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South Bend, Indiana. Each proposition is to make the report for eighty cents per 1,000 ems, printer's measure. The Messrs. Drapier also submit an alternative proposition to furnish the requisite force for ten dollars per day for each reporter. They also propose not to include in their charges, such speeches not to include in their charges, such speeches as members may prepare wholly themselves, if they are notified, so as not to be required to take notes. The committee do not regard the alternative proposition of these gentlemen a safe one to be acted upon, nor do they deem the exception proposed as likely to be any considerable saving of expense to the State. The expense of the employment of either of these rival applicants would be about $1,598 40 for their services, if the debates should fill 800 pages of a volume like that published in 1850, or twice that amount for

twice the number of pages.

The compensation demanded is large in comparison with the sums usually paid to the officers of legislative and other public bodies, and the Convention can only, in the opinion of the committee, be justified in paying it, on the ground that the proper performance of

the work requires a high degree of professional

skill.

made, I desire simply to say, that from able persons to report the debates of
all the examination which I have been this Convention. The committee would
able to make, I am satisfied that either have been very glad not to have been
of these men are capable of dis- required to make this recommenda-
charging the duties of this position. I tion, but simply to have reported the
would further say, in relation to this facts to the Convention as they ap-
matter, that I am personally acquainted peared to the committee, and then let
with the younger Mr. Drapier, having the Convention determine for them-
known him in the army, as an excel- selves.
lent, first-class and accurate reporter.
It is for that reason that I make this
motion.

The committee have had several meetings, and have spent the most of their time, since their appointment, in And there is another reason which, investigating this matter, and in deterperhaps, has some influence with me. mining as far as they could what, in The Messrs. Drapier are western men; their judgment, it would be best for they are citizens of a neighboring the Convention to do, and they have State, and to a certain extent identi- arrived at the conclusion expressed in fied with the interests of this State. their report. From the testimonials which they It seems to me that it is altogether proper that in the selection of per- have, and from the oral statements sons for this position we should take which they have heard, they are satisMessrs. Lord and Brown are experienced our own home men, as far as we can, fied that the gentlemen whose names reporters, who have for several years been in preference to those who live in a appear in the Congressional directory employed in the House of Representatives at Washington, as reporters for the Congress-more distant locality. Entertaining as two of the five reporters for the ional Globe. Mr. Lord had been previously no doubt of the ability of Mr. Lord Congressional Globe in the House of employed in the Senate, the Kansas Investi- and Mr. Brown to perform this work, Representatives, Messrs. Lord and gating Committee of 1856, the Iowa Constitu- still its seems to me that we should Brown, are, from their great experitional Convention of 1857, the Maryland Constitutional Convention of 1864, and in many ence and their high professional skill, other places demanding the exercise of the first-class reporters in every sense of highest skill in his profession. Mr. Brown the term. The committee have also was, before his employment at Washington, examined somewhat, specimens of their for some years an official reporter in the Pennsylvania Legislature. Mr. Lord is vouched work. They have turned over the for in the most satisfactory manner by the pages of the Congressional Globe, and entire delegation from Michigan in the 38th and 39th Congress, and by other well known have observed the character of the recitizens who became acquainted with him ports there made. They have also exwhile in the performance of his duties at amined the report of the debates and Washington. Equally satisfactory recommendations of Mr. Brown are given by such proceedings of the Maryland ConstituThe tional Convention of 1864, of which of the same gentlemen as the committee have

been able to meet.

The Messrs. Drapier have been employed in several western conventions and other places, and claim to be experienced and first class reporters, but the committee have not had opportunities of examining their work, or of

perusing testimonials produced by them.

The committee, in view of all the circumstances, recommend the employment of Messrs. Lord and Brown, by the adoption of

the following resolution:

Resolved, That William Blair Lord, of New York, and David Wolfe Brown, of Philadelphia, be appointed and employed as official reporters of this Convention, to make verbatim reports of all its debates and proceedings, they to employ all needful assistance, and to supply the printer with copy as fast as he may be able to use it, they also to correct proofs, and in all things relating to their report of the debates and proceedings of the Convention, to be governed by such rules and orders as the Convention may make, and to receive as full compensation for their services, the sum of eighty cents per thousand ems, for the printed matter, estimated as though set in solid type, contained in the report.

EUGENE PRINGLE, Chairman.

The report was received. The question was upon the adoption of the resolution reported by the com

mittee:

prefer gentlemen who live near us,
and who are almost residents of this
State.

In addition, I might say that the elder Mr. Drapier was for a long time a resident of Michigan; that he was the publisher of a newspaper in this State at the time Michigan was admitted into the Union, and that he is identified with the interests of this State to a very great extent. younger Mr. Drapier was for a long body Mr. Lord was the chief official time with the army. He was the re- reporter. They have heard the stateporter for a military commission at ments of individuals who have been in Nashville, Tennessee, where I had an Washington and had opportunities of opportunity, from personal observa- observing how these gentlemen pertion, to learn that he was a prompt, formed their duties as reporters. Your accurate and efficient reporter, and I committee have acted upon the idea have no doubt the Messrs. Drapier that the first, the best, the highest test would discharge the duties of this posi- that the country afforded of the qualition as well as any other men whom fications of reporters was to be found we could employ. in the House of Representatives at

I will only add that I regret the Washington. It is reported that there, committee to which this matter was many are sometimes speaking at once, referred, did not as fully examine the and it requires a practiced ear and credentials of the Messrs. Drapier, as great skill to make such reports as we they did those of the gentlemen from find spread upon the pages of the New York and Philadelphia. They Congressional Globe. That these genreported the Journal and Debates of tlemen have been employed there for a the Kansas Constitutional Convention, series of years; that they are vouched and in part those of Illinois and In- for by all the members of Congress diana. In those States they are recog- from this State, and by a gentleman, nized as first class reporters. I think formerly clerk in our House, and a fair examination of the recommen- now one of the clerks of the House of

dations and credentials of the Messrs. Representatives at Washington Drapier would show that they are gentleman well known to many memequally as good reporters in all bers of this Convention, and for whom respects as any from the Eastern some of them cast their votes for SecreStates. For these reasons I hope the tary of this body — all this estabamendment will prevail. lished the fact to the satisfaction of Mr. PRINGLE. The resolution ap- your committee that these gentlemen pointing this committee required of stand among the first in their profesIn support of the motion I have them to recommend the names of suit- sion in the entire country.

Mr. STOUGHTON. I move to amend the resolution, by striking out the names of Messrs. Lord and Brown, and inserting in lieu the names of Messrs. A. and W. H. Drapier.

ability as is presented by these other
men, when they show that for a series
of years they have been reporters for
the Congressional Globe.

We make no attack upon the gentle-military commission does not require are concerned, is a sufficient recommen who are named in the amend- the same amount of skill, nor does it mendation of itself. ment, proposed by the gentleman from furnish such strong testimonials of As to the other gentlemen named St. Joseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON.) We cerhere, as has been said by the Chairtainly have nothing to say against man of the committee, (Mr. PRINGLE,) them. We have not had the like opI do not wish to say anything derogaportunity of examining their work, and tory of them. The difference between of assuring ourselves that they are I have no feeling in regard to this them and the gentlemen named in the really first-class reporters. With the matter; I have no particular prepos- resolution, as they presented themsingle exception of the testimony given session against the one of these gen- selves before the committee, and as by the gentleman from St. Joseph, tlemen or for the other. I have only they stand before this Convention, I (Mr. STOUGHTON,) we have had no posi- the wish, and I suppose I have that regard to be simply this; we know the tive assurance that such is their char- wish in common with all who desire qualifications of Mr. Lord and Mr. acter as reporters. Without speaking that the reports of our debates shall Brown, but we do not know the qualiat length of what occurred in the com- be accurate, that if we employ report-fications of the other gentlemen. By mittee-room, I may say that the mem-ers at all, we should employ the best employing Messrs. Lord and Brown, bers of our committee got the idea talent which we may be able to pro- we have the certainty of securing the from hearing what was said by those cure. necessary and requisite skill and ability gentlemen when they came before the Mr. F. C. WATKINS. I am in fa- for the proper performance of the committee, that what was really ex-vor of employing home talent and work; by employing the other gentlepected on the part of the western re- Western men. I hope the amendment men, we may secure the same skill, but porters was rather to make sketch in- will prevail. [Applause.] we have not the same certainty of so stead of verbatim reports; such Mr. LONGYEAR. I will not detain doing. sketches, perhaps a little more at the Convention with any lengthy relength, as the newspapers have been marks. But I wish to bear my testiin the habit of giving of the proceed-mony, from personal knowledge, as to ings of our Legislature, rather than the qualifications of the gentlemen such verbatim reports as are usually named in the resolution now under made now of the proceedings and de- consideration. bates of Conventions like this, or as are made of the debates in both houses of Congress.

The expense of those debates is to be large, very large, in proportion to the balance of the expenses of this Convention. It is of the utmost importance, therefore, that we should have the certainty of having the work I will premise by the suggestion, well done; because a work of this kind, that, as all no doubt are well aware, poorly done, is worse than if not done the ability to photograph language as at all. I apprehend we should be very Now, we do not wish to risk any- it is expressed, to put it correctly upon careful to run no risk. That was the thing in reference to the character of paper as it is spoken in rapid debate, main idea that influenced me in the the reports of the debates that are to is an ability requiring a great deal of committee, in giving the preference to take place here; and I believe the com- experience, and a high degree of skill; the gentlemen named in the resolumittee feel satisfied that we will risk a degree of skill possessed by but com- tion. I do not think we run any risk nothing in the employment of the gen-paratively few at the present time. of not having a correct report, if we tlemen who are named in the resolu- There are very few what may be called employ them. If we employ the other tion now before the Convention. I do first class reporters in the country. gentlemen, we will run a risk, because not say that we might not have good There are many who are able to make we are not so fully informed as to their reports if we employed the other gen- what might be considered very fair re- qualifications. I hope, therefore, the tlemen; I cannot say that, for I have ports of speeches or oral statements amendment will not be adopted. too great respect for the opinion of in testimony. But the ability to re- Mr. ALDRICH. As one of the the gentleman from St. Joseph, (Mr. port fully, correctly and continuously members of the committee which made STOUGHTON.) Still, I cannot help in a legislative or deliberative body is this report, it is perhaps proper that thinking that there is a great differ- possessed by but very few persons. I should say a few words in explanaence in the skill which would be requi- The corps of reporters in Congress, tion of the course I shall pursue. site in reporting accurately the debates especially in the House of Represent- There may have been evidence suffiof such a body as this, and of such a atives, is unequaled by any other cient to induce the other members of body as the House of Representatives corps of reporters in the world. It is the committee to come to the concluin Washington, and the skill which so conceded, and it is necessarily the sion that cur western men were not would be required in reporting evi- case that they must possess that skill qualified for the position they seek. dence given before a military commis- or they would fail there, entirely. No But such evidence was not presented sion. There are doubtless a number one who has not been in the hall of the to me, and I so stated to the commitof gentlemen upon this floor, accus- House of Representatives during its tee. To my mind, there was evidence tomed to practice in our courts, who sessions, especially during an exciting that our western men were as capable could take pretty accurate reports of debate, can have any other than a faint of performing the duties required, as what was said by witnesses upon the conception of the ability and skill was the gentleman from New York. trial of their causes, and who, besides necessary to report its debates and But there appears to be a competiexamining the witnesses, keep for proceedings correctly. tion between these gentlemen. The themselves pretty accurate reports-a Mr. Lord and Mr. Brown, who are first proposition submitted to us by great deal fuller, at least, than the or- named in this resolution, have been one party, was to do this work for one dinary newspaper reports of the tes- reporters upon the Congressional Globe dollar per thousand ems, while the timony given by the witnesses; and corps, in the House of Representatives proposition submitted by the other. what is done before military commis- for the time I had the honor to be a party was to do it for a lower rate of sions, I suppose, is something of a member of that body, for four sessions; compensation. The impression left similar character. In my judgment, and I can certify that they are of the upon the committee, as I understood and from such information as I have first in ability upon that corps, second | it, by the one party, was that he could been able to obtain, reporting for a to none upon it; which, so far as they not afford to do the work for a less comVOL. 1-No. 3.

pensation; that that was the lowest it of them except what report stated and we should employ men of the highest ought to be done for. It forcibly re- what I learned from conversation with skill in the profession for that purpose. minded me of a story I once read of a individuals. I came to the conclusion We know that Mr. Lord possesses that man who wanted a new hat. He pro- that both parties were competent, skill, for we have had evidence before ceeded to the store of an honest Quaker, therefore I merely said to the Chair- us that satisfied us of that fact. And as he thought, looked out the article man, that I would favor those who in addition to the evidence which he he wished, but found that the price would do the work at the lowest price. submitted to us, I have here a letter of was too high. He tried to beat the In coming to that conclusion, I would recommendation addressed to me from Quaker down in his price, but the not ask whether a person lived west, Hon. William A. Howard, of this State, Quaker turned to him and said, "As I east, north or south. In fact I would which recommendation I think is enlive, I cannot afford it to thee cheap- be willing to employ a man from the titled to considerable weight. With er." The customer replied, "As you State of South Carolina to report our the permission of the Convention I will live, you may not be able to do it; but debates, if he was as good a reporter read it. It is as follows: live more moderately and be damned as any other and would do the work to you, and then you can." (Laughter.) cheaper. I do not recognize boundaNow, if a party asked a high price for ries in these matters; we should be this work, and said that a competent national in all things. man could not be found to do it for less than one dollar per thousand ems, and yet when competition came in he offered to do it for eighty cents per thousand, it leaves us somewhat in the same fix as the parties in the story. I say let our Western men have the benefit of it.

Still, I do not like to have the idea go out here that the Messrs. Drapier are not competent to do this work. From conversation with men who are personally acquainted with them, I am satisfied that they can do this work satisfactorily to the Convention.

Mr. PRATT. It will be noticed that Mr. COOLIDGE. I do not feel the the committee recommend that a verforce of the remarks of the gentleman batim report be made of the debates from Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR.) All and proceedings of this Convention. the proof that I have before me of the I think it important that we should competency of these gentlemen whose decide, in the first place, whether this names are before the Convention, is Convention will order a verbatim from the statements of members of report. this body. It is said by two members It be known to the members of may of the committee that these gentlemen this Convention that the book which I from New York and Philadelphia are hold in my hands, which is the report competent. I have their statement, of the Convention of 1850, is not a and I rely upon it. On the other verbatim report. I am told that very hand I have the statement of the few Conventions like this have verbagentleman from St. Joseph, (Mr. tim reports made of their debates. STOUGHTON,) who says he knows the But, it is my opinion, in order to have Messrs. Drapier to be competent reports which shall be valuable to us men; and I rely upon his state- as a matter of reference, and in order ment. But I do not understand from to justify the very great expense which what has been said here, why I can we are about to incur, our reports conclude that the gentlemen from New should be verbatim.

DETROIT, May 14, 1867. DEAR SIR-The bearer, Mr. W. B. Lord, visits Lansing, wishing to be employed as re porter of the Convention. I know him well. He is just the man you want. He has no superior. He went to Kansas with me.

He

reported for the Committee on the "Conduct
of the War." He is one of the Congressional
Globe reporters.
Respectfully,

HON. D. L. PRATT.

WM. A. HOWARD.

Mr. LEACH. I desire to say but a single word in regard to this matter.. I was a member of the Convention of 1850, and unless we can have something vastly superior to the report which was made of the debates of that Convention, I should prefer having nothing published but the simple journal of our proceedings. The report of the debates of the Convention of 1850 is very defective, very imperfect, and of very little value. Most all that there is in it which is of value is what was written out by the members themselves; and unless we can have something vastly superior to that, I am in favor of having no report at all of our debates.

For my part, I shall vote for the employment of Mr. Lord and Mr. Brown to make our reports. I have had occasion for four years to observe York and Philadelphia are competent Now what has influenced me in join- the proceedings of the House of Repreporters, and yet that I have not evi- ing in the recommendation that Mr. sentatives in Washington, and I know dence that the Messrs. Drapier are Lord be employed for this purpose, is that no man can maintain his position competent men. I take the statement the fact that he has produced before on the staff of reporters for the Conof the honorable gentleman from St. the committee the report of the de-gressional Globe, unless he is a firstJoseph, and I take the statement of bates of the Maryland Constitutional class reporter. And I want no other the members of the committee. Convention of 1864, of which body he evidence of, the competency of Mr. I believe from all that I have heard, was the official reporter. We have Lord and Mr. Brown, than the fact that the gentlemen named in the examined that book, and are satisfied that they hold such a position there. amendment of the gentleman from St. from an inspection of it that it is a The question was upon the amendJoseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON,) are compe- verbatim report. We do not under- ment of Mr. STOUGHTON, to strike from tent to do the reporting for this Con- take to say that these other gentlemen the resolution the names of Wm. Blair vention; and I think there is force in are not qualified to make such a re- Lord, and David Wolfe Brown, and the remark which has been made, that port. All that we do undertake to say insert in lieu thereof the names of we ought to encourage those that live is that they have not furnished us suf- Messrs. A. and W. H. Drapier. near us. It is very convenient to have ficient evidence to satisfy us that they reporters near us, and I shall vote for are entirely competent to make a verthe amendment. batim report of the debates and proceedings of this Convention.

Mr. MORTON. I was one of the members of this committee, but being If we are not to have a verbatim of the minority, I took but little part report made, but a mere sketch of our in the deliberations, except in reference debates, then there may be force in the to the price of printing. I certainly remark that we should employ western expressed no preference between these men. But if we are to have an accureporters, for I knew noting of either rate, precise and verbatim report, then

Upon a division, ayes 21, nays 44, the amendment was not agreed to. The resolution was then adopted.

RULES FOR THE CONVENTION.

Mr. WILLIAMS. The committee, to whom was referred the subject of preparing rules for the government of this Convention, have instructed me to report that they have had the same

RULE 22. Propositions committed to the committee of the whole shall first be read through by the Secretary, and then read and debated by clauses. All amendments shall be endorsed on a separate piece of paper, and so reported to the Convention by the Chair-to invite the resident clergymen of this man standing in his place. city to open our daily sessions with RULE 23. The rules of the Convention shall devotional exercises, to report that far as they may be applicable, except that the they have performed the duties asbe observed in committee of the whole, so ayes and nays shall not be called, nor the pre-signed them, and have obtained a vious question enforced. favorable response to the invitation. The pastors of this city will be happy to comply with the request of the Convention, and to perform the services desired of them.

the majority, may be at liberty to move for a HON. CHARLES M. CROSWELL, President of

RULE 15. The previous question shall be in this form: "Shall the main question be now put?" And if demanded by a majority of the members elect, its effect shall be to put RULE 30. No rule of the Convention shall an end to all debate, and bring the Conven- be suspended, altered or amended, without tion to direct vote upon amendments, if any the concurrence of two-thirds of the members are pending, and then upon the main ques-present, tion, which shall be the section or article under consideration, as the Convention may direct.

STATE TREASURER'S OFFICE,
Lansing, May 17, 1867.
HON. CHARLES M. CROSWELL, President of the
Constitutional Convention:

Convention on the 15th inst.:

I

always been customary in this State to send to the newspapers of the State the published proceedings of both DEAR SIR-In response to the following houses of the Legislature, and I think resolution, adopted by the Constitutional it proper that a similar course should be pursued by this Convention. hope this resolution will not be further amended so as to send these journals to the township clerks. If they are sent to them, in nine cases out of ten they will be thrown aside and treated as of no value, although they will cost the State a large sum of money. As I under

Resolved, That the State Treasurer be requested to report, at an early day, to this Convention, the amount, classification and terms of payment of the public debt of this State,

I would respectfully report that the funded

and fundable State debt is as follows:

$100,000 00

216,000 00

207,000 00

500,000 00

1878,

500,000 00

6's,

1883,

750,000 00

7's,

1886,

1,100,500 00

7'8,

"May 1st, 1890,.

463,000 00

Sault Canal Bonds, 6's, due January 1st, 1879,
Renewal Loan Bonds, 6's, due

December 6, 1865.

Amboy, Lansing and Traverse Bay, and Flint and Pere Marquette,...
Amboy, Lansing and Traverse Bay, and Port Huron and Milwaukee,..........
Bay de Noquet and Marquette, and Chicago, St. Paul and Fon du Lac,....
Amboy, Lansing and Traverse Bay, and Grand Rapids and Indiana,.
Bay do Noquet and Marquette and Ontonagon,..

Detroit and Marquette, and Amboy, Lansing and Traverse Bay,
Chicago, St. Paul and Fon du Lac, and Marquette and Ontonagon,
Bay de Noquet and Marquette, Chicago, St. Paul and Fon du Lac, and
Detroit and Milwaukee, and Grand Rapids and Indiana,... • •
Grand Rapids and Indiana, and Flint and Pere Marquette,.......

Marquette and Ontonagon,.

STATE DEBT.

The PRESIDENT also laid before the Convention the following communication from the State Treasurer:

6's,

6's,

4,000 00

12,000 00

63,642 70

$3,916,142 70

Very respectfully,

H. D. BARTHOLOMEW,
Deputy Stlae Treasurer.

On motion of Mr. FERRIS,
The communication was laid on the
table, and ordered printed in the
journal.

DISTRIBUTION OF THE JOURNAL AND DE-
BATES.

Mr. LEACH. I move to take from
the table the resolution offered by my-
self on the first day of the session of
this Convention, in regard to furnish-
ing the journals of our proceedings to
the various newspapers of this State.
The motion was agreed to.

The question was upon adopting the resolution which had been amended so as to read as follows:

Resolved, That the State Printer be instructed to forward, by mail one copy of the daily journal and debates to each newspaper published in the State, and to each county clerk, during the session of the Convention.

Mr. HENDERSON. stand it, this resolution has now been amended so as to include the distribution of the debates. I am certainly opposed to that. portion of the resolution, although I was in favor of it in the form originally presented by the gentleman from Grand Traverse, (Mr. LEACH.) I am opposed to distributing the debates in this way; for while it will entail a great expense on the State, they will not be read, and thus neither the people nor ourselves will be benefited by them.

The question was on the amendment of Mr. BURTCH, and being taken, it was not agreed to.

The question recurred upon the resolution.

Mr. P. D. WARNER.

I am not fully advised in relation to the extent and scope of this resolution. As I understand it, it imposes upon the Secretary the duty of forwarding to each newspaper and county clerk in the State, a copy of the journal of proceedings, and the debates of this Convention. Now I am not aware that this Convention has yet ordered the daily publication of our debates. If that has not been done, then the Secretary may find himself embarrassed in endeavoring to carry out the requirements of this resolution.

Mr. LEACH. I think the resolution was right as I originally offered it, providing simply that the journal of proceedings should be sent to the newspapers of the State. That has been the course heretofore pursued by our Legislature, and I think it is about all that can be expected of us. I opposed the amendments which have been made to it, but I am willing the resolution should be passed in its present form.