Mr. Calcraft said, that the Bank proprietors might refuse to call for the accounts, from a confidence in their directors, but it did not follow that parliament should participate in the same confidence. He did not mean to say whether parliament confided, or did not, in that body, for he would decide on each case as it arose. With reference to the stoppage of the stamping of country bank notes, it was, on the part of ministers, a glaring violation of the existing law, and ought not to have been done without notice. Did the government mean to continue the instructions already sent to the board, to prevent the further stamping. If they did, he would tell the right hon. gentleman that the proceeding would cast such a discredit on the country bank notes, as to throw the local circulation in every corner of the kingdom into the greatest confusion. The effect would necessarily be, that the panic, which was said to be subsiding, must become perpetuated. There was no analogy between the mode of effecting this matter, and the regulating the duty on thrown silk; for, in the latter, the thing was cautiously done, and proper security was received from the parties. But was any security here taken for the loss of revenue which the country would suffer from stopping the stamping of country bank notes? The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that government had been induced to send that order to the Stamp-office, that advantage might not be taken by the country bankers to get stamped an unusual quantity of notes; by which means the effect of the proposed measure would be forestalled. He did not intend to deny, that the issuing such an order might require an act of indemnity from parliament, but he trusted, when the necessity of the case was taken into consideration, that the House would not impute such a proceeding to any improper motive. Mr. Calcraft did not mean to say, that ministers were actuated by improper motives; but he believed that in this, as in many other instances, they had committed a great error in judgment, and fallen into heavy mistakes. Why not have mentioned their intention? The parties would then have known their real situation? The ministers might rely upon it, that this harsh and abrupt measure would deteriorate the local currency, and keep alive the panic which they thought had subsided. Mr. Ellice approved of the course adopted by government. If they had not stopped the stamping of country notes, the consequence would have been, that the country banks might have supplied themselves for a year to come, by which means the laudable intention of government would have been defeated. He granted that such a proceeding was illegal; but, in a case of so much importance, the duty of government was, to weigh what would be of the least inconvenience to the public; and, in his opinion, they had chosen the right course. Mr. Calcraft was surprised at the lightness with which his hon. friend appeared to treat the subject. He supposed his hon. friend was not aware that every country bank had taken out and paid for a license, which entitled them to get notes stamped up to next October, under the sanction of an act of parliament. He was glad to see the right hon. gentleman treat the subject more seriously. Mr. Ellice disclaimed having recommended the measure; but did not apprehend the same consequences from it as his hon. friend. Mr. Gordon beheld the measure with great alarm. From the information which he had received from the country, he could add his testimony to what had been stated by his hon. friend, of the effect which it was likely to have in deteriorating the country bank notes. He regretted that government had taken, upon its own authority, to effect this object in so strong and unconstitutional a manner, without the previous interposition of parliament. He had heard of notes being sent up to be stamped, and which were expected back to meet previously formed engagements. Let the House contemplate the inconvenience which must follow from such a state of things. He hoped ministers would re-consider the matter before it was too late, or else the agricultural distress of 1821 and 1822 would return upon the country with redoubled force. Mr. Robertson was no advocate for the banking system, but must condemn the measures which were in contemplation. After encouraging extensive circulation, it ill became ministers so abruptly to suspend it. Mr. Monck thought the measure most salutary. In proposing it, government had not led, but followed, the public mind, which was unequivocally in favour of it. The injury done to the private bankers was not so extensive as was represented; for, without any enactment on the subject, that species of circulation would have ceased to exist before the expiration of a year. Perhaps the measure in question might have been rendered unnecessary by a resolution, declaring that all notes issued since the 4th of February, should be recalled from circulation. In taking it, however, ministers were fully justified. The motion was then agreed to. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, February 10. BANK CHARTER, AND PROMISSORY NOTES ACTS.] On the order of the day for going into a committee on the above acts, Lord Folkestone, before the Speaker left the chair, wished to have an opportunity of expressing what he felt as to the course now pursued. The question to be considered was one of great importance, upon which the House ought to have had some information beforehand. In his opinion, the right hon. gentleman had stolen rather an unfair march upon them. On the first day of the session he had given notice of a motion upon the subject generally, which was to come on at an early day. On a subsequent day, the right hon. gentleman had explained more fully that his motion would go to a consideration of the Bank charter acts in a committee of the whole House. On Monday last the right hon. gentleman came down, and moved that the acts respecting the Bank charter and promissory notes should be entered as read. They now passed at once to the order of the day for going into the committee. The objection which he had might appear technical only, but it comprised something very essential to the order of their proceedings, The House might be very willing and very right in agreeing to go into the committee; but, as the case stood, they had been led into an admission, which perhaps they might not have made upon a more regular discussion. He, for one, was not at all prepared for the discussion of the measures to be proposed in the committee. He was without that degree of information which was necessary. If, indeed, the right hon. mover would, on the question that the Speaker do leave the chair, detail his plan, and show clearly the nature of what he intend ed to propose in the committee, his objection would be obviated. But, if he required the House to go first of all into the committee, then would the House be treated most unfairly. And this was one of the inconveniencies arising from the practice which now prevailed of voting an address in answer to the speech on the first day of the sessions-that they found themselves pledged to the measures of government, in a degree which restrained them afterwards. He well remembered that several gentlemen protested against being pledged by that address to the support of the measures which might be proposed upon the various subjects to which it referred. This objection of his was not a mere matter of form, but a point of substantial importance. The House ought certainly to be in possession of what was intended to be brought, before they went into the committee; for it might turn out, that there was no reason for going into the committee at all. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the term used by the noble lord, that he had stolen a march on the House, could not be justly applied to him. That which he was now doing was the usual practice of the House. With regard to the notice of the motion, he had found that it was incorrectly expressed. The consequence was, that his intentions had been much misunderstood. He had moved that the House should resolve itself into a committee this day, to take into consideration the Bank Charter, and Promissory Notes Acts. He apprehended, supposing that some measures were by general admission necessary, that the only proper course was a discussion of the whole subject in a committee. Not the smallest idea was conveyed to his mind, that any gentleman would adopt a step which must thwart altogether, if persevered in, any measure of any description, however urgent the necessity for proceeding. Now that, and nothing less, would be the effect of the noble lord's objection. There would, in fact, under these circumstances, be no consideration of the Bank-charter acts. The objection would, in limine, stop the discussion, and frustrate the measures which he had to propose on the part of government. The course which he had taken was the usual course, and that which was the most convenient. He should, in all probability, be called upon to answer questions and explain matters of doubt, not once or twice, but repeatedly. If he were driven to the course which the noble lord wished him to take, he must lay open his plan so as to meet all objections which would be brought against it, without any sufficient opportunity for clearing away such objections; as he would be precluded from addressing the House more than once. Mr. Baring complained of the inexpediency of the mode adopted. If the statement which they so anxiously expected would meet the difficulties of the country according to the estimate formed of those difficulties by ministers, undoubtedly the right hon. gentleman was going to propose something upon a subject of the deepest importance, concerning which the House was called upon to deliberate with a total insufficiency of information. The course taken was only suitable to subjects of a common and obvious kind. If they were about to consult on a subject of the most insignificant nature, they could not proceed with greater levity whereas this was a subject which should have been preceded by every possible means of intelligence. Many papers and documents ought to have been produced, some of which had been actually moved for no doubt with a view to their usefulness on this occasion. But, at the same time, so urgent was the whole subject, so sensitive was the whole country, so anxiously did they wish to know what the government were go ng to propose, that he could wish his noble friend to wave his objection. If they found themselves not to be in a condition to go on with the discussion they might report progress and ask leave to sit again. ། said acts, unless where ministers proved such alteration to be indispensably necessary. The Speaker having left the chair, The Chancellor of the Exchequer then rose. If, he said, he did not feel that he was acting in the discharge of a great public trust, however unworthily or unfortunately imposed on him, he should be appalled at the magnitude and importance, if not at the difficulty, of the subject on which he had now to address the House. He was well aware that much criticism would be applied, that many objections would be brought against him, both on the principle and the details of the measure which it would be his business to submit. He was well aware, that, notwithstanding the impression on his own mind was clear as to the real causes, and the proper remedy for the evils which had lately visited the country, he was likely to meet with no light hostility to his propositions. He perfectly understood the feelings which actuated the minds of some individuals on the agitation of topics of this nature; and to any observations which might flow from him in the course of this discussion, he was prepared to meet no small degree of misunderstanding, as to the principles and grounds on which he proposed to rest the projected measures. One source of reliance at least he found in himself: he came to this deliberation with a good conscience; and he hoped he might venture to ask the House for their gravest attention. He invoked their patience more particularly, because he felt a fear within himself, that he could not contrive to compress within those limits which the House usually expected its members to observe, the various parts of so intricate and interesting a subject. He entreated the indulgence of the House, therefore, to the extent of a patient hearing; not deprecating any hostile observations, in whatever spirit pronounced; but only asserting his claim to that forbearance and attention which the subject demanded, and without the exercise of which, it would be utterly impossible for him to discharge the duty which he owed to the government, to the House, and to the country. Lord Folkestone said, his only wish was, that the House might know upon what they were to deliberate, before pledging themselves to deliberation. They ought to have the subject adequately explained; and his view was, that if not done before, at any rate it ought to have been done while the Speaker was in the chair. The effect of the present motion was, to pledge the House to an alteration of the Bank acts, without knowing that there was any necessity for alteration. However, as the feeling of the House was against the mode of proceeding which he proposed, he would not persevere in it. Mr. Calcraft said, the noble lord was right in his objection to the course taken; but it would not have the effect of precluding objections to the plan. For one, he protested now against any alteration of the Before he stated in detail the views of the government, or gave any exposition of the facts connected with the case, or the grounds of the measures which he had to propose, and which, according to the conviction of ministers, the best interests misery and distress; and, secondly, whether the measures which his majesty's government had determined to bring under their consideration, were the most fitting and proper to produce the desired effect, it was, in his opinion, a matter of essential necessity that they should satisfy their minds as to the immediate causes of that particular evil to which they were about to apply a remedy. Because, if they did not set out with a clear understanding of the case in all its bearings-if they did not thoroughly understand the disease to which they were about to administer a cure cure they would legislate in the dark they would aggravate the distress, and create still greater mischiefs than any they had yet experienced, by fallaciously leading both themselves and others to the belief, that they were applying infallible remedies. Infallible, in his belief, they could not be: for no man, he hoped, would suppose he could flatter himself with any idea of applying any thoroughly effectual remedy to all the fluctuations of trade; the rise and fall of prices; or the ebb and flow of public and private confidence. It was manifest that in all societies, constituted like ours-in all great commercial countries, where activity, enterprise, and speculation, formed as it were the very elements of existence, there must be great and sudden changes of the people and the safety of the country required, he trusted he should be allowed to make a few observations, which he would not have made but for something which had fallen from various quarters, and which seemed to justify him in doing so. He was aware that one objection of a very general kind awaited him; namely, that it would have been more prudent and more advisable in all respects, if government had altogether abstained from making any decided allusions to the causes of the late general distress. He wished those who were of that sentiment would do him the favour to reflect on the situation in which ministers were placed, and to reflect, not only on their situation as to the present question, but also-which was a consideration of a thousand times more importance on the situation in which the country was placed. If they had not taken this course, it would yet have been impossible for them to have refrained from some other mode of interference. If they had abstained, and had held themselves aloof, would they have been sure of silence in other parts of the House? Would many gentlemen, whom he now saw before him, have been silent? Would the public have been silent? Would ministers not have been loudly called upon to state explicitly, and distinctly, whether, considering the situation of the country, they meant to propose any new measures, and what those measures were? Good God, what answer could they give to these calls? Could they say that they would give no answer-that they would be silent? If they had adopted that course, they would have occasioned evils of much greater magnitude than any that could arise from the most complete publicity; they would have aggravated the feelings of public difficulty and distress, in a degree of which he did not wish to incur the responsibility. Whether their measures were right or wrong, it would be for parliament and the country to judge; but altogether silent respecting them, they could not have been. On that score they were entirely free from blame, and the objection, he conceived, was utterly unfounded. In order that the House and the country might be able to form a proper judgment; first, whether any thing should be done to prevent the recurrence of those evils which had been viewed by all with such apprehension, and which had been, in fact, attended with incalculable periods of long-continued prosperity, and seasons of temporary and trying adversity. All history produced instances of these extraordinary fluctuations in every country, which had applied itself to commercial pursuits. He could well understand how the argument arising out of that proposition could be turned against him, and how the very knowledge of the continual recurrence and universality of the evil should leave it to work out its own cure. What legislative measure, he knew it might be asked, could remedy that which seemed to be a natural consequence of situation; or why proceed upon the mistaken assumption, that you could check that which seemed to arise out of the nature of things? There did seem an inconsistency in this; but he thought he could reconcile it to that idea of our commercial situation which he wished to impress upon the House. In all countries, where refinement and civilization had made any progress, credit, as their necessary attendant, had introduced a currency, in some cases, decidedly or theoretically metallic, in others partly metallic and partly paper. vourable seasons, as they before had unfavourable, and then comes the termination of over-speculation. They knewindeed sad experience could tell themthe enormous difference between the profits of agricultural produce at one time, and at another not very remote from the first. The effect of that difference of profit goes to throw those lands out of cultivation, which have been tilled in the time of high prices; and to render unavailing all the lavish expenditure which had been encouraged by the expectation of additional remuneration. The agricultur pended capital on all other speculations dependent upon them (and few were not in some degree dependent upon them) were thrown back along with them, and that fluctuation which had proved so ruinous became the inevitable consequence. But, if these fluctuations were certainly incidental to a country whose circulation was exclusively metallic, they were still more likely to occur in a country like this, where the circulation was partly metallic and partly composed of paper convertible into metallic money. There was a facility given both to the borrower and the lender; the inevitable tendency of which was a quicker rise of prices; and, upon any reverse, to a more precipitate downfall. He repeated, that in a country so situated Take the first of these-a country, where the currency or circulating medium was either decidedly or theoretically metallic. In that country, he thought there could be no question that great fluctuations might take place from various causes, not difficult to be explained, both in trade and in prices. Suppose, that after many years of uninterrupted prosperity in agriculture, during which the prices of produce remained almost permanent, there should come, as they had seen in their own country, a succession of unfavourable seasons and supposing still further, that the supply which might naturally be ex-ists were thrown back; those who had expected from other countries to fill up the deficiency, either by the state of the laws at the time affecting their intercourse, or by some peculiar circumstances in their own situation, could not be afforded. Would it not be allowed, that the prices of agricultural produce might, by a grade almost imperceptible, when they had once acquired this tendency to rise, reach a much higher remunerating return, than the farmer had been accustomed to receive? Might not, then, this increased benefit to be derived from the culture of the soil very probably tempt the application of new capital to the culture of a species of soil, which the price of agricultural produce would not have enabled the grower of corn to till before? This, he believed, would be allowed to be a very probable and such was exactly the case of this consequence of the increased demand: country-whatever the legislature might but, that very demand carried the matter do, it must still leave it exposed to the still further. As the price of the produce chances of these fluctuations. Nothing of inferior lands must always regulate the within even the omnipotence of parliament price of that obtained from a superior soil, could prevent such fluctuations; its utmost the holders of these better grounds were, efforts could only tend to moderate their from the increased demand, and greater effects. But, if that was the nature of the remunerating price, tempted to extend evil-for an evil in its results he must call their speculations, to increase their stock, it-if the evil was of such serious magnito force their culture; and, as the specu- tude, it appeared very likely to be greatly lations and extended operations of one aggravated, although not caused-he class almost necessarily affected all other begged they would recollect the distincclasses, by consuming an increased quan- tion; it would be aggravated in a high detity of the produce of those classes, and gree by the state of the circulating medium. a consequent drawing an addition of capital For it appeared from all they had learned to forward their labours, it followed that by experience, that when the circulation the original speculation of the holder of of a paper money was not confined to land may have given a stimulus to, and notes of a larger species than one or two have been the cause of, the speculations pounds, the distress, whenever it did take of all others, and have had a natural ten-place, was increased by the existence of dency to produce the speculation and over that species of circulating medium, more speculation which may ultimately prove than by any other, and the insecurity of the cause of great disasters. For although those from whom it issued. this unnatural state of things may continue for a space of time, the course of years brings round again the same series of fa Gentlemen had said-and he believed those who knew a great deal about country banks, some of them, indeed, if he was |