efficient state, he thought could only, a most unsatisfactory reason to say, that in the present state of the country, be the protection of the revenue required kept to rot; it would be well to consider, this expense: if that were true, it would whether it was right to support them at be better, in every other as well as in a all, or whether they would eventually be pecuniary point of view, to alter the laws, found as beneficial in case of war. If it so as to prevent the necessity of any such cost now above six millions to keep only extraordinary protection. He saw there 130 of theseships in commission, what sum, was a charge for hired packets, and this he would ask, would it require to fit out charge was connected with the Post-office the five hundred, if they were once more department. He thought these two estacalled into action? Was the country blishments ought to be kept entirely sepain a state to admit of such an outlay? rate, and that the House ought to see They never could repay in value the sums distinctly what was paid for the Navy, which were wasted upon them; and he and what for the Post-office.-He was would humbly submit, that the best policy sorry to have taken up so much of the in their present state, would be, to keep the time of the committee, but he thought it vessels they now possessed in an efficient necessary to express his disapprobation state, and give up that rash and improvi- of the estimates, because he was convinced dent system of building new ones, which they were such as the state of Europe did were only destined, like their prede- not require. He disapproved also of the cessors, to rot in the dock-yards. He manner in which promotions had been should be glad to see the attention of the made in the course of the last year, and Admiralty turned to the recent discoveries of the number of those promotions. By which had been made respecting steam- increasing the number of pensions it added vessels used as ships of war; and to con- to the dead weight, and would continue sider, that in the event of this country to do so, while the present establishment being engaged in war, a great change should be kept up. The officers themmust of necessity take place, by which selves were dissatisfied at the unfairness many of our ships would be rendered wholly and hardships which they experienced in useless. Upon this subject he could as- having young men, who had no other sure the House, that the expenses which claim to promotion than their family inwere constantly incurred were, in the opi- fluence, raised above them, and being thus nion of persons well qualified to judge, a deprived of the rank and advantages to downright waste. The expenses of im- which their long services entitled them. proving and finishing the dock-yards at He trusted that ministers would do someSheerness would amount to little less than thing to check the injurious system which 2,000,000l. The estimate for this year prevailed, and that they would be conalone amounted to 150,000l. It had been vinced of the inutility of promoting so admitted, that if the use of steam-boats in many officers. He did not know how taking vessels up and down the river had many promotions had taken place this been known, these works would not have year, but he believed the numbers were been begun. But surely, now that the between 500 and 600. Many persons, he advantages of steam-boats were duly ap- knew, were of opinion, that promotions preciated, the extensive dock-yards at should go on; he thought that if they Chatham might be appropriated for all did, they should at least go on very the necessary purposes; and as there was slowly. All the promotions should be no longer any difficulty in taking ships made on account of long services alone; thither, it could not be prudent to throw and in time of peace, no new ones away this 150,000l. at Sheerness. He should take place. was not sure that the accounts contained any other items which required a particular notice. The aggregate amount appeared to be 6,135,000l., which he thought a great deal too large at this time. In 1792, the character of the British navy had been no less high, nor was it less respected abroad than at the present moment, and then one-fourth of its present number of ships had been found enough for all useful purposes. He took it to be

Sir G. Clerk said, he had no wish to complain either of the statements which had just been made by the hon. member, or of the manner in which he had brought them forward; for he had done no more than what he conceived to be his duty, in directing the attention of the committee to such matters. The hon. gentleman had objected to the aggregate amount of the half-pay and pension charge, as being this year excessive, instead of exhibiting

a decrease. Now, taking the whole of | In the latter, commissions were granted the half-pay, he would admit that this to lieutenants, who must have already charge had increased; but if the hon. passed through a long period of service: gentleman alluded to the half-pay of in the marines, they were given to officers, he would find that, in truth, a individuals without regard to the same material reduction in the amount had conditions of previous service. It was taken place. The increase was in the impossible to stop promotion in the civil class of the half-pay; and it was navy for several reasons. Many of great undoubtedly, owing to two causes. those promotions took place on foreign The first of these was the material re- stations, and were but a moderate reward duction of official establishments which for the services of persons who were intook place in 1822, when a vast number of duced principally by the chance of proclerks in particular departments of the pub- motion to go to the coast of Africa and lic service, connected with the navy were other unhealthy climates. If the chance discharged. None but the ablest and the of promotion did not exist, it would be most efficient clerks, in many instances, difficult to find persons to go on such were retained; but they who were so dis- hazardous service. The hon. member bad charged, had the strongest claims on ac- also said, that there was a great increase count of their long services, upon the in the item for salaries for clerks in the consideration of government. Another civil departments of the navy. The hon. cause, which had swelled this aggregate member must have known that those clerks to its present amount, had been the great were entitled to a small progressive increase diminution of the funds for the Widows' of salary, and if he had taken the trouble to pension. During the war, large contri- look into the subject, he would have disbutions were levied on the pay of officers covered that this circumstance, and nothing and crews of ships, and to such an amount, else, was the cause of the increase of the that no calls were made on the public item alluded to. The hon. gentleman, in bounty. But now, from obvious causes, alluding to the million which he supposed these funds had become much exhausted; was paid for building and repairs, had and the consequence was, that a charge fallen into an error similar to that which of 90,000l. appeared in these estimates the hon. Secretary for the Admiralty had for that item alone, which had not ap- set him right about some time ago. He peared in the former estimates to which was, however, happy to say, notwiththe hon. gentleman referred. For the standing the hon. gentleman's misinformasame reasons, Greenwich Hospital, which, tion on this subject, that at no period of in war-time, had contributed to these ob- the history of this country had the ships jects very large sums of money, accruing in ordinary been in a better state than from unclaimed pay, wages and prize- they were at present, and that being reshares, had now become dried up. And paired with seasoned timber, they had though parliament had directed, that the shown no symptoms of the ravages of the funds in question should contribute to the dry-rot. A great expense was neces payment of these services, as long as they sarily incurred for the purpose of keep lasted, still, when they became so far ex- ing the ships in repair; but it was an extinct as to furnish sufficient only for the pense which was wholly unavoidable. The payment of in-door pensioners, &c., it hon. member had objected to the works became necessary to apply to this House going on at Sheerness, now that steam for the means of replacing them. The boats would answer all the purposes for item of "Greenwich Hospital" which those works had been undertaken. 260,000l.; and if the hon. gentleman He would give the hon. member the would add this sum, and the deficiencies benefit of his argument, which only he had spoken of, together, he would see amounted to this, that by transferring the they amounted to about 400,0007.; which vessels from Sheerness to Chatham, the amount he would, of course, take into ac-establishments at Chatham must be incount, as forming a large portion of the excess of charge that he complained of. In the half-pay of officers there was a decided decrease of charge. As to what the hon. gentleman had said, respecting promotions, the marines were, in this respect, quite a different service from the navy.

was

creased. By having those docks at Sheer ness, an opportunity offered of putting every ship into dock, and of inspecting them in every part. The hon. member had complained of the expenditure of two millions upon those docks; but, when the hon. member made that com

plaint, he ought to have remembered, that this work was undertaken for the purpose of saving a sum of ten millions, the estimated expense of works proposed to be erected at Northfleet. He should only further observe, that if unfortunately this country should be again involved in hostilities, it would be found that advantage had been taken of every invention necessary to maintain thenaval superiority of Great Britain.

After a short conversation, the several resolutions were agreed to.

ment of the main principle of the bill?: And was this to be the result after all their anxiety to get the small notes out of circulation, and after all the executions at Newgate? There was no boon in the proposed change; it was a paltry alteration. He had been desirous not to discuss this question, so as to excite any popular feeling, especially when the country was in such difficulties; but, after the communication that had just been made, he could not avoid speaking of it as a paltry proceeding. A superior necessity had occasioned the recent issue of PROMISSORY NOTES BILL]. The Chan- Bank of England small notes: to that cellor of the Exchequer rose to move the necessity he bowed; but, after what had order of the day for the second reading of been promised, he did not expect this this bill. Before he did so, he wished to alteration, and thought the directors destate to the House, that it was his inten- served to be arraigned for their conduct. tion, in the committee, to submit a pro- He called upon the House to consider position, not to the extent suggested by what they were about. Would they, or the hon. member for Newton (Mr. Hud- would they not, put down the evil which, son Gurney), which he thought went too by the gigantic rapidity of its advances, far, but a modification of it. The pro- had brought the country to the brink of position of the hon. member was, if he destruction? What was the paltry conunderstood him right, that the circulation sideration that was to induce the House of small notes should be prohibited to the to abandon the original principle of the country banks, and yet the issue should bill? For his part, he would not lend his be permanently allowed to the Bank of humble countenance to such deviation, England. Now, this proposition would but would, even if he stood alone, divide be very unjust to the country banks, and the House upon the subject. It became inconsistent with the whole principle of the House to show the country that, the measure. But, it had been repre- however pressing might be the difficulties, sented to him, that a limitation of that they were resolved to surmount them by proposition, so far from impeding the steadiness and discretion, rather than measure, would promote its success. It was suffer themselves to be led into an aban his intention, therefore, to propose, that donment of those principles which they instead of prohibiting the Bank of Eng-proposed as the groundwork of a remedy land from issuing small notes dated sub- to the existing evils. sequently to the 5th of February last, it should be left to them to issue such notes dated previous to the 10th of October next. The object of this proposition was, to give the country bankers facilities for preparing themselves for the effects of the bill, and the gradual withdrawal of their notes. It had been stated, that the greatest possible inconvenience would arise, if all the small notes were completely withdrawn at one moment. When the bill came into the committee, he should propose that there should be such a limitation as he had stated. He should, however, propose, that the notes of the Bank of England should be finally with drawn, at the same time as those of the country banks.

Mr. Ellice asked, what great relief was to be afforded by this alteration, and whether it was not, in fact, an abandon

Mr. Bright said, he felt strongly for the distresses under which the country continued to labour; and would ask, were not he and his friends fully justified in voting against the bill? Were not he and his hon. friends justified in asking, whether the present was a proper time for the introduction of such a measure? Were they not justified in having voted against it, under the existing circumstances of the country? Were they not justified in the belief which they had expressed, that ministers could not carry it? Were they not justified in their assertion, that it was impossible that the country could bear the operation of the bill? Were they not justified in stating that, taxed and im poverished as they were, the people ought not to be additionally distressed by the withdrawal of the small-note currency? He had already declared his intention of

[542 small paper, they withdrew their one- and extraordinary, that he found a diffipound notes from circulation. Did that culty in conforming to it. In after-years, look like a desire to force them into cir- when the history of this country should culation? On the contrary, so well were be narrated, it would be said, "This little they satisfied with the results of the step island was originally called Lilliput, and they had taken-so strong was their recol- it was then governed by dwarfs; it next lection of past difficulties, and of the thou- assumed the name of Brobdignag, under sand unpleasant circumstances attendant the sway of giants. Finally, its name was upon the existence of a small-note cur- Laputa, and its rulers were philosophers. rency-that, so far from wishing to send From that period its glory began to vanish, their one and two pound notes again into its strength to decay, its might to decline, circulation, they were most anxious, as and it has degenerated into a state comtheir conduct had evinced, to withdraw mensurate with the insignificance of its them entirely. The hon. gentleman came geometrical extent." The right hon. down on one night and arraigned the go- gentlemen on the other side had, as it vernment, and the next he inveighed appeared to him, deviated from their against the Bank; but, he would ask the principle. They had set out on the theory hon. gentleman, whether he really thought of introducing a metallic currency and he had any grounds for those attacks? withdrawing the paper money from circufor it must be apparent, that, as far as the lation. And what was the purport of their Bank was concerned, they had, in order present proposal? Why, merely to subto supply the vacuum created by the with- stitute for the paper of the country banks, drawal of the country notes, issued a cer- the notes of the Bank of England-notes' tain number of one and two pound notes, which were more liable to be forged than and they had no possible objection to any other. He (Sir J. W.) had never withdraw them. It was reported to go- wished to see one-pound notes issued, but vernment, that the country banks were that they afforded facilities to manufacsuddenly withdrawing their small notes, turers and workmen. He knew it to be and it was to meet the want that would a fact, that within fourteen miles of Birthus be created, that the proposed alter-mingham, forged Bank of England notes ation was intended. He assured the hon. member for Coventry, that he could not be more anxious than he himself was, to make the pressure that would ensue from the withdrawal of the small notes operate as evenly as possible. If danger could be apprehended from that being done too suddenly, the House would give great facility to its own object, by averting that danger. There was this great difference between the two hon. gentlemen : one said, that the whole issues ought to be withdrawn, no matter what might be the consequence; the other said, "you never can withdraw them at all." He was quite sure, notwithstanding all that had been said to the contrary, that the metallic curréncy would, in a very short period, entirely supersede the dreadful issue of small notes.

Sir J. Wrottesley said, he was apprehensive that the incidental wants of the country would oblige ministers to abandon their original principle, and that when they should have abandoned their principle, his hon. friends, of the philosophic club behind him, would come down upon them. Do what they would, ministers could not please. The system of going on upon principle and theory was to him so novel

had been offered eight and forty hours after the time those notes were re-issued. The bulk of the provincial notes came back to the country banks, upon an average, in six weeks. Now, if the banker must bring gold from London, he would not re-issue his notes, and the country would have no circulation at all. With respect to the metallic currency, he had been informed that ten out of every fifteen sovereigns brought to the Bank were not worth 18s. from their having been sweated down. In this dearth of genuine circulation, ministers were taking away country bank notes, which were seldom forged, and suffering the reissue of Bank of England notes, which were easily forged.

Mr. Hudson Gurney said, that the degree in which the chancellor of the Exchequer had consented to enlarge the time for allowing the Bank of England to issue small notes, was, in his view, so far from being a dereliction of the plans which the right hon. gentleman had brought forward, that he was convinced, that it was the only possible manner in which they could be carried into effect. He had, on a former occasion, entered into the great distinction that existed between the cir