quarter, so far as I am aware, for this limits, are sufficiently large to 'consti- benefit of all parts of the State, and Mr. D. GOODWIN. I can see no reason for making the proposed change in the provision existing in the present Constitution. That provision has not been found to operate injuriously, nor cities. That class of the population is am I aware that there has been any congregated together, not spread all complaint at any time in regard to it. over it, but congregated in particular In reference to the city in which I reportions of the city. I can see that side, I know that it has operated well In making up our representation we great benefit is going to result to our and satisfactorily. I am sure that the divide the State into districts, small in cities by the adoption of the section reremarks made by my colleague, (Mr. size, in order, first, to have a unit of ported by the committee, and by the MCCLELLAND,) would be found true, representation; secondly, and that is rejection of the amendment offered that the people there would be very of far greater importance, to have a by the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. much dissatisfied with such a change full representation in the Legislature, MCCLELLAND.) It would emancipate as is proposed. There has never been of the various shades of opinion portions of our cities from the control any dissatisfaction with the provision throughout the State. Let it be borne of that class to which I have alluded. as it now exists; on the contrary, it in mind that this representation is a The representation of the city of Dehas been gratifying to the people there, representation of the people, not of troit is, and always has been of a high to elect all the representatives from property, not of cities, not of counties, character in the Legislature, as it is that city on one ticket. I apprehend not of townships. I am in favor of upon this floor. I am certain, however, the same feeling may exist in other the section as it stands, because it is that the change proposed by the comcities, when they become large enough based upon the principle of the repre-mittee will not affect injuriously the to be entitled to two or more representation of the people. I am in favor character of that representation, but of it, also, because it applies to our will strengthen and add to the ability sentatives. In reference to the division of coun- cities the very same rule that we apply and worth of that representation. ties into separate representative dis- to the country portions of the State. Without taking up the time of the tricts, I apprehend the same rule As the chairman of the committee has committee further, I will say that I am would not apply, that should be ap- suggested, I do not know any reason in favor of the section as it stands. plied to cities. The great object of in the world why, in making up our Mr. LOTHROP. I do not know the division of counties, as I under-representation in the Legislature we whether any city in this State other stand it, is that the electors may be more should apply a different rule to the than Detroit is now directly interested directly acquainted with the character population of the country, because it in this question. However, but a few and qualifications of the person who is the people who are to be represented years can elapse before they will be. might be presented for their suffrages. in the Legislature. In consequence of the district being Take the case of the city of Detroit. smaller than the entire county, they There is no doubt in my mind that would be able to vote more intelligently, there are various shades of opinion and thereby make a better selection for existing in that large and growing city. their representation in the State Leg-There is no doubt in my mind that the islature. In regard to a city, where the controlling political influences of that population is more compact, and where city do not represent the controlling almost every man is acquainted with at opinions in several portions of the city. least every prominent man before the Now, if these portions of that city, public, the same rule would not apply. whose opinions are overborne by the And then we have no call from any mass of opinion within its corporate I really hope that this Convention will not follow the lead of my friend from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) and put us under their generous guardianship. The gentleman is going to redeem us from ourselves. Now, we have had something of this kind already done by the Legislature. We have been redeemed by inquisitorial boards, and all that sort of thing; and it is what we do not care so much to have. Now, as to this matter of representa tion, I desire to remind gentlemen of this Convention that the rule proposed in the amendment of my colleague, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) is the rule that has prevailed with us for seventeen years, and if there is the first objection to be made to it from any quarter, I have yet to hear of it. We have had no petition of any kind upon the subject from that city. I go further, and say that I have never heard a suggestion from any one in opposition to this rule there. Now, it happens, at this very moment, that the city of Detroit is represented in the Legislature of this State by gentlemen of one political complexion; and in this Convention it is represented by gentlemen of another political complexion; yet I have never heard the first objection to this rule by either Republican or Democrat. character on the whole, will be sent to interesting to them, because they had Suppose that you divide the city of Detroit into single representative districts; those districts have no existence except for that particular purpose. But the city of Detroit stands as it is, one representative for a particular municipal purpose. What is a representative district in a city? It has no other existence except for the election of a representative. But there is a unity of interest in a city which has been represented by men who receive the suffrages of all the people of that city. And a system which will permit that to be done is no invasion of the principle of popular elections. This present Constitution divided the city of Detroit into senatorial districts; a division no more practicable than a division into representative districts. For seventeen years the city of Detroit has been divided into senatorial districts. There have been subdivisions there for that purpose, which have no other name or place in the city, except for senatorial purposes. In order to carry out the principle advocated by those who favor the amendment of the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) this article should also be amended so as to provide that the Senators to which that city is entitled, should be elected by general ticket. There is a unity of interest in a municipal body like a city, which does Mr. CONGER. I am free to say not prevail in a larger district like a that, in my view of this section, the county. That unity of interest is best question of mere temporary politics represented by bodies of men who rep- would not control at all, as has been I will state, in addition to what I resent it entirely. But cut it up in the very well remarked by the gentleman said when up before, that there is way of representation, and have one from Wayne, (Mr. LOTHROP.) That is another reason why, in my opinion, the representative from ward one, and a a changing question; one party might amendment of the gentleman from different representative from ward five, control at one time, and another party Wayne should not be adopted. Aland you lose much of that unity of at another time. So far as that is con- though there might not be other cities representation and unity of interest. concerned I think it is a consideration which would be entitled to so many You cannot divide the city by wards which should not enter into our calcu- representatives as the city of Detroit, into districts; it would be found im- lation at all of what is best to be done perhaps no city entitled to more than practicable, unless there was a vast in this subject; nor did it, I think, one, yet it might be desirable in the diversity in the population. You must enter into the minds of the com- division of counties for senatorial purcarve out arbitrary districts without mittee at all. The simple ques- poses, that a portion of a city should regard to the division into wards. And tion with the committee was, as be set off with a part of the county for these must be carved over and over far as I understood the views one district, and another portion with again, because year by year the popu- of the majority, that if the single dis- another part of the county for another lation of the wards fluctuates. There trict system was better for the State district. That might very well occur are some wards that give a vote of but than the general ticket system, then it in such counties and cities as Jackson; four or five hundred, while there are was well to apply the single district also with the county of Kent, where it those that give a vote of fifteen hun- system to the whole State alike. It might be convenient to have the city of dred or two thousand; there are some has been the custom in some States to Grand Rapids so divided. Yet the wards containing five or six times the elect the whole Legislature by general amendment of the gentleman from territory contained in other wards. ticket. I venture to say that no gen- Wayne would prevent a division of This is a matter that somewhat con- tleman in this Convention would advo- cities for such a purpose, however concerns us in Detroit. The Constitution cate that system for the State of Michi- venient it might be, but require the we now have provides a method of gan. I venture to say that any Con- county to be so divided as to include representation, and that method we stitution that had such a provision in all of the city in one district. I do not desire shall not be changed. Why it would be condemned by the univer-speak for the committee in this reshould it be? We have hereto- sal voice of the people. The reason fore proceeded on the sound principle, is that the people desire, so far as that when we find a provision of the Constitution working well, we would not undertake to change it, but would retain it in the Constitution we are now framing. If this present practice It is said that, since the old Constiworks well with us, and we are content tution went into effect, the city of Dewith it, and it is the best system, (at troit has elected its representation by Mr. D. GOODWIN. I have the least, we think so,) then why not leave general ticket. That is true. And it honor to be a member of the commitit with us? I say here deliberately is also true that there has been com- tee on the legislative department. that, whether the city of Detroit is to plaint about it; that there has been in- There was considerable discussion in be represented by men of my political conveniences resulting from it in the that committee upon the change here complexion, or by men of another po- Legislature of this State, as is well proposed, and I there opposed the litical complexion, I prefer it shall be known to those who have been here. change. I did not see then, and I do represented by gentlemen chosen on a Other gentlemen from other portions of not see now, that the reasons urged general ticket for the city. I know the State have received communications for this change are such as should that better representatives, of higher from citizens of Detroit upon matters prevail against the prevailing sentiVol. 2-No. 2. practicable, to have the election of their spect, but I say that for myself I feel quite desirous that this section should stand as it has been reported. It has received a great deal of attention from the committee, and commends itself, at least to my judgment, as the proper principle to be placed in the Constitution. ment of the people of the city of Detroit, and against the fact that the provision now sought by my colleague (Mr. MCCLELLAND) to be incorporated in this section, has been in operation for seventeen years without any complaint being made of it. It are awarded to every other? Detroit correctly said by him, every constituent is the only city that may now be inter-knows his representative; he knows ested in this amendment. But it ap- every man who is likely to be presented pears from statements which have been as a candidate for that position; theremade here that there are other cities, fore there is no occasion in that city to at least one other city in the State, establish the principle of single districts. which in order to accommodate its In regard to the senatorial system, I So far as regards the remark of the own interests has been obliged to will say in reply to the chairman of the gentleman from Kent (Mr. FERRIS) ignore the strict and absolute require- committee, who reported this article, that the people should be represented, ments of the Constitution of 1850, and (Mr. CONGER,) that though that senaI must say that I think that principle make such an apportionment of the torial system has been applied to us, in is secured as much in the case when city and the county in which it is situ- Detroit, it has not been done with our fifty thousand people elect five repreated as would inure to their conveni- consent. But the principle upon which ence. There being, therefore, other the Senate is made up, is not the same sentatives, as it would be if each ten thousand of the fifty should elect one cities besides Detroit that are, or may as the principle upon which the House person. It is just as much a popular be interested in this question, I am of Representatives is made up. representation when the votes of the opposed to placing any restriction upon might have been better for us had our people are given for a number of reprethe other localities, by which they may Senators been elected as our RepresenBut it seemed proper to sentatives together, as in Detroit, as if be restrained in any measure whatever tatives are. they were given by different portions for from accommodating their own con- those who had control of this matter, venience in the arrangement of their to run senatorial lines through our one alone. In the city of Detroit the popcity. For what purpose? Not to bring ulation is so compact that the selection representative districts. While I am in favor of giving to the constituent and the Representative of representatives can be made by the people, with as full and accurate knowl- these other localities this privilege, I more nearly face to face, but for other edge on the part of the electors of the am not in favor of adopting such a purposes. For instance, one portion of character of the individuals whose rule as will not require the city of De- the city is embraced in a senatorial names are presented to them, as if the troit to conform to the general regula- district, which comprises also three or city were divided into smaller districts. tions adopted in reference to the entire four towns of the county. In that way And, as has been remarked, the charac-State of Michigan. I do not say this from the principle of the district system, is ter of the representatives from such any hostile feeling towards the people in fact violated, because, instead of cities is found to be as elevated, the of Detroit. I hold that this Conven- making a narrow district, the district individuals elected are found to be as tion should establish a principle which is much enlarged. The city of Detroit intelligent, and as well qualified, as if is equal and just in its operations over has in this way been carved up, and they were selected from single districts; the entire State, and in establishing such the several portions attached to three probably of a higher character than a general principle, which I believe to different senatorial districts, I believe; they would be in that case. I trust be just and equal, I claim that the in- or at any rate, to two. In no case have the amendment of my colleague will terests of no locality, not even the city we had a single entire senatorial disprevail, and that the principle estab- of Detroit, will suffer in any manner trict in the city until recently. For lished in the present Constitution, and whatever. I, therefore hope the amend- the purpose of making up senatorial districts, our cities have been carved which has been found to operate so ment will not be adopted. Mr. LOTHROP. We must be ex-up and attached to townships. That, justly, will be continued. cused for feeling a little interest about however, is not so important, because I regret this matter, because it is one in which the principle of senatorial districts is we feel a personal interest. I am not different from that which should apply permitted to run in the direction which going to discuss the single district sys-to represensative districts. it has taken. I consider that the propo- tem, for there is no controversy about So far as representatives are consition offered by the gentleman from the matter. The object of the single cerned, they should represent localiWayne, (Mr. McCLELLAND,) embodies district system, as I understand it, is ties. A representative from the city an important principle, that is directly to bring the electors and the represen- of Detroit does not speak for any paropposed to another important princi- tatives more closely together. The tiçular ward, but for the unit repreple which has received the entire ap- reason for carving up a large territory sented by, and embraced in the city probation of the people of the State into small districts is to give to the rep-organization. And when the gentleof Michigan. I desire to refer to this resentative a local character. That I man tells me that one ward of the city matter as embodying a principle, and agree is oftentimes a matter of great has an interest distinct from the internot as being a question connected with importance; otherwise the representa-est of another ward, I reply to him, the local interests of any city in the tive might be one of whom his con- that those interests are properly repreState of Michigan, or as embracing stituency would know very little or sented in our municipal legislature. any political character whatever. I do nothing. not desire to refer to it in that connection. Mr. P. D. WARNER. somewhat that this discussion has been But when those interests come into : It is important that in our branch of the Legislature of the State of Michithe Legislature the representatives gan, the city of Detroit, in the eye of I believe that the principle of repre- should be brought near the constituen- the law, and also in fact, has but one sentation by single districts is one cies they severally represent. My col- interest. which not only has been tried in the league, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) has ex- The gentleman also says that comState of Michigan, but has been uni- plained that this important object is plaints have been heard in reference versally approved by the people of the secured even under the present arrange- to this arrangement in the city of DeState. If it is a principle that is just ment in regard to the city of Detroit. troit. In what form those complaints in its operation upon the people, then That city is of itself a comparatively have been made I am unable to tell. why make a distinction in favor of any small locality; in territorial extent it is It may, undoubtedly, be true that some particular locality, by withholding from not larger than the town of Lansing person may have written here, and the locality the same privileges that here, or not much larger. And as was stated that he was not represented. As has been very well asked here, and there is hardly any necessity of my repeating it, what was the origin of this single district system? It originated in the State of New York, and we adopted it here because it came from the State of New York. In the Convention of 1835, and in the Convention of 1850, we could hardly do anything that contravened that which had been done in the State of New York. There will be men in the city of De- but if it prevails, I think I shall offer What do you see in every other city of troit, until the last trump shall sound, one providing that the same rule shall this Union where you carry out this who will not be represented, and who apply to Clinton county, for we are in elective system, so that every officer in should not be represented, because the same predicament there which my the city, from the highest to the lowest their views do not deserve representa- friend from Wayne seems to think he is elected? I will guarantee that the tion. I mean by that no disrespect to would be in, if the section, as reported portion of the population which do not any one, but I make the remark because by the committee, should be adopted. desire to have the laws executed will they will comprise but individuals, and He says the State has already inter- in many cases, control the city. individual views can not be and should fered somewhat with their city govern- That is the reason of it. And not be represented in the Legislature. ment, and he does not like it. If I am I would like the gentleman to I aver here upon this floor that there to believe the report of the Mayor of compare notes with the gentleman from has been no opposition in the city of that city, and other gentlemen of the Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) who is in favor of Detroit, to the principle now applied city who came here and made repre- the people all the time. I would ask to that city. The united sentiment of sentations to me, and I presume to the gentleman from Kent if he is in that city is that we do better by having other members of this Convention, I favor of the whole people of the State our representatives elected on a gen- think there might be some more inter- of Michigan controlling the city of eral ticket. It is not difficult to under- ference to good advantage. They said Detroit, instead of the people of that stand this; a representive ticket elected that they could not now enforce salu- city? at large is put in nomination by a con- tary laws there. I think, if this is the vention representing the whole city, case, it is time the city was seen to and acting as I think, freer and with more than it already has been. I hope purer motives, with a higher intelli- this amendment will not prevail; but if gence, than would any single ward it does, I have one which I shall offer caucus made up of such popular ele- to apply to our county. ments as are generally represented in Mr. MCCLELLAND. It is the those caucuses. My friend may have easiest thing in the world to make assome acquaintance with that system; I sertions, but sometimes it is a very had in former times; as the boys say difficult matter to prove them. It is I know it like a book." I say it is the easiest thing in the world for a better for all parties in the city of man to make an argument from Detroit that the delegation to represent premises selected by himself. Now, if This system comes from the that city in the Legislature, shall be the gentleman who last spoke (Mr. proposed through a general conven- DANIELLS) had but referred to the polit-State of New York. I was opposed to tion of the people of that city, and be ical complexion of the members of it in principle, at the time it was first elected on a general ticket. We are the Legislature from the city of De- adopted here, and I am opposed to it directly interested in this matter. troit, for several years past, he never in principle now, and should oppose its There is no violation of any theory in would have lugged politics into this entire adoption, if it were a new quesfavor of the single district system. controversy. We have refrained from tion. But our people have become The constituent and the representative that heretofore, and we intend to do it accustomed to it, and they are satisstand face to face. The great interests hereafter, unless we are pressed into it fied with it, just as they are satisfied to be represented are the interests of by gentlemen here. If the glove is with a great many other things that the city of Detroit as a municipality, thrown down, we are willing to are in all probability at first, wrong in Just exactly like a and not the interest of any single sec- take it up and defend ourselves; but, themselves. pass; tion of that city. I earnestly entreat until the glove is thrown down, we great many laws that we gentlemen of this committee not, from shall not mention anything of this they are bad at first, but people adapt themselves to those laws, become any mere theory or abstract notion, to kind here. impose upon us a rule which will be Look at the delegation from the accustomed to them, and then they are unwieldy and unwise.. city of Detroit last winter in the Leg- opposed to their repeal. And for the Mr. DANIELLS. I hope, if this islature of this State. It was one of best reason in the world, because it amendment prevails, that we will have the ablest delegations ever sent from would not then be useful to repeal one that will apply to my county. I that city; one of the ablest in the them. This principle is now in opethink I am interested very much as the State. Politically, that delegation did ration here, and I am not going to gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. McCLEL- not represent our sentiments and our LAND,) seems to be. Our county is views; but still they represented us, But I will say, merely in passing, composed of two representative dis- and we were satisfied with that repre- that when you had the system which tricts The one I live in has unfor- sentation; we were in the man, satisfied, was in operation under the old Contunately incorporated in it a town that although they were opposed to us institution of 1835, there was harddoes not give one single Republican politics. We believed that they ly a county in the State of Michivote. At any rate, it did not give me represented the great interests of gan which had more than one reprea vote last spring. [Laughter.] Now, that city. sentative, that did not generally if we can make the county a unit, we one first-class man The gentleman says that he has been send from can elect two Republican representa- informed-by the organ of the the county county to your legislative tives every time. I think the great municipal government of the city halls. Without meaning any disredifficulty with the gentleman from of Detroit that the laws could spect whatever to the Legislatures Wayne in regard to dividing the city not be executed in the city of since 1850, I will say that the Legislaof Detroit into separate election dis- Detroit. Why? Because the State of tures previous to 1850, would, to say tricts is that some representatives Michigan will not allow us to enforce the least, compare favorably in ability, might be elected not exactly according them. I say to you that so long as you experience, knowledge and integrity to his taste. I do not say whether I have this elective system in a city like with those which have taken their shall vote for his amendment or not; Detroit, you never can execute the laws. places in this hall since that time. discuss it. They were elected by general ticket for the county, not by single districts. in the city of Detroit. And here permit like that, where we have all classes of me to say that I do not know that it is people collected together, to have forI will tell you one of the evils which the most delicate thing in the world for eigners from all lands. But the people would result to us in the city of De-a man to come forward here and say, of Detroit are not to blame for that, troit, from this single representative "I know the people think so and so, any more than the people of Grand district system. We now select repre- and so and so;" especially when there Rapids are responsible for the characsentatives from all the different classes are so many members of this Conven- ter of the people that will by-and-by and professions there. One man prob- tion who would rise and say that they make her a tremendous city. We must ably represents a certain vocation; an- believe the very opposite. expect, in cities, to have all classes of other man represents a certain profes- If the people were SO very people. sion; one represents one kind of much in favor of this single district. I have been acquainted with the city business, another another kind of system, and detested so much this gen- of Detroit ever since it was a small business. And when our five repre- eral ticket system that we have in De- village, or town. And I have never sentatives (I believe that is the number troit, and if that general ticket system been in any city of the United States, we are entitled to now) come here in had ever operated to the injury of the where there is so much civility, so this hall, they unite and combine the State, or any portion of it, is it a cred- much intelligence, so much good conexperience of the whole. That of itself ible thing to believe that there would duct and courtesy, as I have seen in gives them weight as it should, and it have been no protest against it sent to the city of Detroit. I have been acgives them power as it should. And this Convention? We would have had quainted in Boston, New York, so it would be with a large county petitions presented to us upon the Albany, and old Troy, Utica, having three or four or more represen- subject, asking for an abolition of the and Buffalo, and almost all the cities tatives. You would take them from privilege that we have there enjoyed of the East; but I have never seen a all the different branches of business; from 1850 to the present time. better regulated city than the city of at all events they would represent those As has been well said before, we do Detroit. Hence, it is hard for me to different branches. And when you not ask this privilege on account of see that city trampled down by such combine their knowledge and experi- politics or party. We ask it not only epithets, by such slanders. If the ence, you would have a power in the for the benefit of the city of Detroit, scum of which the gentleman from Legislature which you do not get un- but for the benefit of the State at Kent speaks is in the city of Detroit, der the single representative district large. We are carrying out that which all I can say is that I have never seen system. should be at the bottom of the single it, although I have been there on pubdistrict principle; we unite the inter- lic business more or less for twenty ests of the people and their knowledge years. This is not the first time that of the candidates for the different of- I have heard that city traduced in the fices. Every argument that has been made to sustain the single district system is applicable to the system which we have in Detroit. And, therefore, I cannot see how gentleman can consistently oppose the amendment which I have offered. Again, we say that this system has been in operation for seventeen years, and even if this section is adopted it will continue in operation until 1870. Now, where there is no protest or remonstrance against it, where the people, apparently at least, for I know of no opposition to it at all-where the people there are unanimous in favor of continuing this system, why not let it alone? legislative councils of this State. Even when the Legislature convened in the city of Detroit, men living in far distant parts of the State gathered there, and spent their whole time and their best energies, and made their strongest speeches, to trample down the city of Detroit and her people. I have seen it for nearly thirty years. I wish the Mr. SHEARER. I am in favor of The gentleman from Oakland, the amendment, from long experience (Mr. P. D. WARNER,) says that in the county of Wayne, and in the thing was stopped. If gentlemen are the system in operation in Detroit is city of Detroit. The city of Detroit is not satisfied with the people of the opposed to the single district system, so situated, with its large and small metropolis of this State, then they which has been approved by the whole wards, that it would be almost impos- should let them alone. I do not bepeople of the State. Now, I ask him sible to subdivide those wards and lieve in these personalities; I believe where he gets his proof of that? As bring out the best talent of those wards they are wrong in principle and very I said, it is the easiest thing in the as representatives to the Legislature. degrading. world to make an assertion, but it is I have nothing to say in regard to pol- Now, in relation to this amendment, very difficult sometimes to prove it. itics in this Convention, unless some- I am in favor of it. When you go to The present Constitution does not body treads upon my toes. I have not subdivide the city, you will create anadhere in every instance to the single said a word upon that subject here, tagonisms in that city, when their welrepresentative district principle. The and do not calculate to, unless I am fare and their interests should be one. single representative system was aban-forced to do it. For the last thirty But let the people come together, when doned in regard to the city of Detroit years the city of Detroit has been rep- their interests are but one, and they and other cities and certain town-resented as much by the whigs as by can select their best men to represent ships, by the Convention of 1850. the democrats, as much by republicans them in the Legislature. Should the And yet the people of the State of as by democrats, in the Legislature. ticket be a Republican ticket or a Michigan approved the Constitution So that as far as the political horizon Democratic ticket, that makes no difof 1850, and as a matter of course they in that city is concerned, it has nothing ference at all. I do not believe in this approved what the gentleman in all to do with this question. little party idea of trampling down a probability would consider an innova- In all the acquaintance I have had principle that has stood for seventeen tion upon the single representative dis- with the city of Detroit, I have never years, and cutting it up, and carving trict system. The proof does not seen that "scum," which the gentle- it, for the purpose of making a little therefore sustain the assertion of the man from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) speaks political capital. It has not about it gentleman at all. I ask any gentleman of. If he has seen it there, he has the mark of statesmen or wise men. I upon this floor to point out to me a seen more than I have, and is more do not find fault with the committee single protest, from any portion of the observant than I am in reference to for doing it. But I believe we should State, against the principle in operation" scum." We must expect, in a city allow those laws to remain, which from |