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the various people who participated in some of the meetings at various gun shops were.

As I say, the indictment is attached to my statement. And I think that summarizes the gist of what the offense is.

Mr. HUBBARD. The indictment alleges that the five defendants, including James Howell and Jose Antonio Alvarez, commenced purchases of firearms on August 8, 1978, and engaged in 20 separate transactions until January 29, 1979, in violation of section 371 of title XVIII United States Code.

Is that not correct?

Mr. Davis. It does start with transactions on August 8 and continues to the date you described. I am not clear that it is precisely 20 transactions, because some of the listed 20 items may overlap and relate to different stops relating to the same transaction.

Mr. HUBBARD. Mr. Davis, are you familiar with the affidavit filed in Miami Federal court by special agent Donald R. Kimbler of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, on April 27, 1979?

Mr. Davis. Yes, sir, I am.

Mr. HUBBARD. And can you share your knowledge of that with us?

Mr. Davis. That affidavit was prepared in support of an arrest warrant which was issued for Mr. Pujol. It describes a series of transactions involving Pujol, Mr Edgardo Lopez, the Panamanian Consul in Miami, and-

Mr. HUBBARD. Let's stop at that point.
You are referring to who now? Mr. Lopez?

Mr. Davis. That is right. The affidavit refers to a Mr. Edgardo Lopez.

Mr. HUBBARD. How do you spell his first name?

Mr. Davis. E-d-g-a-r-d-o. And he is identified in the affidavit as being the Panamanian Consul in Miami.

Mr. HUBBARD. The Panamian Consul in Miami?

Mr. DAVIS. According to the evidence, he was, at the time of these events.

Mr. HUBBARD. This was filed in Miami Federal court by special agent Donald R. Kimbler, U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

Mr. Davis. That is correct.
Mr. HUBBARD. It was filed April 27?
Mr. Davis. That is correct.

Mr. HUBBARD. According to the Kimbler affidavit, Jose Pujol returned to the Garcia National Gun Shop with one, Edgardo Lopez, the Panamanian Consul in Miami.

In addition, the affidavit states, and I quote-do I quote correctly?-"Lopez signed ATF Forms 4473 for the weapons Pujol had ordered earlier. Pujol later returned and received the weapons he had ordered.”

Is that correct?
Mr. Davis. That is correct.

Mr. HUBBARD. The affidavit also describes joint visits by Consul Lopez and Alvarez on November 7 and 9, 1978. Is that correct?

Mr. Davis. Yes. On November 8, 1978, Mr. Lopez again entered the Garcia National Gun Shop.

Mr. HUBBARD. According to the same Kimbler affidavit, agent Kimbler further indicated, and I quote:

Lopez stated to me that he has been involved in at least 7 firearms transactions with Pujol and Alvarez, which involved the purchase of over 200 firearms to be exported from the United States. Lopez said he had received such instructions from an official of the Panamanian G2, an intelligence agency for the Republic of Panama.

Did I quote this correctly?
Mr. Davis. You did quote the affidavit correctly.

Mr. HUBBARD. The subcommittee's investigative staff has been told that ATF special agent John Spiedell visited the Panamanian Consulate and interviewed Lopez, and it has been suggested to the staff that Lopez admitted to agent Spiedell that he had been active in an official capacity as an agent of the Panamanian Government when he carried out the weapons transactions described by agent Kimbler.

Would you please outline for the subcommittee the SpiedellLopez interview

Mr. Davis. Because there is a pending trial here, I would really not be in a position to describe that interview, since that is not part of the public record.

I would refer again, however, as you previously quoted, that in the affidavit of Donald Kimbler, who works for special agent Spiedell and I believe was with special agent Spiedell, filed in Miami, he did make the statement you previously quoted.

Mr. HUBBARD. I quoted it correctly, and there was indeed an interview between Spiedell and Lopez?

Mr. Davis. That is correct.
Mr. HUBBARD. Where is Mr. Lopez now, Edgardo Lopez?
Mr. Davis. We do not know.
Mr. HUBBARD. He has disappeared?

Mr. Davis. I presume that he went back to Panama. He is a Panamanian citizen, and we presume he is in Panama.

Mr. HUBBARD. According to a May 28 story from the Miami Herald, written by Joe Crankshaw and Sam Jacobs:

Kimbler and Spiedell, an ATF supervisor, marched into the Panamanian consul. ate in Miami. They wanted to know what was up. They had lots of records.

Lopez, the consul, admitted he knew of about seven shipments. He said he had received instructions from an “official of the Panamanian G-2", the agency supervises spies, security police, and military intelligence.

Lopez does not live in Miami anymore. He left in a hurry the day after the interview.

The G-2 official, it turned out was Colonel Noriega. It is easy to tell that he is in the spy business. The insignia on his stationary is a pair of binoculars.

Is that substantially correct?

Mr. Davis. Again, all that we can really say, is that, Mr. Lopez is quoted as having said that he received instructions from officials of Panamanian G-2, the intelligence agency of the Republic of Panama.

I don't think we can go beyond that, especially when we are responding to newspaper articles. I don't think that can be taken as confirming or denying particular aspects of it, because I think the committee would not want us to be selective and answer things only to our advantage.

So we must necessarily assume the posture that we can respond only to the extent the item is covered by the affidavit.

Mr. HUBBARD. You have not seen the particular May 28 story that I quoted from the Miami Herald?

Mr. Davis. I have seen that story.
Mr. HUBBARD. I was quoting from it directly.

And going ahead, one of the defendants in the case, Carlos Wittgreen, has been alleged to be an employee of the Panamanian G-2, working directly for Colonel Noriega. Wittgreen was arrested in Miami on February 22, 1979, while attempting to leave the airport with illegally purchased weapons.

Allegedly, Wittgreen was taken into custody by U.S. Customs agents, but later released. Is that correct?

Mr. Davis. There are a lot of pieces to that question. There are a lot of pieces to that story.

The indictment does charge Mr. Wittgreen. I am not in a position to describe anything further about Mr. Wittgreen other than saying in the open session that he is a Panamanian.

În regard to whether there was an arrest, I do not know precisely about the date. At one point some people were detained while the U.S. Attorney was consulted, and then they were released.

I don't believe that was the correct date. I don't have the precise date.

Mr. HUBBARD. Do you know why Wittgreen was released?

Mr. Davis. Again, trying to be careful in regard to what can be said, by the agents, I understand that based on conversation with the U.S. Attorney relating to the nature of the evidence, and the inability, based upon the evidence then available, to do anything, he was released.

Mr. HUBBARD. Do you have any information as to whether Edgardo Lopez, Carlos Wittgreen, or Antonio Alvarez, were ever in the employ of the Panamanian National Guard or the Panamanian Government?

Mr. Davis. Well, as previously said, Mr. Lopez is identified formally in the affidavit as being Consul General at the time of the transactions referred to, beyond that, I really cannot go.

Mr. HUBBARD. Two more questions.

Has ATF come to any conclusions regarding the company known as Caza y Pesca, S.A.; namely, does this firm have a bonafide business purpose, or is it an entity used for the transportation of arms under the control of the Government of Panama?

Mr. Davis. The indictment alleges in overt act 20 in the first count of the indictment, that Caza y Pesca is the company of Carlos Wittgreen. Beyond that, again I cannot go, for reasons I previously described.

Mr. HUBBARD. Last, would you please provide the subcommittee with a complete inventory of weapons licensed by the U.S. Government for export to Caza y Pesca, S.A.?

Mr. Davis. We will be working with the State Department trying to comply with that request. They are the originators of such licenses, and we will work with them on your request.

Mr. HUBBARD. You will try to provide that for the record later? Mr. Davis. Yes. [The information follows:

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