that there will be no more discussion ties, we provided that the board of
upon it.
supervisors might have jurisdiction
Mr. GIDDINGS. One word in reply over certain things, except as other-
to the gentleman from Monroe, (Mr. wise provided. And among these
MORTON,) who has been so much in things "otherwise provided," it was
accord with me on this subject of legis- distinctly and clearly asserted should
lating in the Constitution. I suppose be the compensation which they them-
the people of Michigan are as honest selves should receive. There has been
as the people of other States generally, existing a state of things under which
and as capable of managing their own the people felt aggrieved. The super-
affairs as are the people of other States. visors in our localities have been in the
I believe that a legislative body, assem- habit of fixing just as much compen-
bled in the State of Michigan, would sation for themselves, as they saw fit to
be as competent to take charge of such establish.
matters as these, and other matters
pertaining to the State, as congressmen
are to take care of the the affairs of the
United States. And a single clause
which I am going to read, I think will
be a sufficient excuse for the proposition
which I have offered here. Although it
may not be adopted by this committee,
I will at all events have done my duty.
I will read a clause which has been
deemed sufficient under the govern-
ment of the United States for the pur-
pose of determining this whole ques-
tion of compensation as it is called, for

Mr. MORTON. The question, as I understand it, is upon the motion of the gentleman from Kalamazoo, (Mr. GIDDINGS,) to strike out all but the first sentence of this section. I suppose it has been sufficiently discussed. But as I have uniformly agreed with that gentleman as to the necessity of not restricting the Legislature upon almost all the subjects that come before them, I desire to state my reasons for disagreeing with him upon this subject. The Legislature is called to consider matters of public interest; and I say that they should not be restricted as much as they have been. But when the question is one of a kind which applies solely to the members of the Legislature themselves, then I say they should be restricted. It is not in relation to matters of public interest, that this section is incorporated in this Constitution. It is intended to apply to members of the Legislature as such members, and to compel them not to do that which is wrong. Therefore, I believe in restricting members of the Legislature upon matters which relate to their own personal interests. The members of Congress. propriety of such a restriction is altogether different from what it is when they come to act upon matters of public interest, entirely disconnected with their own private interests. Therefore, I think that this section, or something similar to it, is necessary.

.

We all know that members of the Legislature would run to excess if left to their own judgment in regard to the value of their services. I believe it is necessary to have the mileage fixed; also the amount which members can

draw from the State for stationery,

The committee therefore thought proper to append to that section something which was not perhaps strictly necessary, "such compensation as is provided by law." What is the prin ciple involved? It is that the body itself, or the individual, whether corporate or personal, were not at liberty to fix their own compensation, or to regulate their own mileage, or in any way to control their perquisites of office.

I do not think there is any reason
whatever in saying that we are legis-
lating on these matters. It is not pro-
posed to legislate upon those matters
of general interest in which the people
of the State at large have a concern, or
about which they expect that the Leg-
islature will make provision, or over
The gentleman across the way (Mr. which they desire the members of the
CONGER) objects very much to leaving Legislature to have jurisdiction or con-
this matter to the Legislature. Now, trol. I hope that the motion to strike
my own impression is that the Legis- out will not prevail; unless the sub-
lature is as competent and as safe a stitute of the gentleman from Wayne,
body with which to leave the questions (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) shall be amended
covered by the section under consider- in regard to mileage, and then I should
ation, as is this Constitutional Conven- prefer that to this section.
tion; at least the government of the
United States so held with regard to
the Congress of the United States.

I would That was the opinion of the "fathers, and as amended by the committee of

and such other matters.
wish to restrict them in all these
the whole, to either of the substitutes
things, because they cannot be styled
which have been offered here. I was
matters of public interest-matters in
Mr. HENDERSON. It seems to me in hopes that my friend from Monroe,
which the people are as deeply inter- that the gentleman from Kalamazoo, (Mr. MORTON,) when he had the floor,
ested as in the ordinary subjects of (Mr. GIDDINGS,) in his last remarks would have stated a reason which I am
legislation. I have no objection to the especially, as well as in his former re- about to state here, why it is prefer-
section as it stands. I should like the marks, either designedly or otherwise, able that this Convention shall fix all
amendment of the gentleman from ignores the main question entirely. these matters, and not leave them to
Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) with two When he says the compensation is to the Legislature. He approached that
or three amendments attached, much be fixed by law he stops there, and reason very nearly, when he stated he
better than I do this section. But I does not go on to say that the Legisla- wanted to give an excuse for differing
do not object to either. I only desire ture is to make the law which shall fix with the gentleman from Kalamazoo,
to say that members must see that that compensation. I have often du- (Mr. GIDDINGS,) in regard to legislat-
there is a necessity for legislating in ring the session here, even at the ex- ing in the Constitution.
the Constitution upon these matters, pense of disagreeing with my col-
more than in reference to other sub-leagues, opposed legislation in the ter, I hope gentlemen here have
By the way, in regard to that mat-
jects which have been considered by Convention. But I think the remarks the changes on the subject
this body. I believe the minds of of the gentleman from Kalamazoo, tion here to their heart's content.
members are made up upon this sub- have more of ring than of significance They cannot suppose that any gentle-
ject. I believe they intend to allow in them, when he sets up the hue and man on this floor will be either intimi-
members of the Legislature so much cry of "too much legislation" here. dated or moved by any of that kind of
for their regular compensation, and to In the article on counties is a section talk. I have noticed once in a while
restrict them in all these other matters. which met the unanimous vote of the that when any man is opposed to an
As I know that members are prepared Convention. Why was it adopted? In amendment or proposition, he cries
to vote upon this question, I hope section eleven of the article on coun-lout "Oh! it is legislation." But when

The question was upon the substitute of Mr. MCCLELLAND for the substitute of Mr. WRIGHT.

Mr. BILLS. I desire to ask the mover of that substitute if there might not be an embarrassment in changing the compensation at any time, so far as it may relate to members of the Senate. By this article a portion of the members of the Senate go out at one time; of course, upon any change being made in the compensation, a portion of the. Senate would remain in office for the next Legislature.

Mr. MCCLELLAND. Then the compensation would not be changed for these members of the Senate who remained in the Legislature.

Mr. HENDERSON. It occurred to me, after taking my seat, that in alluding to the substitute of the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) I failed to express fully what I meant. I only excepted to the part with regard to mileage. I should have included also the fact that I took exception to allowing members to fix their own compensubstitute to the original section.

ter all up, and it was not known As to the provision contained in this generally that any such thing was to section; that each member shall be en- transpire. In a stealthy hour a message titled to one copy of the laws, journals, came from the Governor to the Legislaand documents of the Legislature, of ture, and in a moment, as it were, in the which he shall be a member, there twinkling of an eye, there was a great would be no difficulty about that under wrong perpetrated upon individuals in my amendment. Every member of the this State. And what has transpired Legislature would have access to the may transpire again. I am opposed to State library where he could procure any such clap-trap being put in the for himself a copy of the laws, to be Constitution. Take all your traps and used during the session of the Legisla- snares out of the Constitution, so that ture. As a matter of co course every the people may not be jeopardized member would be entitled to a copy of by any such operations. It is easy I am in favor of this compensation the journals and documents of the ses- enough to be seen that by political sion. The session journals and docu- manoeuvering a trap of this kind may of six dollars per day to the President ments would be no part of course of be sprung upon the people of this State, of the Senate and the Speaker of the the compensation of members for their and they would have no chance what- House of Representatives, because of services. They might order those ever to resist it, unless they rose in the responsibilities that rest upon them, things for themselves; but I would not reon. I hope that the legislation and the great labor they have to perrestrict them in that particular. I think of the State hereafter will be so con- form. I think it is right that these that on the whole, it appears to be the ducted as to avoid all disposition to officers should have their increase of aim of many members of this commit- revolution. When legislation tends to compensation; and gentleman who have tee to tie the hands of the Legislature revolution, it produces blood. It may had experience in matters of legislatoo closely, to leave them too little to be agreeable to some gentlemen to tion will sustain me in the assertion, do, to mistrust them too much. I am have blood drawn, because it requires that chairmen of the standing commitunwilling to take this ground; I am a great many servants to go round tees have a vast amount of labor to unwilling to occupy the position of with a sponge and take it up. I am in perform. It seems to me that they are saying, or implying, that I have no favor of having such legislation as will equally entitled to the favorable conconfidence in the future Legislatures tend to keep the people quiet. I am sideration of this Convention with the which shall convene in this city. I in favor of having such a Constitution President of the Senate, and the Speakthink the substitute I have offered as will quiet the apprehensions of the er of the House of Representatives. I comprehends enough; it restricts the people, secure them in their interests, think it is no more than right, that Legislature enough. I hope, therefore, and save them from all clap-trap oper- they should receive additional compensation. In reference to the latter that the proposition made by the gen- ations. tleman from Wayne will not be clause of this section, in relation to mileage, I think it is wholly unnecesadopted. I hope the majority of this committee will vote down this proposary. They would receive their milesition, and that when they come to age any way, as members of the Legvote upon the substitute I have offered, they will adopt it.

"The members of the Legislature shall receive for their services a compensation to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the pub-islature, lic treasury; but no increase of the compen- Mr. DANIELLS. I hope this amendsation shall take effect during the term for which the members of either House shall ment will not prevail. It would be have been elected; such compensation shall very invidious to make such a distincexceed four dollars per day, with not ten tion between members of the various cents mileage, for the distance actually trayeled by the usual routes, and an allowance for committees. The gentleman from Kent, stationery, postage and newspapers, not ex- (Mr. FERRIS,) is the chairman of a very ceeding fifteen dollars for each member, dur- important committee in this body. The extra session, they shall legislate on no other committee on smoking tobacco in the subjects than those expressly submitted by public streets. the Governor."

Mr. FERRIS. That is not a standing committee.

Mr. DANIELLS. I have the honor

Mr. MUSSEY. We had faithful officers in those days in some of Mr. BURTCH. I am opposed to our offices. The only question, howthe way I believe it is now in the Sen- the amendment offered by the gentle-ever, is, shall this section be framed so man. It was said here by some gentle as to suit the views of the Convention, Mr. MORTON. I move to strike out man, that if this section was allowed and carry out the object they intended this section. I will say that there has to remain as it was, it would create a stitution? I judge, from what I can to secure by this provision of the Connever been any difficulty in inducing great deal of log-rolling. Now, log-learn of the temper and feeling of the men of either political party to accept rolling is always a necessity in a new members of this Convention, that they the office of Lieutenant Governor, and country, and members who come here do not wish to provide for extra compenmembers of this Convention, that they preside over the Senate, or to take the from the newer portions of the State do not wish to provide for extra compenposition of Speaker of the House of are generally better acquainted with sation for the presiding officers of the Representatives. I have my doubts that kind of business than they are we should fail to secure the object in two houses of the Legislature. I think whether either of those officers have with legitimate legislation. as much laborious duty to perform as Mr. MUSSEY. My first impression view if we struck out this section. some of the chairmen of important was that I should favor the motion of committees. I think

more propriety in there would be the gentlemen from Monroe, (Mr. withdraw my motion to strike out, if

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