to be gained by this change. During the extended discussion which has been had here upon various subjects, we have all heard it said that the State of Michigan has been troubled with too much legislation, that too often and repeated changes have been made in the laws of the State, and that too many amendments have been made in the acts of former Legislatures. Now, if that is true, how is any remedy to be effected by increasing the number of sessions of the Legislature? It does seem to me that this is a very absurd proposition. I cannot see that this change is going to remedy that evil; on the contrary, it seems to me that the evil will be increased by it. that we have had just the reverse; that subject. Believing as I do that it we have had too much legislation, that would not be for the interests of our our laws were changed too frequently; State to make this change, that the that before the people could come to people of the State do not demand it, understand what the laws were, they I shall vote in favor of the section as were changed to something else. This it came from the committee and against has been a source of great inconven- the amendment. ience and complaint on the part of the Mr. GIDDINGS. I do think that great mass of the people. They have the line of argument used here is complained that there has not been somewhat unfair, and I desire to call that stability in our laws that there the attention of members to it. The should be; that there has been too fre- suggestion is frequently made upon quent change in them. It does not the floor of this Convention, that if you seem to me that the remedy for the have a session of the Legislature every evil will be found in annual sessions of year, there will be as much time conthe Legislature. It appears to me that sumed in each session as is now taken if we should have annual sessions, the for the biennial sessions. I do not only effect would be to make the evil think that is true; I do not think that worse than it now is; our laws would such would be the fact. If you look be changed more frequently than they to the New England States, where the now are under the present system. sessions of the Legislature are annual, We are also told that in consequence you will find that the Legislatures of having sessions of the Legislature sometimes accomplish all the work of but once in two years, there is a great the session in two or three weeks; gendeal of hasty legislation. I do not erally, for the last twenty years, they know but this may be the case, but I have not taken more than three weeks am inclined to think that that evil on the average. Therefore, I think would not be remedied by having a there is no ground for the assertion session of the Legislature every year. which is made here so frequently, that It is generally known that a great deal annual sessions of our Legislature of business is hurried through the last would require as much time as biennial days of the session; and that would be sessions. We did have annual sessions the case whether the session was only at one time in this State, and for some once in two years or every year. Much years we did consume considerable time of the business of the session gets laid in legislation. But that was because aside until towards the close of the we were a new State, and there session, and then during the last few were men here from different parts of days it is crowded through with per- the Union, who had different views haps more haste than it should be. upon the various subjects before the But it seems to me that this is not Legislature. They did not harmonize necessary under our present system. so well in their action as might be exThe Legislature have all the time they pected at this time, in the present conchoose to take for completing and ma-dition of the State. The very fact that turing the work before them. If they they came from different parts of the do not take sufficient time for the pur-country to this State, for the purpose Mr. STOCKWELL. I expect soon pose, then the fault is in them, and of organizing here a new State governto be called upon to vote for the not in the fact that we do not have ment, would for a time naturally proamendment pending before the com- a session of the Legislature every duce some conflict of views among mittee. In casting that vote I desire year. them. Men came here from Massa If we have annual sessions of the Legislature, knowing, as many members do, that whenever the Legislature have convened here, they pursue ordinarily the same course, whether they come here annually or biennially, I believe that the same evil will be found to exist that is complained of in regard to biennial sessions. If there is good to be gained by annual sessions of the Legislature, very certainly there is a difficulty to be met in the way of additional expense occasioned by the more frequent sessions. That, I think, is an item worthy of consideration. Treat it as lightly as members may, I apprehend the people will keep their eye on these items. And the increased number of these items, when thrown into the aggregate, will, in my judgment, swell to an amount that will have its effect and influence upon the people. If the interests of the people of the State can be properly ensured without an increase of expense, then I am opposed to the change. I shall vote against the amendment. to cast it in such a way that it will ac- I am not convinced that the people chusetts, New York and other States; complish the greatest good for our desire this change. In fact I believe and at first more time was required, growing and enterprising State. I that they do not desire it; I believe until a system of government for this have listened with interest and atten- that the great mass of the people in State was established, than would nattion to the remarks which have been the State would feel very much disap-urally be required at this time. Theremade by the friends of this amend-pointed if this change should be made. fore, I do not think it is right to say ment. But nothing that I have heard They watch with some degree of inter- that we would now require as much has carried conviction to my mind that est the question of the expense of each time in the Legislature as was required a change from biennial to annual ses- session of the Legislature. The hard when the State was new, and a system sions of the Legislature will be a ben- working people of the rural districts of government for the State was not efit to us as a people. I know that we do not see the importance of having fully established. have been told by the friends of this a session of the Legislature for three or Now, I may not have said anything amendment, that we need sessions of four months every year. I think that,tak new upon this subject. I did not inthe Legislature oftener than once in ing the great mass of the people in the tend to do so when I was up before. two years; that the great interests of State which I represent, not one-tenth All I intended was to express at least the State suffer in consequence of not of them would be in favor of this one reason in particular which would having sessions of the Legislature change. I may be mistaken in this, influence my vote upon this subject. more frequently. This has not been but such is my understanding of the I do not desire to take up the time of the complaint in the section of the matter; and I have conversed some- the committee; I have no desire to do State which I have the honor to repre- what extensively with persons in dif- so at any time. I do not desire to sent. The great complaint has been ferent parts of my district upon this speak except when I have something Vol 2-No. 7. which I consider may be of importance to say upon any subject. Mr. GIDDINGS. I did not refer to what the gentleman did in the Convention of 1850; I alluded to the tenacity with which the gentleman clings to the Constitution of 1850. of 1850, that I resisted, as far as sess, I attempt to sustain them, both I was able to do, many of the pro- in Convention and in committee of the Therefore, it was not necessary for visions that are engrafted upon that whole. the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. Mc- Constitution. There is one provision. Mr. BRADLEY. I am not in the CLELLAND,) in referring to what I said recommended by the committee on the habit of taking up much of the time of when I was up before, to say that I had legislative department of this Conven- this body. I desire to refer, however, said nothing new at all. But I thought tion, for which I contended in the Con- to one point upon which my colleague, it was about time somebody said some-vention of 1850. I refer to the dis- (Mr. GIDDINGS,) has spoken once or thing which was not in the Constitu- tinction made between the terms of twice, in regard to the time which will tion of 1850. And whenever that gen- senators and representatives. That be occupied by the Legislature in antleman shall get outside of that old distinction is a good one, and I am nual and biennial sessions. I do not Constitution and allow something to glad to see that this Convention is dis- know of any method of arriving at what be done which may be in conflict with posed to sustain the recommendation will be, except by referring to what has that Constitution, I shall be rejoiced. of their committee in that respect. If been. The circumstances being someI have had the condemnation of the the gentleman had listened to the re- what equal in the two cases, it is to be Constitution of 1850 blazed away at my marks which I made at the commence- expected, that the results will be simihead for the last ten years, until I have ment of this session he would have un- lar. In looking over the records from got tired of it. I would be glad to get derstood that I prefer the Constitution 1835 to 1850, it will be found that on away from it and hear something of 1835. the average, as much time was spent spoken of besides the Constitution of each year, as has been spent each 1850. Sir, one of the points of contwo years, from 1850 to 1866, in the demnation against that Constitution, is sessions of the Legislature of this the fact that it provides for the meeting State. And it is to be supposed, as a of the Legislature but once in two fair conclusion, that there will be the years; that in that session the Legisla- Mr. McCLELLAND. I beg the same amount of time spent hereafter ture would remain for ninety or a hun- gentleman's pardon again; I have as has been heretofore. If the sessions dred days, and then at the last end of voted for every salutary amendment of of the Legislature held annually, would it all the work of the session which the Constitution of 1850, which has make a change in the amount of time was left undone would be crowded been offered in this Convention; and I occupied, it might be supposed that through in two or three days; and in will continue to do so hereafter. Let there would have been a great change such a manner as to be very faulty in me tell you what is the great defect of immediately after 1850, when the sesmany respects. Now, if you will only the Constitution of 1850; there is too sions were changed from annual to bido the work once a year, there will be much legislation in it. I was opposed ennial. But the fact is, that there was no necessity for spending ninety or a to so much legislation being placed in no perceptible change in the length of hundred days here. Men like our it in 1850, and I am opposed to it now. the sessions from 1850 to 1866. President, and others I might name The gentleman does not even recollect here, could come to the Legislature what I said this morning; because, in and spend twenty, or thirty, or forty the remarks which I had the pleasure days a year here, who would not be to make-not the pleasure, because it willing to spend ninety or a hundred does not afford me a great deal of days every second year. I did not in-pleasure to speak at any time. I think tend to make all these remarks; I in- the older a man grows, the wiser he tended to stop where I did before. But grows in this regard, and does not like inasmuch as I did not say anything to speak very often. new before, I thought I would try to say something new this time; and that is, that I do not think the gentleman from Wayne has ever got outside the Constitution of 1850. Mr. BILLS. Will the gentleman from Kalamazoo, (Mr. BRADLEY,) allow me to ask him one question? not had its effect more recently. We are not to judge in regard to the length of the sessions, when held annually, by what the State of Rhode Island or the State of Connecticut may do, because as we have been told here time and again, our State is under far different circumstances from the older Eastern States, and consequently we are to be expected to occupy more or less time according to the circumstances in which we are placed. Mr. BRADLEY. Yes, sir. Mr. BILLS. I would inquire of the gentlemen whether previous to 1850, the length of the session of the Legislature was limited by the Constitution? I do not speak, Mr. BRADLEY. I suppose not; and do not want to speak, until I feel that would have had its effect during that I am compelled to do so. In the first part of the last period of time the remarks which I made this mor- to which I have referred. But it has ning, I took the ground, and I generally speak loud enough so that any Mr. MCCLELLAND. I think it is gentleman can hear me if he is in well enough at all events that gentle- the Convention, (if he does not undermen here should become acquainted stand me it is my fault or his fault, as with one Constitution, should know likely to be his fault as mine,) I said something at least about one Constitu- that I had resisted that clause in the tion, before they undertake to make Constitution of 1850, which, with ananother. Now, sir, I said nothing at other question about which I am not all about the gentleman's not saying going to say anything now, gave rise to anything new; I made no such re- the calling of this Convention. I refer mark. The gentleman is ascribing to the article on salaries. If that arto me a remark which was made by ticle had been stricken out of the Con- Mr. FERRIS. How will we guide some other member of the Convention; stitution, as I myself moved in the ourselves in the decision of this matter, and therefore he gets into a terrible Convention of 1850, I do not believe whether we shall retain the system of flurry and gives me a terrible lashing. we would have had this Convention biennial sessions of the Legislature or If the gentleman had noticed what to-day. But while there are a great adopt the system of annual sessions? In I said here just now, and what I have many bad things in the Constitution of the first place, if the people of the State repeatedly said, he would not charge 1850, I believe there are a great many require such a change, then it seems me with being wedded to the Consti- good things in it. I am here for the to me that the change should be made. tution of 1850; it can be testified to purpose of sustaining those good But it has been remarked, by one genby every gentleman on this floor, things; and the gentleman must ex- tleman at least, that if the people dewho was with me in the Convention cuse me if, with the little ability I pos-sire to have such a change as this, they would have expressed that desire by answer to that question very easily. tion here is: shall we give that time to petitions, memorials or addresses to The Legislature now meets once in two them once in two years, or shall we this body. Now that is not necessarily years, and does a great amount of work, divide it up and give them a portion so; for I take it that every man on this so much that the bulk of it is com- each year? If instead of sixty or floor is an impressive memorial from plained of. It does that work so mis-seventy days in two years which they the constituents that sent him here, erably, that the quality of it is com- have had heretofore, they should be and he can speak with as much author- plained of; and the people are ham- allowed one hundred and twenty days ity, on this or any other question, as pered in many departments of their to do that same work as it ought to be could a written paper signed by some business by this erroneous, hasty and done, do we really lose anything as far few of his constituents. If gentlemen incongruous legislation. as time and expense is concerned, if have taken notice of the parts of the In making any change in the organic we devote sixty of those days to one State represented here by those who law, or any other law of the State, one year and the other sixty to the other have advocated this change, I think of the first inquiries should be, is there year? Would we make any gain, they will see that if the majority of anything wrong in the workings of the either in the compensation of members the people of this State have not given present system? The answer has been of the Legislature, or other expenses expression to sentiments in favor of given to that question a dozen times on of the State, except in the matter of this change through memorials, cer- this floor, both by the advocates of this mileage perhaps, if we put the whole tainly a large proportion of the people change and by its opponents. The one hundred and twenty days in alterhave so expressed themselves through opponents of this change, headed by nate years, instead of dividing it up their representatives here. the gentleman from Branch, (Mr. and allowing sixty days to each year? LUCE,) insist that we now have too much legislation; and if anything, that the change should be the other way, and that the Legislature hereafter should meet only once in four years, rather than once in each year. My experience has been just the All legislative bodies are liable to same among my constituents, as has commit mistakes in the enactment of been stated by other gentlemen here. laws, particularly in a growing new The soundest business men in the State like ours. From the want of exportion of the State where I reside, perience in the operation of similar have from time to time expressed laws under similar circumstances, themselves to me very much in favor Now, how comes it to pass that we they are liable to make those laws imof the change from biennial to annual have so much legislation once in two perfect. An amendment of the law is sessions of the Legislature. They gave years; such a bulk of it, and legisla- but an indication that that imperfecas a reason, not only the present cir- tion of such a quality and character? tion has been discovered. Now, nocumstances of the State, but also the I will tell you why I think such is the body doubts the fact that we have very fact that in making this Constitution case. It is because the legislation nec- imperfect legislation of this character. we should be providing a law for the essary for the growing interests of the The question comes up, will it be betregulation and government of the State has been accumulating for two ter for the interests of the people, for State for many years to come. With years, and then it is rushed in here the development and growth of the our State growing rapidly as it has upon the Legislature when it meets, State, to be compelled to bear the burdone, and just entering now upon the and goes through the committees and den of the error for another year? period of a grand development of its the two houses somewhat in bulk as it Can any man hesitate a moment in an natural resources, they thought that in came in, without being refined down answer to that question? If the Legno way could we so completely secure by careful examination, without being islature of the last winter, in getting the development of those resources, sufficiently scrutinized, without being up a scheme to promote and develop and the proper guidance of the State so trimmed and prepared as to express one of the great interests of the State, in this formation period of its history, the real wants of the people and by accident, oversight, or want of as by having the Legislature assemble nothing more. experience, left out some important once a year. So far as my acquaint- Every man who has looked through matter in the scheme, and there is ance goes I am satisfied that the sound the session laws of this State, that have found to be difficulty in applying the thinking men of the State, or the been issued after each session of the scheme in practical operation, is it for majority of them, are in favor of this Legislature for many years past, must the interests of the State that we change. Of course I cannot say any- have seen with astonishment the evi- should wait until a year from next thing myself for constituencies repre- dences of great haste; yes, sir, of the winter before the change can be made? sented by other gentlemen on this indecent haste that has stamped itself floor. upon the pages of those session laws. If it be true, then, that the people What sort of a story does that tell to a of the State desire this change; or if thinking man outside of the Legislathe leading business men of the State, ture? It is either that the men who Look, if you will, at the way we the men who handle and control its did the work were not competent to do transact our business in this State, in material resources, are really in favor it well, or if competent had not time to counties, townships and cities. I do of this change, then it should be made. do it well. I have nothing to say in not know but what those gentleman That class of men are the men who regard to the capacity of the gentlemen who are so much opposed to annual make a State great, who bring out its who have represented the different sessions of the Legislature, really iron, its copper and its salt; who lay parts of the State in the Legislature. entertain the opinion that our great lines of railway, and do every- They are perhaps on an average equal boards of supervisors for counties thing else that makes a State great and to our best business men. We must and townships, and our city councils, prosperous. then fall back on the other reason; are such a superior body of men In the next place, we want to con- that they had not sufficient time in that they can be trusted to assemsider whether there is a sufficient quan- which to do their work properly. ble once a year, while we cannot trust tity of work of a legislative character Then we should give them more time the Legislature to assemble oftener to be done to require the meeting of in which to do their legislative work. than once in two years. Our boards of the Legislature oftener than once in I think the clear result is that they will supervisors are required to meet totwo years. I think we can obtain an have more time, and the practical ques-gether at least once a year, perhaps twice Will it not be clearly for the interests of the State that this very coming winter the defect in the law should be remedied? a year, to look after the interests of the Legislature. And you will not see The gentleman's answer must be, betheir counties. Why is it? Are the then, as has been seen upon this very cause there is business to do. And my interests of this great State, extending floor, bulky bills introduced, tied up answer to the gentleman's question is, as they do north, south, east and west, with red tape, referred to committees because there is business to be done; with nearly a million of population, to and reported back to the House and it is the same business that is now done be handled so much more readily and passed, without the string being even biennially. These are the reasons easily than the mere local interests of untied. The reason such things take which influence my mind to support a county or township? If bodies hav-place is because of the hurry members this amendment. "The Legislature shall meet at the seat of government on the second Wednesday of January, in the year eighteen hundred and sixty-nine, and on the second Wednesday of January in every year thereafter," etc. The amendment was agreed to, upon a division, ayes 31, noes 30. Mr. P. D. WARNER. I would inquire how the Chair voted upon this question? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair did not vote. Mr. P. D. WARNER. If the Chair had voted it might have changed the result. Or ing a less interest in proportion should are in; they are in haste to get their The question recurred upon the meet at more remote periods, then if work done, that work which has in- amendment of Mr. COOLIDGE, to the Legislature of this State should creased so greatly within the two strike out the word "second," before meet but once in two years, the boards years. I submit that if they should the word "year," so that the section of supervisors of counties should meet be brought together annually there would read as follows: but once in twenty years, and in town- would not be anything of this kind, ships but once in one hundred and because they would have more time to sixty or two hundred years. But gen- devote to their labor. tlemen who are friendly to expediting One gentleman has referred us to the business of these local communities the remedy contained in one of the will claim that it is necessary that they provisions of the Constitution which should meet as often as they do. Then authorizes the Governor to call special why does not the same necessity rest sessions of the Legislature. If you upon the people of the State to get examine that provision you will see their Legislature together once a year, that there is a difficulty about the to look after these interests, as much remedy, because, in the first place, the so as it is for counties and towns to Governor would not call the Legislaget their representative bodies to- ture together unless upon some very gether? great emergency, such as was produced One gentleman has stated that the by the war we have just gone through, Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. great difficulty in connection with our or something of very great magnitude increased the majority. legislation, is the constant change that which would justify him in assuming Mr. BILLS. I move to further is made in it. I would ask that gen- the responsibility of calling a special amend this section by striking out the tleman how it came to pass that there session of the Legislature; and in the word "second," where it occurs before is such constant change in our laws? next place, when the Legislature is the word "Wednesday," and inserting Sir, it is because of the imperfections thus called together in special session, in lieu thereof the word "first," so as of those laws as made. And whatever it is hampered with restrictions which to require the Legislature to meet on will tend to lessen the chances of such in my opinion are derogatory to the the first Wednesday in January. imperfections, will tend also to lessen character of a legislative body. They Mr. P. D. WARNER. I desire to the necessity for change. If you get are only to legislate upon such subjects state briefly my opposition to this together a body of men but once in as are mentioned in the proclamation amendment. The first of January is two years, and they are required to of the Governor, or as are submitted classed in this country among the holihurry their business through in a crude to them by the Governor. days; it is one of those days which and undigested state, the result neces- I do not want to occupy a great deal even members of the Legislature are sarily is, that the next Legislature must of time in regard to this matter; but I often desirous of spending with their take it up and tinker it, and they do so have felt from the beginning that this families at home. By requiring the in the very same haste that character- was one of the changes which this Legislature to meet on the first Wedized the action of the Legislature in Convention ought to make in our Con-nesday in January, the time required the first place. And probably the third stitution. I do not see that it is going by the Constitution of 1850, the first Legislature will be required to do the to increase the expense to any very day of the meeting of the Legislature, same thing, and so on. great extent, except perhaps in regard will sometimes occur on the first day It seems to me to be beyond all to the mileage of members; because, of January, which occasionally makes question that if the Legislature meets as I said before, it will require about it very inconvenient for members of annually it will have less work pressing the same length of time to do the work the Legislature. That I think is the upon it, and will have to attend only to well, whether the session is held once reason why the committee on the such interests and necessities as require in two years or every year. But it will legislative department proposed the their action during one year instead of give an opportunity for the more speedy change in that respect contained in during two. Even if they take the correction of evils and imperfections this section. I hope for this reason same amount of time, they can devote in the laws. I think it will gratify a that the amendment will not be more thought and labor to the business majority of the business men of the adopted. before them, and perform their work State who have instructed some of us Mr. BILLS. My reason for making far better. In this way cautious men in regard to the matter. this motion is simply this; we have alwill have time to scrutinize every My friend from Kalamazoo, (Mr. ready provided in another article, that proposition brought into the Leg- BRADLEY,) asks how it is that annual the annual meetings in townships shall islature, and see whether it conflicts sessions are required? We cannot, be held in March instead of April, as with the Constitution or any pro- perhaps, go into all the details, and heretofore. It is desirable that the vision of the common law, or show all the particular classes of busi- Legislature should finish its session whether it is adapted to the interests ness which would be immediately annually before the time for the anof the people or not. And in that way benefited by annual sessions. But nual township meetings. Heretofore, many measures which are brought in being a Yankee, I would answer his the Legislature has met, if I remember in high feather will be rejected by the question by asking another. How is it correctly, on the first Tuesday of Jancalm, cool action of the members of that biennial sessions are required? uary. Mr. CROSWELL. The first Wednesday. rum present or not. If the fact of there nical. I raise it because there are so being a quorum or not is questioned, many votes taken here in which a quoMr. BILLS. I am corrected; they then the proper way is for the Chair- rum do not vote. It is the right of each met on the first Wednesday of Janu- man to direct a count to be made. The side of the question, affirmative or negary. This section as it now stands committee can take no action, can ative, to have the vote of every memprovides that the Legislature shall order no call to be made; they can only ber present. It is true that the pracmeet on the second Wednesday of rise and report the fact to the Conven- tice has grown up under a sort of acJanuary, thereby losing one week of tion. I venture to say that the point commodating disposition on the part that month. It seems to me that we of order raised by the gentleman was of the presiding officer, in cases of this should not lose that week at the com- never raised in any parliamentary body kind, to pass over the fact that there mencement of the term. It is a ques- in the world; that is, the point that is no quorum, which is well enough tion in my mind whether it would not because a quorum did not vote on any perhaps at times. But upon all imbe better to have the sessions of our question, therefore all proceedings portant questions, the votes of all the Legislature commence even earlier than must be stopped. members present should be given; and the first day of January. this is the only way by which they can be obtained; especially where less than a quorum vote upon any question, to treat it as coming within the rule forbidding business to be done without a quorum. The Chair should notify the body over which he presides, that a quorum has not voted. Then it should be ascertained whether a quorum is present or not, either by a new count or by tellers, or by the call of the roll. The question was taken upon the amendment of Mr. BILLS, and upon a division there were ayes 13, noes 24, no quorum voting. The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the gentleman from Lenawee, (Mr. BILLS,) is lost. Mr. LONGYEAR. When the gentleman gets through I will read him the law on that subject. Mr. CONGER. If it were so, then all legislation, except when by yeas and nays, which are required to be recorded in a legislative body, would be stopped, whenever upon any question there was not interest enough taken by members to lead them to vote one side or the other in sufficient numbers to make a quorum. Mr. LONGYEAR. As it will appear in the record of our debates, that no quorum voted on the vote just taken, I raise the point of order, that no furMr. MUSSEY. I raised this same ther business shall be done in commit- Mr. LONGYEAR. It is true that in question in the early part of the delibtee until a quorum shall appear. I the House of Representatives in Con- erations of this Convention. I am surunderstand the rule to be that when-gress, when a vote is taken viva voce, it prised that the gentleman from St. ever it shall appear by any count, or is not a matter of any importance Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) should say that vote, or otherwise, that there is no whether more or less vote, because he never heard it raised. I think the quorum voting in committee of the there is no count in such cases. But whole, no further business can be done until an actual count shall show a quorum; and also that no question can be decided one way or the other unless a quorum shall vote. I think that in this case it is the duty of the Chair to announce that no quorum voted on the last vote, in order that the committee may take such action as they may see fit. Mr. CONGER. In regard to the point of order raised by the gentleman from Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR,) I must say that it is entirely new to me. I have never had the honor of being a member of such high legislative bodies as the gentleman has. There may be such a rule in the House of Representatives at Washington. Still, I have, while sitting in the galleries of that House, repeatedly known questions to be decided when there would be but four or five, or eight or ten, voting in the affirmative, and none in the negative; still, the motion was declared to be carried. Mr. LONGYEAR. Never, upon a count. Mr. CONGER. When it appears that there is no quorum present by any legitimate mode of ascertaining the fact, then the business of the body, whether in committee of the whole or not, must cease. But, it is apparent to us here, by more senses than one, that a quorum is now present. The mere fact of members voting or not voting is no way of testing whether there is a quo question has been before this Convention several times, and it has been ruled that the point of order was well taken. always when there is a division of the The general parliamentary rule I understand to be this: I read from Barclay's Digest, quoting as he does from Hatsfield: "In general, the Chair is not to be taken till a quorum for business is present; unless after due waiting, such a quorum be despaired of, when the Chair may be taken and the House adjourned. And whenever, during business, it is observed that a quorum is not sent, any member may call for the House to be counted, and having found a deficit, business is suspended." It is always considered in the House of Representatives as evidence that there is no quorum, when a quorum does not vote upon a count. I do not raise this question here for the purpose of being captious or merely to be tech is a division, and it is questionable whether there is a quorum present, the Chair can order a count. I have also said that myself. But I said that I never heard that the mere fact that a quorum did not vote, was considered an indication of itself that there was not a quorum present, and that, therefore, the vote should not stand as a vote of the committee of the whole, or of the Convention, as the case may be. The gentleman did not read any authority at all on that point. Mr. LONGYEAR. If the gentleman will allow me, I will state what the fact is, if he can take my statement. I state as the fact, that the question is always raised, in such cases as that, by the presiding officer of the House of Representatives. He never declares the question, if there is no quorum voting upon a division, no matter how many members may be present. If no quorum vote, the presiding officer states the fact that no quorum has voted. Mr. PRATT. I would inquire of the gentleman how he is to carry out |