Senator THOMAS. Mr. Harding, I do not expect any exact figures. Mr. HARDING. Well, rough estimates. That is all I have gone into. Senator THOMAS. I do expect some substantial estimate of the expense of this new system.

Senator BRADY. I think it would result beneficially if you would go into that very question.

Mr. HARDING. I shall be glad to do so.

Senator BRADY. The question of the cost or rather probable cost and the method of handling the whole military force financially. As Senator Thomas says, that is an expense that we will have to consider. The CHAIRMAN. Have you taken into consideration, Mr. Harding, the question as to the possibility of maintaining a smaller standing army for continental or other purposes, where there was a partially trained civilian force created as a reserve?

Mr. HARDING. A smaller standing army than we have under the Hay bill?

The CHAIRMAN. Under any system. Would it not be possible to reduce the standing army if we had, say, a reserve that we could call upon in time of emergency?

Mr. HARDING. Yes; I should think it would, but how far would be a question for military experts.

The CHAIRMAN. You did not figure on that?

Mr. HARDING. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You were speaking of the draft a while ago. Some objection has been made to universal military training, or military service, if you please, that it is in the nature of conscription; many people call it conscripting the young men of the country for the purpose of military training. Did you ever examine the act of 1792? Mr. HARDING. I have examined it generally; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That was in the nature of compulsory militia service?

Mr. HARDING. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And it remained in effect, I believe, until its repeal in 1903. Now some additional objection has been made to compelling young men to serve either in training or in the service. Have you given that any consideration?

Mr. HARDING. That constitutional objection, I think, was raised particularly in 1862, after the conscription act of that year was passed. The CHAIRMAN. You mean the act adopted by the Confederacy, or the Federal act?

Mr. HARDING. The Federal act.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you looked into that question some with. reference to this legislation?

Mr. HARDING. Yes; I have.

The CHAIRMAN. We would like to have your views with regard to that.

Mr. HARDING. At the time that act was before Congress there was considerable discussion as to the power of Congress to pass it. After the act was passed, President Lincoln wrote the governor of New York that he would do all in his power to have it brought before the United States Supreme Court for judicial determination as to its validity. The act was taken into a number of the State courts. At first there were one or two adverse decisions rendered; in other words, the act was held unconstitutional, I think, in Pennsylvania,

for instance. Those decisions are spoken of in Nicolay and Hay's life of Lincoln as being political decisions. They were subsequently reversed and the highest court in Pennsylvania upheld the constitutionality of the act, and the highest court in Connecticut, where the case came up with reference to the conscription of a boy of 18, a minor, upheld the constitutionality of the act. The case never got into the higher Federal courts. I have been able to find decisions by the lower Federal courts upon the subject. It was not directly passed on by the Supreme Court of the United States. President Lincoln, anticipating a great deal of opposition, prepared a memorandum which he was going to issue to the people. That memorandum was never issued because the opposition faded away. It was published in an English paper about two years ago, and I will be glad to look it up and let you have it, if you so desire.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how authentic that is?

Mr. HARDING. No; but it is easily traced back. One of the expressions Mr. Lincoln used in that was, "You can not have an army without men. You can only get a man in two ways, voluntarily or involuntarily." He also stated-I use Mr. Lincoln's words:

The principle of draft, which simply is involuntary or enforced service, is not new. It has been the practice in all ages of the world. It was well known to the framers of our Constitution as one of the means of raising armies at the time they placed in that instrument the provision that Congress shall have the power to raise and support

armies.

The principle of draft was also used at the time of the War of 1812. I do not know whether any one has brought to your attention the statement in the Bible with reference to compulsory military training. You will recall in the first chapter of the Book of Numbers there occurs the following:

1. And the Lord spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying:

2. Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls.

3. From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel; thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

Then the Bible goes on and sets down the number of each tribe and gives the total number as 603,550.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the act of 1792 must have been framed on that Scriptural injunction.

Senator THOMAS. The Bible always reminds me of Thomas Jefferson when quoted. A man can find something in the Bible or from Thomas Jefferson in support of or against any theory on earth. They may be alike in other particulars.

My recollection of the Bible-it is a very dim one-is that after that poll was taken the Almighty punished his chosen people for taking it. He changed his mind, in other words, unless my recollection deceives me.

The CHAIRMAN. Were not the same decisions reached in reference to the draft on the part of the Southern Confederacy?

Mr. HARDING. Yes; they were. The constitution of the Southern Confederacy is in the identical words of our Constitution as far as the power of the Confederate Congress to raise and support armies goes. There is a very elaborate opinion in Virginia of some 30 or 40 pages

which considers the question from every angle and upholds in strongest terms the right of Congress to pass such an act.

The CHAIRMAN. My reason for calling attention to these decisions of the courts in reference to the draft is not that I am of the opinion that universal military training would amount to a draft, but I have had objections made to me occasionally as to universal military training on the theory that it was a draft or conscription.

Mr. HARDING. The criticism has been made that universal military training is not in accord with the ideals of our race. We have at present compulsory taxes; we have compulsory compliance

Senator THOMAS. If they were not compulsory we would not

collect them.

Mr. HARDING. We have compulsory compliance with the health laws, and we have compulsory education, and also compulsory jury

service.

The CHAIRMAN. Every duty to the public nearly is compelled by some statute or other. Now, Mr. Harding, have you, or any of those associated with you in this hearing, or any other organizations that might have been associated with you, formulated a measure from the measures that have been pending here; have you crystallized your views, in other words, into a form of statute?

Mr. HARDING. Yes; I have. The statute is very similar to this amendment that you gentlemen have before you now, but goes more into necessary details. I will send that not on behalf of any organization but as a measure formulated by those who have worked on the matter.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you that with you?

Mr. HARDING. I have not it in revised form.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you send it down here shortly so that it may go in the record as part of your statement here?

Mr. HARDING. I can; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee is anxious to get all the help it can with reference to this subject, and if you gentlemen have been collaborating together, we would like to have the benefit of your views.

Mr. HARDING. I have spent considerable time at it with various experts, and I think the draft of a statute may be of assistance to you. I will be glad to send it to you shortly.

NOTE. The draft and memorandum referred to were submitted by Mr. Harding on January 24, 1917, and are as follows:

A PROPOSED BILL TO PROVIDE FOR UNIVERSAL MILITARY TRAINING.

[As drawn by Capt. George Van Horn Moseley of the United States Army War College and other

experts.]

GIST OF PLAN.

1. Every man at age of 19 shall be trained in camp or on a naval vessel for six months.

Exception. First year the act goes into effect, 3 months' training. (Sec. 1.)

Exemption. Members of Regular Army and Navy; those physically unfit, and those supporting dependents. (Sec. 3.)

2. Credits to be allowed for approved courses of instruction. (Sec. 6.)

3. No substitute (personal or money) will be accepted. (Secs. 8 and 24.)

4. Certificates of training to be issued. (Sec. 9.)

5. Division of United States into districts, each to have at least one place of training. (Sec. 13.)

6. Preference of those to be trained as to kind of training and time of year for training to be considered as far as practicable. (Sec. 15.)

7. Those trained compose, until they reach age of 28, Reserve Citizen Army and Reserve Citizen Navy, and are subject to call in case of defensive war or imminent danger thereof, but not for strike duty. (Secs. 20 and 22.)

8. Officers to consist of Regular Army and Navy officers, detailed for the purpose, and trained volunteers. Examination to be held for appointment and promotion of volunteer officers. (Secs. 26, 27, and 28.)

9. No liquor or tobacco to be sold in training camp or on board ship. (Sec. 39.)

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in Congress asssembled, That every male person (a) who is a citizen of the United States or (b) who has made a declaration of intention to become a citizen of the United States shall, except as provided herein, undergo military or naval training as prescribed by the President for a period of six months during the calendar year in which he reaches the age of nineteen years, or, if not within the description of either (a) or (b) of this section, in the calendar year in which he first comes within such description or in the year immediately following. No person shall be subject to such training after the year in which he attains the age of twenty-six years, except as otherwise provided in section two, nor for more than one period of such training. During the first calendar year in which there is training under this act, the period of training shall be three months. SEC. 2. Continued liability to train.-That if any person liable to training does not train in any year in which he is subject thereto, he shall, in addition to the penalties prescribed by law, undergo training in the next succeeding year up to the calendar year in which he reaches the age of twenty-six years, and avoiding training in any year shall constitute a separate offense.

SEC. 3. Exemptions.-That there shall be exempted from training (a) members of the permanent military or naval forces of the United States; and (b) persons physically unfit for any military or naval service whatever; and (c) persons on whose earnings a father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or child is wholly dependent for support. Every person exempted under (b) and (c) of this section shall be required to report for reexamination at periods fixed by regulation, up to and including the year in which he attains the age of twenty-five years, and if on any such reexamination it is determined that the cause of exemption no longer exists, he shall undergo training in the next training period.

SEC. 4. Training of members of certain religious sects. That members of any religious sect or organization now organized and existing whose creed forbids its members to bear arms in war shall not be required to undergo training in the bearing or use of arms, but shall be trained in the noncombatant branches of the military or or naval service.

SEC. 5. Criminals and persons of bad character.-That a person who has been convicted of a felony, or who is of notoriously bad character, shall undergo training only in a special unit or units.

SEC. 6. Credits for military instruction. That any person who has completed a course of instruction approved for this purpose by the Secretary of War or by the Secretary of the Navy, shall be allowed a credit which shall consist of the deduction from the training period of not more than one month for each year in which he has completed such course to the satisfaction of the Secretary of War or of the Secretary of the Navy, except that the period of actual training undergone as a member of the Citizen Reserve Army or Citizen Reserve Navy shall never be reduced to less than three months by such credits.

SEC. 7. Expenses. That persons undergoing training shall receive transportation and subsistence while going to and returning from the place of training, and subsistence, clothing, and medical attendance while undergoing training.

SEC. 8. Training strictly personal. That no substitute shall be accepted in place of any person called for training under the provisions of this act, and no such person shall be permitted to escape training or be discharged therefrom by the payment of money or any other thing of value.

SEC. 9. Issuance of certificate and rosette.—That each person exempted from training shall receive a certificate of exemption, and each person who has completed his training shall receive a certificate of training and a distinctive rosette showing the year's class to which the wearer belongs. Whenever a certificate or rosette issued under the provisions of this section is lost, destroyed, or rendered unfit for use, without fault or neglect upon the part of the person to whom it is issued, a new certificate

or rosette shall be issued to such person without charge therefor. No person shall wear a rosette to which he is not entitled, and no person shall use a certificate to which he is not entitled.

SEC. 10. Naturalization.-That no person liable to be trained under this act shall be naturalized as a citizen of the United States unless he has a certificate of training or an unexpired certificate of temporary exemption or a certificate of permanent exemption from training or is undergoing training.

SEC. 11. Persons without certificate ineligible to certain employments.-That no person liable to be trained under this act shall hold any position of trust or profit created or authorized by the Congress of the United States unless he has a certificate of training or an unexpired certificate of temporary exemption or a certificate of permanent exemption from training.

SEC. 12. Employment of person without certificate prohibited. That no person, corporation, partnership, or association shall hire, engage, employ, or continue to employ, any person up to the age of twenty-eight years who is or has been liable to be trained under this act, unless he has a certificate of training or an unexpired certificate of temporary exemption or a certificate of permanent exemption from training.

SEC. 13. Training districts.—That for the purposes of this act the Secretary of War shall, subject to the approval of the President, divide the territory of the United States into such training districts as may be convenient, and shall establish for training purposes in each such district one or more cantonments. As far as practicable such division shall include a single State or group of States.

SEC. 14. Registration and examination. That every person liable to undergo training shall register himself or be registered by a parent or guardian, and shall submit to examination as to physical fitness at a place and time fixed by the Secretary of War, except that the President may designate any consular office of the United States as a place of registration and examination for persons resident without the territory of the United States.

SEC. 15. Naval training; expression of preference as to kind and time of training.— That the President may require such portion as he deems advisable of the entire number of persons undergoing training in any year to undergo naval training. Every person may at the time of registration express his preference for training (a) in the Army or the Navy, or (b) in any arm or corps of either service, or (c) in any time of the year. As far as practicable, any preference so expressed shall be considered in assigning persons to training.

SEC. 16. Registration districts.-That for the purposes of this act the Secretary of War shall, subject to the approval of the President, provide in each training district such number of registration districts as may be convenient.

SEC. 17. Board of medical examiners.-That the President shall appoint a board of medical examiners in each registration district. The board shall consist of three medical examiners, who shall be medical officers of the Regular Army or Navy, the Medical Reserve Corps, or the Public Health Service, or physicians or surgeons legally authorized to practice within the district. Such physicians and surgeons who are not regularly in the service of the United States shall be paid according to the rate of pay of medical officers of the rank of first lieutenant. The board shall examine all persons appearing for registration as to physical fitness, and its decision shall be final. SEC. 18. Board of registration. That the President shall appoint a board of registration in each registration district. The board shall consist of three members to be appointed from officers and employees of the United States. The board shall convene at times fixed by the Secretary of War at one or more convenient places within the district, and shall hear and determine (a) applications for exemptions, except for physical unfitness, and (b) applications for training as a noncombatant. The board or any member thereof shall have power to administer oaths, and shall have the same power as a district court of the United States in civil cases to issue subpoenas for the attendance and testimony of witnesses and the production of documentary evidence and to order the taking of depositions. Any such district court having jurisdiction of the parties shall enforce obedience to the subpoenas of the board, and shall issue and enforce obedience to subpoenas for the taking of depositions. Witnesses shall be entitled to the same fees and mileage as witnesses in such district courts.

SEC. 19. Appeals. That an appeal from a decision of the board of registration may be made within thirty days to the district court of the United States for the district in which the applicant resides or in which the board was sitting at the time of hearing, or to the Court of the First Instance of the Philippine Islands if the applicant resides in the Philippine Islands, or to the District Court of Porto Rico if the applicant resides in Porto Rico, or to the District Court of the Canal Zone. The decision of such court shall be final. The applicant shall not be required to undergo training while his appeal is pending, but if his application is denied, he shall undergo training