have an afternoon session. nison. The PRESIDENT. The list of com-ner, Stoughton, Ingalls, Germain, State Officers-Messrs. P. Dean Warmittees is now being copied; but it is Chapman. not quite ready in the form in which the Chair would desire to present it to the Convention. Mr. CONGER. I move that the Convention take a recess till three o'clock this afternoon. The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at twenty-five minutes past twelve o'clock P. M.) the Convention took a recess until three o'clock P. M. Salaries-Messrs. Mussey, Wood- Counties-Messrs. Luce, Divine, Townships-Messrs. T. G. Smith, Cities and Villages-Messrs. Miles, Winans. Miscellaneous Provisions · Messrs. Williams, Farmer, Barber, Withey, McKernan. Amendments and Revisions-Messrs. Giddings, Chapin, Huston, Elliott, Jennison. Schedule-Messrs. Turner, Harris, Wright, Burtenshaw, Utley, Case, Bradley, Norris, Desnoyers. Arrangement and Phraseology-Messrs. Ninde, Birney, Coolidge, Blackman, Sutherland, Willard, Daniells. Bill of Rights-Messrs. Pratt, Duncombe, Kenney, Van Riper, Andrews, Burtch, Purcell. Hazen, Winsor, Utley, Stockwell, White, Corbin. Intoxicating Liquors-Messrs. Bills, Howard, Parsons, Ferris, Ninde, Root, D. Goodwin, Gulick, F. C. Watkins. Supplies Messrs. Aldrich, Case, Root, Haire, Henkel. Printing-Messrs. Hull, Ingalls, Morton, Estee, Thompson. RULES OF THE CONVENTION. Mr. BIRNEY. Imove that the Convention now resolve itself into committee of the whole, on the general order. The motion was agreed to. The Convention accordingly resolved itself into committee of the whole, (Mr. the consideration of the general order, BIRNEY in the Chair,) and proceeded to being the report of the committee on rules. lished in the proceedings of Friday, [See report of committee as pub the 17th instant.] proposed rules for amendment. lows: "No member shall speak more than twice on the same question, nor more than once until every member who chooses to speak, shall have spoken;" Mr. MUSSEY said: I move to amend rule ten, by adding these words: "except chairmen of committees upon not already on the table, but before matters reported by them." I will proper word. The motion is "to lay ual" upon our tables, where the phrase state briefly my reasons for offering on the table;" the subject matter is this amendment. I think it has been usual in legislative bodies, and will be found necessary here, to permit chairmen of committees to defend and advocate their reports by speaking upon them more than twice. I think every one who has had any experience in legislative proceedings will see the necessity of the amendment I have proposed. The amendment was agreed to. Rule 13 was read as follows: “When a question shall be under debate, no motion shall be received but the following, to wit: 1. To adjourn; 2. To lay on the table; 3. For the previous question; 4, To postpone to a day certain; 5. To commit; 6. To amend; and 7. To postpone indefinitely; which several motions shall have precedence in the order in which they stand arranged." Mr. HOLT. I move to amend the clause "to lay on the table," by substituting the word "lie" for the word "lay." It should read, "to lie on the table." employed is, "to lie on the table." Mr. NINDE. I apprehend the gentleman from Muskegon (Mr. HOLT) mistakes the natare of the motion here contemplated. It is that a certain matter be laid upon the table; it is not already upon the table, but before the House. Some member wishing to dispose of it for the time being moves that it be laid upon the table, "to lay it upon the table;" when it is laid there, then it lies upon the table, and Mr. CONGER. The gentleman from not till then. It is a very natural mistake for persons to fall into, if they Hillsdale (Mr. PRATT) has referred us have not given the subject special at- to the rule of the House of Representention; and if they do not give it at- tatives of this State where the phrase tention until late in life, they some- is "to lie on the table." If he will times fail to make these nice distinc- turn to the 34th rule of the Senate, in tions. (Laughter.) I have had no the same "Manual," he will find the occasion for twenty-five years to consult phrase "to lay on the table." the rules of the House of Representatives at Washington, or of the Legis- which is the proper word, is to conMr. HARRIS. The way to decide lature of the State of New York, or of sider the position of the matter to any other body upon this subject. which the motion relates. Is the matMy opinion upon this subject was ter upon the table? If so then the moformed from Murray, and I see no oc- tion to let it "lie on the table is casion to change it. When I say that Mr. HOLT. I have heard this ques- the water is so high in the river that it the motion to "lay it on the table," is proper. If it is not on the table, then tion discussed very often. It came up extends beyond its banks, I do not say last winter, I recollect, when the rules that "it has overflown its banks." Proper. It appears to me the rule is of the House of Representatives were Some gentleman fall into the same right as it now reads. adopted. It was thoroughly discussed mistake in regard to "fly" and "flow," at that time, and all the authorities that they do in regard to "lay" and were examined, not only so far as the lie." I lie down; I laid down last State Legislatures were concerned, but night. If a man takes hold of me and also in reference to the rules of the puts me on the ground, he lays me Congress of the United States. And there; if I remain there, I lie there. it was found in almost, if not quite, every instance, the word "lie used. Mr. NINDE. Our proceedings are to be in the English language, and the expression "to lay on the table” is the proper one. "To lay" is an active verb, and indicates some act to be performed. was 2 amendment of MR. HOLT, and it was The question was then taken on the not agreed to. Rule 21 was read as follows: the general orders of the day, they shall go "When the Convention shall have reached into committee of the whole upon such general orders, or a particular order designated by a vote of the Convention," etc. Mr. LOVELL. I ask the Secretary to read two paragraphs I have marked in the book entitled "Law and Prac- Mr. HAZEN. I move to amend this Rule, by striking out the word "they," and inserting the word "it," so that it will read, "it shall go into committee of the whole,” etc. The amendment was not agreed to. Rule 22 was read as follows: The reason this error of using the tice of Legislative Assemblies," by L. word "lay" occurs, as I understand S. Cushing. it, is from a misunderstanding of the The Secretary read as follows: term. There is no act to be performed. I think if gentlemen will examine any parliamentary authority, Jefferson's Manual, Cushing's Manual, or any other standard work upon the subject, they will find that the word used is "lie," and not "lay." tions in common use, are the following, * * * "Propositions committed to the committee of the whole, shall first be read through by the Secretary, and then read and debated by clauses. All amendments shall be endorsed "1449. The motion to lie on the table is a on a separate piece of paper, and so reported subsidiary motion, which supersedes and dis-to the Convention, by the Chairman standing poses of the motion to which it is applied for in his place." the time being," etc. the same language, and the proper Mr. WILLIAMS. The committee on rules had before them the question as to the proper word to be used. The result of our investigation differed Mr. LOVELL. All I desire to say somewhat from the statement which in the matter is that Mr. Jefferson, if has been made by the gentleman from my recollection serves me right, uses Muskegon, (Mr. HOLT.) We found a difference in the rules of different bodies, but if I recollect aright, we found that the word generally used, the one used by the Congress of the United States, and also by the Legislature of the State of New York, was the word which we have adopted here. It certainly occurs to me to be a very Mr. PRINGLE. I move to amend this rule by striking out" endorsed," and inserting in its place the word "written." My reason for moving this amendment is that I suppose we are using the English language, and desire to use the proper English word. · Mr. PRATT. Without desiring to The word "endorse" is a good English express any opinion of my own upon word, but it refers to something on the this very nice question, I will only call back, that being the etymologial meanthe attention of members to the 26th ing of the word. It seems to me that rule of the House of Representatives" endorse" is not the proper word to of Michigan, as set forth in the "Man- use in this place, but that the word "written" would express what we the word "entered" is the proper suggestion for the consideration of the mean. Mr. WILLARD. I suppose the meaning of the rule is, that the amendment is to be endorsed by the member moving it, who is to endorse it by writing his name on the back of it before sending it up to the chair. Mr. MUSSEY. I do not understand this rule exactly as the gentleman from Calhoun (Mr. WILLARD) seems to understand it. I suppose the object of the rule is to require the chairman of the committee of the whole to keep the amendments on separate pieces of paper; in other words, not to interline them in the body of the paper under consideration. They are to be reported upon separate pieces of paper to the Convention for their action, and if concurred in, then they are to be written in by the officer provided for that purpose, to wit: the engrossing clerk. That is the object of the rule, as I understand it; and it strikes me that the amendment proposed is eminently proper. Mr. WILLIAMS. There would appear to be an error by the printer, or in the draft of these rules for the printer. The rule was intended to be the same as the rule of the old Convention, which had the word "6 entered," instead of the word "endorsed." word to be used. Rule 23 was read as follows: "The rules of the Convention shall be observed in committee of the whole, so far as they may be applicable, except that the yeas and nays shall not be called, nor the previous question enforced." chairman of the committee on rules. Mr. WILLIAMS. That particular question was not before the committee. Still, I think the amendment suggested by the gentleman from Wayne (Mr. MCCLELLAND) would be a very proper one, and I apprehend there would be no objection to it. Mr. McCLELLAND. Then I will move the amendment I have indicated. My impression is that it will be of service hereafter. The amendment was agreed to. "A motion that the committee rise shall always be in order, and shall be decided without debate." Mr. WILLIAMS. I move to amend Rule 25, by adding thereto the following: "And if decided in the affirmative, the Chairman shall report the action of the comsections had under consideration, as the committee either upon the article or section or mittee of the whole shall direct." The amendment was agreed to. in the Convention, shall be put in the order in privileged questions; and in filling up blanks, Mr. McCLELLAND. I would resspectfully suggest to the Chairman of of adopting some provision which will the Committee on Rules the propriety tion to discharge the committee of enable a majority vote of the Conventhe whole from the further consideration of any subject. As the rule now stands, the committee of the whole could not be discharged except by a two-third vote suspending the rules. Mr. PRINGLE. I have no objecMr. WILLIAMS. The Committee. tion to having the word "entered" on Rules took into consideration the substituted for the word "endorsed;" propriety of having a rule by which and therefore I withdraw my amend the committee of the whole could be discharged from the consideration of any particular subject. I have an amendment to propose to rule 25, which will probably secure the object desired by the gentleman. ment. Mr. BILLS. I think the I think the word "written" is better than the word “entered.” The rule would then read, all amendments shall be written on a separate piece of paper," etc. I would prefer the word "written" to the word "entered." Mr. McCLELLAND: I am desirous of doing everything in my power to terminate the proceedings of this Mr. WILLIAMS. There would Convention, as speedily as possible. seem to be an objection to using the Therefore I would prefer to have an word "written." I do not suppose amendment added to rule 23, in the that it is intended that all amend- following words: ments shall be written upon separate pieces of paper; but that they shall be entered upon separate pieces from that under consideration. It is intended that they shall be embodied in some form upon pieces of paper separate from that upon which the subject matter under consideration is written or printed. "The Convention may at any time, by a vote of the majority of the members present, provide for the discharge of the committee of the whole, from the further consideration of any subject referred to it, after acting without debate, on all amendments pending and that may be offered.” Mr. HOLT. I move to amend Rule 26, by striking out all after the words privileged questions," and inserting in lieu thereof the following: "When a blank is to be filled and different sums or times shall be proposed, the question shall be first taken on the largest sum or the longest time." It is merely a change of phraseology. But the rule, as it now reads, is not good grammar, to say the least of it. The amendment was agreed to. Rule 28 was read as follows:. "Any member having voted with the majority, may be at liberty to move for a reconsideration; and a motion for reconsideration shall be decided by a majority of votes.” Mr. LEACH. It strikes me that rule would sound better, if the words "be at liberty to," were stricken out; so that it will read "any member having voted with the majority may move for a reconsideration,” etc. I move to strike out those words. The motion was agreed to. Rule 31 was read, as follows: names of the members shall be called by the Upon the call of the Convention,, the Secretary, and the absentees noted; but no excuse shall be made until the Convention shall be fully called over; then the absentees shall be called over the second time, and if still absent, excuses are to be heard, and if no excuse, or insufficient excuse be made, the absentees may, by order of those present, if there be fifteen members present, be taken into custody wherever found by the Sergeantat-Arms. Unless something of that sort is done, if I understand parliamentary law, you cannot take anything away Mr. BLACKMAN. It seems to from the committee of the whole exme that there is a misapprehension on cept by a vote of two-thirds of the the part of some members in relation members present. Now I think the | to the intention of this rule. I sup- Convention should possess the power posed, until the explanation of the gen- of discharging the committee of the tleman from Allegan, (Mr. WILLIAMS,) whole, whenever it sees fit to do so, that it had reference to the offering of bringing the matter before the amendments. It seems that it has vention, where debate can be stopped reference to the entering of them by by means of the previous question; Mr. WILLARD. I move to amend the chairman of the committee of the which cannot be done in committee of the rule by striking out "the," where whole when made. I think, therefore, the whole, I merely throw out this it first occurs, and inserting "a," so VOL. 1.-No. 5 that it will read "Upon a call of the "be taken into custody wherever found Convention," etc. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. WRIGHT. I move to insert the word "an," before the word "insufficient," so that it will read " or an insufficient excuse be made," etc. by the Sergeant-at-Arms." The amendment was not agreed to. any more calls of the yeas and nays The motion was agreed to. Mr. BURTCH. I move that this rule be laid upon the table for one day. Mr. LEACH, I think the Rule The CHAIRMAN (Mr. BIRNEY.) The would read better if it were amended committee of the whole has no table. by striking out the words, "and in Mr. LONGYEAR. I move to amend which," and inserting the word "when," the second clause of this rule by strik- in their place," so that it will read, ing out the word "made," and insert-"when they are not inconsistent with ing the word "heard," so that it will the standing rules and orders of this read-"but no excuse shall be heard Convention." I move that amendment. until the Convention shall be fully The amendment was agreed to. called over;" also to amend the next Rule 33 was read as follows: clause by striking out the words "are to," and inserting the word "may," so that it will read "and if still absent, excuses may be heard." 1 Mr. BURTCH. I am opposed to this rule in its present form. This Convention is here by virtue of the laws of the land. No member eleeted to this body is under any obligation to appear here. If he comes here he is to receive so much a day while in actual attendance. I think if I feel disposed to absent myself entirely from this Convention, it is my unquestionable privilege to do so, in the meantime not drawing any pay for the time I may be absent. That is all there is about it. It seems to me that the proposition to arrest a member of the Convention if he should happen to be a little late from any accident that might occur, would be rather oppressive. I am opposed to this rule in its present form. Mr. P. D. WARNER. I would suggest to the gentleman from Eaton, (Mr. BURTCH,) in order to quiet his sensibilities, that if after the adoption of this rule he should be very anxious to leave the Convention and return to his home, perhaps he could obtain a vote of the Convention for leave to do so. (Laughter.) Mr. FARMER, I move to amend by striking out the word "ten," and inserting the word “five.” Mr. HENDERSON. I call for a division of the question, and ask that the vote be first taken on striking out the word "ten." MR. WILLIAMS. The committee on rules have reported the rule of the old Convention. I would like to hear from some members of the Convention of 1850 as to the working of that rule in that Convention. MR. LEACH. I do not now recol- For reasons Mr. MORTON. I doubt the policy of adopting the amendment, and allowing a less number than ten to order the calling of the roll. Every time the roll is called it will cost the State of Michigan a dollar or two. A matter Mr. HENDERSON. sufficiently important to justify the substantially such as have been given calling of the roll, can certainly obtain by other members, I called for a divisthe support of ten members for that ion of the question, and asked that a purpose. separate vote be taken upon the moMr. MUSSEY. I think the gentle-tion to strike out. That was not in man from Monroe, (Mr. MORTON,) is order under the rules of the House of correct. I had myself intended to Representatives, by which the action submit an amendment to strike out of this Convention is now governed. "ten," and insert "fifteen." I will, however, be content to let the Rule stand as it now reads; but I cannot favor the amendment of the gentleman from Berrien, (Mr. FARMER.) If there is under consideration any matter reMr. THOMPSON. I move to further quiring the placing upon record the amend this Rule, by striking out the names of those voting upon it, then word "excuse," after the word "in- there can always be found ten members sufficient," and inserting in lieu the to order the call of the yeas and nays; word " one," so that it will read, "or and if any member desires to have his an insufficient one be made," etc. That will avoid a repetition of the word Mr. BURTCH. I have no doubt but what this House would be very glad to extend that courtesy to me. (Renewed laughter.) The amendment of Mr. LONGYEAR was then agreed to. "excuse. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. BURTCH. I move to amend this Rule by striking out after the words "members present," the words My object, however, was to move to Mr. McCLELLAND. I believe the 1 printed.' no such tendency in 1850, and I do not adjourn absolutely. If the members amend this rule by adding the followthink it will have any such tendency of this Convention shall become so ing: now. A less number than ten would neglectful of their duties as not to be "And every article reported upon by a comperhaps be too small, as it would put present, but leave the control of mat-mittee shall be referred to the committee of the majority in the power of a small ters in the hands of a minority, then the whole, placed on the general order and minority. There may be a great many let the minority have the power to questions which will arise here, which adjourn, and let the majority take the a large majority of this Convention consequences. may consider of no moment, and it might not be well to leave it in the power of six or eight to order the yeas and nays. I think, however, the number now in the rule is correct. Mr. LUCE. I fully agree with the remarks of the gentleman from Wayne (Mr. MCCLELLAND.) I think the number ten, as reported by the committee on rules, is as near right as we can pos 3 sible make it. The amendment was not agreed to. Mr. THOMPSON. I have two or three objections to this rule as it now stands. I do not think the phrase ayes and noės" is correct. In rule five the expression used is "yeas and nays." The two rules should be made to conform, and I think this rule should employ the same phrase as rule five. For that purpose, and in order to change the phraseology somewhat, I offer the following as a substitute for rule 33: "The yeas and nays shall be taken upon any question, whenever demanded by ten members." Mr. FARMER. We have already provided for that, by authorizing the minority to send the Sergeant-at-Arms after the absentees. My object in moving this amendment, is to do away with the necessity, upon a report of a committee being made, of submitting a motion to refer it to the committee of the whole and print it. By this amendment the necessity of such a motion is done away The amendment was agreed to. Mr. WILLIAMS. If they do not with. The question was then taken upon ted. Rule 35 was read as follows: "Every article shall receive three several readings, previous to its being passed; and the second and third readings shall be on different days, and the third reading shall be on a day subsequent to that in which it has passed a committee of the whole, unless the Convention, by a vote of two-thirds of the members present, shall otherwise direct; and no article shall be declared adopted without the votes of a majority of all the members elect." Mr. MUSSEY. I would like to make an inquiry in regard to this rule, and also the next rule. This rule requires that previous to being passed each article shall receive three separate readings. Rule 36 requires that "no article shall The substitute was agreed to. be committed or amended until it has Rule 34 was read as follows: been twice read." Are we to under"A majority of the members elect shall stand that the article is to be read constitute a quorum for the transaction of bus-through each time? iness, but a less number may adjourn." Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. CONGER. I move to further amend this rule by inserting after the words "twice read," the words "in whole or by its title, as the Convention shall direct." It may not be necessary for the whole article to be read to the Convention; but the same practice might be followed as in legislative bodies, when bills are read by their title. The amendment was agreed to.- 'Every article when read a third time and passed, shall be referred for arrangement only, to the committee on arrangement and phraseology." Mr. VAN RIPER. I move the fol lowing as a substitute for rule 37: Questions are continually arising in our courts as to the meaning of certain portions of our Constitution, in That question consequence partly of the looseness of That question the phraseology. I understand that we have a committee on arrangement Mr. LONGYEAR. I would suggest was before the committee, but no defito the chairman of the committee on rules the propriety of having a provis-/nite action was taken upon it. But it and phraseology. I find nothing in It is not to be referred for revision of phraseology. Now it seems to me Mr. MCCLELLAND. Would it not that the revision of the phraseology is be well to let this rule remain as it is, a very important matter. Also, under and then if the Convention does not this rule the reference for arrangement Mr. BURTCH. It seems to me that wish to listen to the reading of the en- can only be made after the article is by the rule as it now stands a less tire article, it could be dispensed with passed. By my amendment the refernumber than a majority of this body by unanimous consent, or by a two-ence is to be made after the third readcould adjourn this Convention indefi- third vote suspending the rule? In ing, but before the passage, in order nitely. that way the objection of the gentle- that it may still be open for action by Mr. FARMER. I move to amend man from Macomb, (Mr. MUSSEY,) the Convention after it shall have been There will be reported on by the committee on this Rule by adding the words, "from might be obviated. some title to the several articles, and arrangement and phraseology. day to day." Mr. WILLIAMS. I hope that amend-by unanimous consent they could be ment will not prevail. It may be nec- read the first and second time by their titles only. essary that a less number than a majority of this Convention shall adjourn, not only indefinitely, but without day. I do not know why we should determine now that it shall be necessary to have a majority of this Convention to |