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do so.


derstandingly. He says “Why all it will read, "the compensation of the stand that he is opposed to our delibthis legislation ?” Why, sir, that is members of the Legislature during the eration's here upon what we have to the object of our being here, to legis- session thereof shall be four dollars do. I understand his opposition to late. We should so express our senti- per day.”

be against such legislation in matters ments upon paper that they may be The CHAIRMAN. There is a mo- of detail, as will tie up the hands of understood; that he who runs may tion pending to strike out all of this the Legislature

. I entirely agree with read, and that every man may under- section, except the first sentence. That the sentiments of the gentleman from stand it. I am opposed to all this in- motion would have the precedence, as Kalamazoo in that respect. There tolerable horror of legislation. Gen- it does not relate to the part of the seem to be two extremes here, if I tlemen get up here on this floor and section referred to by the gentleman may so speak, in regard to this subject express themselves perfectly horrified from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER.)

of Constitution making. Those on the at the idea that we are legislating. I Mr. GIDDINGS. I am willing that one side seem to want the Constitution understand that is the very object for the amendment of the gentleman from to consist simply of a declaration of which we were sent here. We were sent St. Clair shall be voted upon, before my principles, so far as practicable, and not here to make the organic law of the motion is submitted to a vote. to include any provisions upon matState, and if any law needs delibera- The CHAIRMAN. That can be done ters of detail, tying up the hands of tion, certainly that law needs delibera-, if there is no objection.

the Legislature any further than may tion and consideration. I am only No objection being made, the ques- seem to have been proved to be necesafraid that we shall not legislate tion was stated to be upon the amend-sary from past experience. The othenough; that we shall be in too great ment of Mr. CONGER.

er extreme seem to be desirous of

prohaste to leave here to return to our Mr. CONGER. My friend from Ma- ceeding to make provision in reference homes, and not do the duty which we comb, (Mr. MUSSEY,) seems to think to matters of detail

, treating the legiswere sent here to perform as it should that the compensation provided for in lative body as a sort of necessary evil

, be done. I am not afraid that my this section would run all through the to be regulated and restricted in alconstituents will say that we spent too year. Although the committee on the most every particular; to make promuch time here, and that we are frit- legislative department were not of that vision against what seems assumed tering away our time. I am afraid that opinion, still we are willing to be ad- to be a disposition on the part of that they will censure us for not taking time vised upon the subject. The insertion body to transgress upon the - rights of enough, for not deliberating suffic- of the words I have proposed would the people on every occasion where the iently, for not considering properly all probably make the meaning of the sec- Constitution leaves it open for them to the matters which come before us. tion more clear.

I am really astonished that men of The question was taken upon the Now, I confess that I belong to the sense and understanding should get up amendment of Mr. CONGER, and it was former class of this Convention. here and blaze away so furiously agreed to.

believe that the legislative body of the against legislation, when we were sent

The question recurred upon the mo- State of Michigan are just about as here to legislate. That is the object tion of Mr. GIDDINGS, to strike out all virtuous a set of men as usually get of our convening here. Still these but the first sentence of the section. together in any State or nation; that gentlemen get up here and say, “Oh, Mr. BILLS. I move to amend the they are as competent judges upon this is all legislation! let us strike out portion proposed to be stricken out, these matters of detail as we are; that this whole section."

I see nothing by striking out the words their com- they are no more liable to transgress reprehensible in this section; I think it pensation shall be four dollars per day;" upon the rights of the people, if their is good just as it is. I think the gen- so that the sentence will read, “when hands are not tied, than this body, or tlemen who reported it here have done convened in extra session, they shall any other elected by the people. Foltheir duty, and I shall sustain this sec- legislate on no other subjects than lowing out this idea of these gentletion as it came from the committee. I those expressly stated in the Gover- men who desire to proceed to legislate hope it will not be stricken out, or any nor's proclamation, or submitted to upon matters of detail in this. Convenpart of it. them by special message."

tion, following out those views to their Mr. MCCLELLAND. I desire to The question was taken upon the natural and legitimate results, we have a vote, at the proper time, taken amendment of Mr. Bills, and it was should sit here and proceed to make a upon the substitute I proposed to this agreed to.

complete code of laws, and not form a section. Gentlemen will find that it is The question then recurred upon the Constitution merely, and then abolish precisely the same as section eighteen motion of Mr. GIDDINGS.

the legislative department entirely, of the article on the legislative depart- Mr. BLACKMAN. I desire to in- and leave the legislation of the State ment in the Constitution of 1835, ex- quire whether it would be in order to hereafter to the boards of supervisors cept that the amount is changed from insert anything in, or to add anything of the different counties; and as a three to four dollars per day, and a to the section, if the motion to strike friend near me suggests, "without apclause is added providing that when out shall prevail ?

peal.” the Legislature shall be convened in The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is of Although I entirely agree with the extra session they shall legislate on no the opinion that should the motion to views expressed by the gentleman from other subjects than those expressly strike out a portion of this section Kalamazoo, I do not entirely agree submitted to them by the Governor. prevail, it would be in order to insert to his motion to strike out the last part

The CHAIRMAN. The substitute any words the committee of the whole of this section; unless it be for the purof the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. may desire to have inserted.

pose of adopting the substitute of the MCCLELLAND,) will be voted upon after Mr. LONGYEAR. I think that gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. Mcthe other propositions have been dis- the gentleman from Oakland, (Mr CLELLAND.) In my view, that substiposed of.

VAN VALKENBURGH,) in his reply to the tute is the best proposition which has Mr. CONGER. I move to amend gentleman from Kalamazoo, Mr. GID-been submitted for the perfection of the first sentence of this section by in- DINGS,) misapprehends entirely the this section, with perhaps a single serting after the word “Legislature," force of the argument, and the views addition. “during the session thereof;" so that of that gentleman. I do not under

Mr. GIDDINGS. I do not care


much what is put in there, if you do they may allow themselves. The fact tleman allow me to make a suggestion not keep in the words that are there is I would rather leave them free to in regard to the Constitution of 1835? now; you cannot make it worse than it fix their own per diem, their ostensible Mr. CONGER. Yes, sir. is now.

compensation, than to leave the other Mr. MCCLELLAND. The ConstituMr. LONGYEAR. The substitute matter uncertain, where they can make tion of 1835 did not profess to do anyof the gentleman from Wayne (Mr. allowances to themselves to any extent thing of the kind which he charges. MCCLELLAND) proposes to strike out without the people knowing precisely It provided that members of the Legisthe whole of the section. The addition what is done. I think there is more lature should receive for their services I would make to the substitute would reason for fixing a limit to the per- a compensation to be ascertained by be in regard to the mileage, for the quisites, than to the regular compensa- law. The Legislature was to fix that reason that, with the compensation tion.

compensation. fixed in the section, it would be doubt- Mr. CONGER. As I understand Mr. CONGER. The restriction was ful whether the Legislature could the question, it is to strike out all but three dollars a day, I think. make any arrangement about mileage. the first sentence of this section. It is Mr. MOCLELLAND. The compen

Mr. MCCLELLAND. I will say to said by the gentleman from Kalamazoo, sation was not to exceed three dollars the gentleman that mileage was always (Mr. ĞIDDINGS,) that there is too much a day; but the Legislature was to fix allowed under the Constitution of 1835, legislation in this article, and the gen- the amount of compensation within although there was no provision in re- tleman has read a portion of an article that limit. gard to it in the Constitution.

from the New York Post." I had an Mr. CONGER. As I said, there was Mr. LONGYEAR. I would prefer extract from that paper sent me in a nothing in the Constitution of 1835 to to have a provision in reference to mile- letter, and upon examination I find prevent the Legislature from fixing age embraced in this section, so as to that the gentleman has read correctly their compensation at three dollars a have it fixed, and not leave it to the the last paragraph of the article. I day during the entire term for which Legislature entirely.

intended to use that article for a dif- they were elected. Now, there was an Mr. M. C. WATKINS. I have, per- ferent purpose somewhere; but the object in making the change which haps, as great confidence in the Legis- gentleman seems to have had friends was made by the Convention of 1850. lature as the gentleman from Ingham, abroad, who supplied him with the Gentlemen will remember that on one (Mr. LONGYEAR.) I have also confi- same article, and therefore he has fore- or two, and perhaps on three occasions, dence in the judges of our courts and stalled me, so that my thunder is gone, the sergeant-at-arms left his post here in the other officers of the State. But and not much lightning left. I do not and traveled off in certain directions I am not inclined to allow them to fix myself see any particular incongruity to bring back some forty or fifty doltheir own salaries; neither would I in the language of the section. Not lars' worth of stationery, which perallow the members of the Legislature being the original author of this sec- sons, not members of the Legislature, to fix their own compensation. I think tion, and the committee reporting the had received from their friends in the that matter should be fixed in the Con- article not being the original authors Legislature. I remember it; other stitution.

of it, there can be no impropriety in gentlemen probably remember it. In Mr. LONGYEAR. Will the gentle- my saying that I think it is very good the Constitution of 1835 there was no man allow me a single word ?

language. It expresses in brief words limitation placed upon the amount of Mr. M. C. WATKINS. Yes, sir. exactly what the committee intended stationery which members might pro

Mr. LONGYEAR. That was my to express, exactly what I desire to vide for themselves. There is a gentleproposition. I was in favor of the have in the Constitution. It is much man I think, still living somewhere in substitute of the gentleman from more directand much more specific than this State, who was requested to return Wayne, (Mr. MOCLELLAND,) which does the substitute proposed by the gentle to the Legislature after having travellimit the compensation.

man from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND.) led some forty or fifty miles, and Mr. M. C. WATKINS. I think it is For instance, the first line of this section to bring back some stationery here very proper that the Constitution is as follows: “The compensation of the which some friends had provided should fix the compensation, mileage, members of the Legislature shall be him with. Perhaps my friend and perquisites of the members of the four dollars per day. The gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND,) may Legislature. I do not know but the from Macomb, (Mr. MUSSEY,) raised recollect the circumstance. I think it substitute proposed by the gentleman the question whether under that clause occurred somewhere in the neighborfrom Wayne would do that also. But members of the Legislature would not hood of the county of Wayne, perhaps I am entirely opposed to the proposi- be allowed four dollars a day during in some one of the adjoining counties. tion of the gentleman from Kalamazoo, the whole two years of their term. But I will even go so far as to say that it (Mr. GIDDINGS.). I would no more section eighteen of the article on the was somewhere bordering on the St. leave the Legislature to fix their com- legislative department, in the Constitu- Clair river. Although that may hit my pensation, than I would leave that tion of 1835 was no limitation. It pro- county a little, still I will say that it matter to any other State, county or vided only that members of the Legis- was somewhere on that river that the township officers. I think that matter lature should receive three dollars a gentleman resided who took that stashould be fixed definitely in the Con- day. There never was any pretense tionery off with him. stitution.

under the section that they might re- When the Convention of 1850 met, Mr. BLACKMAN. I desire to say a ceive three dollars per day for every that fact was recollected. Provision word or two in regard to this matter. day of their term. I think there was was made that in future the LegislaI am in favor of a limitation being never any question raised in regard to ture should not be deprived of the serplaced in the Constitution in regard to that matter. If there was, the pro- vices of the sergeant-at-arms, by his the perquisites which the Legislature posed substitute is objectionable to the going off to look up the stationery of may allow themselves, as well as in re- same extent as the first line of the sec- the State. It was not so much to pregard to their regular compensation. I tion. I therefore call the attention of vent the loss of the stationery, as it was can see no reason against limiting their my friend from Macomb to that, so to prevent the loss of the services of compensation, which would not apply that it may be corrected.

the sergeant-at-arms. That was one equally well to limiting the perquisites Mr. MOCLELLAND. Will the gen- reason for the restriction which was


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placed in the Constitution of 1850. The the Constitution of the United States, fore the committee: Shall the compublic papers were so full of comments not to recollect that provision. pensation of members of the Legislaupon these matters, that gentlemen who

Mr. GIDDINGS. That is not the ture be four dollars a day? If it is resided here in the State at that time, question I put to the gentleman. I intended to fix the compensation at must recollect that public attention was asked the gentleman if he would, to-four dollars a day, then I think this is called to the necessity of some provis- day, put into the Constitution of the clear and explicit. ion in the Constitution of 1850 on this United States, a clause upon the sub- Mr. LONGYEAR. I would inquire subject; therefore the Constitution of ject of mileage ?

of the Chair, whether the question now 1835 was changed, and the last clause Mr. CONGER. I say that those before the committee involves the tion of 1850 effectually provided for the mileage of members of Congress which fixes the compensation of mem

la. men did provide that striking out of that part of the section that sort of traveling stationery. It should be fixed at a certain rate; they bers of the Legislature at four dollars was thought to be a very good provis- fixed that rate at a day's pay for every a day? ion. There is nothing of that sort in twenty miles traveled; that is eight The CHAIRMAN. The motion of the proposed substitute, and the same dollars for every twenty miles. Now, the gentleman from Kalamazoo, (Mr difficulty might occur again under that it might have been very trifling in these GIDDINGS,) is to strike out all of the substitute; there might be the same old gentlemen, with their wigs on, to section except the first sentence. tendency to activity and liveliness in condescend to such little fooleries as Mr. CONGER. I understood that the stationery of the State as before; that. But I do not think it would be there was a substitute pending for this it might go off without any provision of any disparagement in me, to admit section, being the section of the Conlaw. The last clause of the section is that I myself would condescend to stitution of 1835. as follows: such little matters, if I was engaged The CHAIRMAN. There is a sub

a * Each member shall be entitled to one copy

in preparing a Constitution for the stitute pending, but it is held in abeyof the laws, journals and documents of the United States.

ance until after the amendment of the Legislature of which he was a member; and Mr. DANIELLS. The gentleman gentleman from Kalamazoo shall have shall not receive at the expense of the State, books, newspapers, or other perquisites of says railroads are confined to charging been' voted upon. office, not expressly authorized by this con- three cents per mile. I would ask the Mr. LONGYEAR. I do not understitution."

gentleman if Governor Crapo has not stand that the substitute proposes to The gentlemen of the Convention of got a railroad which charges a little strike out that clause of this section 1852 had reason for inserting that more than that?

which fixes the compensation of memclause. There was necessity for it at

Mx that time, and there is a necessity for no right to ask that question, because I The CHAIRMAN. There are two it now. The only remaining part about believe he does not come here by that substitutes, both of which relate to the which there is any particular trouble, route. (Laughter.]

compensation. is that in relation to mileage. The Mr. DANIELLS. I have had occa- Mr. LONGYEAR. Does either proquestion of mileage has been a trouble- sion to travel over it.

pose to strike out the clause fixing the some one in other bodies than the State

Mr. CONGER. Still that is not the compensation ? Legislature. It has created some usually travelled route” from DeWitt Mr. HENDERSON. The substitute trouble even in the national councils, to Lansing. The gentleman has, there- of the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. where the wisest of the wise gather fore, no right to make that inquiry. MOCLELLAND,) proposes to strike out together; it has created a great deal of But, seriously, all this talk about legis- this entire section, and leave the quesannoyance there, and has been a mat- lation in the Constitution has no appli- tion of compensation to the Legislature. ter of a great deal of criticism by the cation to this section at all. This is a

Mr. LONGYEAR. people all over the United States. If restriction and a limitation upon the substitute of the gentleman from Wayne

Does not the ten cents a mile is not sufficient, when Legislature itself. It is not legislating provide that the compensation of memby our laws we restrict railroads to three about matters in the State, but prescrib-bers of the Legislature shall not exceed cents a mile for passengers traveling ing rules which shall control the Legisla- four dollars per day? over their lines, if ten cents is not suf- ture; and with all due respect for the

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will ficient for traveling, and little inciden- Legislature, and for it should be increased. pay, it is proper to fix their mileage, tleman from Barry, (Mr. WRIGHT,) is

pending. The substitute of the genMr. GIDDINGS. Would the gen- and the perquisites of office. This

as follows: tleman be in favor of incorporating section, notwithstanding the committee a provision in regard to mileage in the on arrangement and phraseology have pensation of its members: Provided, That

" The Legislature shall determine the comConstitution of the United States? the supervision of our work, this sec- such compensation shall not exceed six hun

Mr. CONGER. I do not know tion, with the amendments that have dred ddlars per annum.” whether I would or not. But I do not been made to it here, expresses in just That seems to relate entirely to comprofess to have all the wisdom that as perfect and concise language as can pensation. The substitute of the genwas possesed by those who did frame be used exactly what the committee tleman from Wayne leaves the manner the Zonstitution of the United States. desire. If this committee of the of compensation to the Legislature, and If I remember aright, even those ven- whole choose to make other provisions restricts them from an increase of their erable old men, after they had come if they choose to alter this that is compensation during and also rethrough the fires of the revolution, did another thing. But I deny that this which they were elected, and also recondescend to introduce in the Consti- section is clumsily expressed, that it is stricts them to four dollars per day. tution of the United States such a ungrammatical, that there can be any The question, however, now is upon question as mileage; and provided that question about its meaning, or that it the amendment of the gentleman from each of the members of Congress, at all corresponds with Talleyrand's Kalamazoo, (Mr. GIDDINGS.) The deshould have for mileage the pay of one idea that words were to be used only bate perhaps should be allowed to exday for every twently miles traveled to conceal ideas.

tend to all matters before the comMy friend certainly is too learned in Now, to come to the proposition be- mittee upon this subject.

Vol. 2No. 9.

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Mr. GIDDINGS. I desire to ask a ture would ever be very likely to cut it Constitutions of other States to ascerquestion.

down below that amount. If the peo- tain what provisions they contain upon Mr. CONGER. I do not wish to ple in this organic law suggest to the this subject. But the Constitution of give way any longer. I will give way Legislature that their compensation the United States did fix the mileage by-and-by, after I have collected my might be ten dollars a day, while in when members had a per diem comthoughts a little.

actual session, I take it the members pensation. Mr. GIDDINGS.. I rise to a point of the Legislature would satisfy their Mr. MCCLELLAND. Will the genof order then. The question under consciences by allowing the compensa- tleman point out the section in the discussion is my proposition to strike tion to remain as the Constitution fixed Constitution of the United States which out all of the section but the first sen- it, and would never make it less fixes the mileage of members of Contence. The gentleman from St. Clair, than that amount. So that whatever gress? (Mr. CONGER,) is speaking upon a limit we fix in this Constitution, will be Mr. GIDDINGS. If the gentleman proposition which is not now before the limit that will be adopted by the will permit I will read the section of the Convention.

Legislature. Therefore, it would be no the Constitution of the United States, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will better to say that the compensation of which I think will satisfy him that there state in reference to the point of order, members of the Legislature shall not is no such clause in it as the gentleman that the gentlemån from St. Clair is be more than four dollars a day, than seems to suppose. discussing this section generally. He it would be to fix it at exactly four Mr. CONGER. I am informed that is illustrating what he wants to say dollars a day.

I am mistaken on that point; I am told by a reference to the first sentence of My own idea of the proper amount that the clause to which I referred is the section, which provides specifically of compensation is not expressed in in an act of Congress, instead of the for the compensation, as well as to the this section. But the amount here Constitution of the United States. I other parts of the section, which pro- fixed was what the committee thought admit that I was mistaken. My imvides for other things relating to the was proper, and I agreed to let it go. pression was that the Constitution propay of members,

I myself would have fixed the compen- vided that the mileage of a member of Mr. CONGER. It would be a very sation of member of the Legislature Congress should be at the rate of easy matter, even in the case of my at five dollars per day. If the people one day's pay for every twenty miles learned friend, who has gained confi- send to the Legislature a man of busi- traveled; that, however, only shows dence from his position in the courts, ness habits, and capacity, and talent, that I am human like the rest of the and has familiarized himself to public who at home requires for his services, gentlemen, for “ to err is human.” It speaking, for me to interrupt him with even while living at home without any brings me within the scope of humy feeble abilities, and disturb the extra expense, from three to five, oř manity, where I desire to be placed. strength and coherency of his argu- ten dollars a day, then I think he

Mr. MCCLELLAND. If the génment with all his power and intel- should have something commensurate tleman from St. Clair will permit, I will lectual might.

to the value of his services to pay him read the provision of the Constitution But that a modest man like myself for his services in the Legislature; not of the United States which relates to should be interrupted with no earthly so much as he was making at home, the compensation of members of Conobject under heaven except annoyance, not so much as to make it an object on

gress. and to interrupt a discussion which account of the salary, but at least Mr. CONGER. I have no objection has been allowed to go on uninter- enough to partly compensate him for so that it is not taken out of my time. rupted until I commenced, I think is his loss of time, and the injury to his

[Laughter.] not altogether fair. The gentleman business. But I will propose no amend

Mr. MCCLELLAND. The provision from Kalamazoo acts under the impulse ment to that effect.

of the Constitution of the United States of a little feeling. I excuse him, for Now, I will so far gratify the gentle upon this subject will be found on page like myself, he is a little impulsive. I man from. Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR) 16 of the Manual, and is as follows: propose to discuss all the matter now and the gentleman from Kalamazoo,

"The Senators and Representatives shall under consideration so as not to be re- (Mr. GIDDINGS,) as to confine myself receive a compensation for their services to quired to rise too often, and to speak to the matter immediately pending. be ascertained by law, and paid out of the too much. I was speaking to the pro- Is it desirable that we should strike treasury of the United States." posed substitute of the gentleman from out the portion of this section which This is very nearly the same as the Wayne, (Mr. McCLELLAND.). When the gentleman from Kalamazoo pro- provision which was contained in the there is a motion to strike out, and poses to strike out? This committee Constitution of 1835 of this State. there is a substitute held in abeyance, have decided, by a very large majority, Mr. CONGER. That is so, then. I take it that I have a right to discuss that it is not desirable to strike out Well, my view of the Constitution of the two propositions, and, to give my that part of the section. This commit- the United States was good for my reasons for or against them. I was tee have decided that when the Legis- argument as I was making it. Findsaying that the compensation fixed in lature shall be convened in extra ses- ing my mistake, and reading the Conthis section for members of the Legis- sion, they shall legislate on no other stitution as it actually is, I find that it lature was four dollars a day during subjects than those stated in the Gov- is very good for my argument as I the session. I was going on to say ernor's proclamations, or submitted to make it now. [Laughter.] It is the that the substitute proposed by the them by special message. I think the same provision which the gentleman gentleman from Wayne does not limit good sense of this committee of the from Wayne proposes to put in our the compensation to the session. whole will see that it is not desirable Constitution now. Yet, I submit to I was going on to say that the pro-to strike out that part of this section, gentlemen here, who are old members posed substitute fixed a limit above especially when it is borne in mind of Congress, and to other gentlemen of which the compensation should not go. that we have now decided to have an- this Convention, whether that question Now, coming to that point, I desire to nual sessions. Now, is it desirable to of mileage has not been a continual suggest to this committee that, if the fix in the Constitution the mileage of source of irritation in the Congress of limitation was fixed at ten dollars a members of the Legislature? I have the United States, from the time of the day, no man believes that the Legisla- not spent my time in looking over the adoption of the Constitution of the

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United States down to the time when of. It may be so with other parts of knowledge of every gentleman present the comperisation of members of Con- the State, where we do not expect so who has been a member of the Legisgress was fixed at an annual salary? much morality, if we do not have this lature, that the rule referred to in the It ought to have been fixed in the Con- restriction.

Constitution of 1850 is never enforced. stitution, if it was not.

Mr. LOVELL. I desire to ask the by the Legislature. The only case Is ten cents a mile too much ? I chairman of the committee on the legis- that I ever heard of, when that rule was say that mileage should be fixed in this lative department, why that committee enforced, was during the last session of Constitution. It is not a proper mat- omitted certain words which are to the Legislature, when one of the senater to be left for the Legislature to de- be found in the Constitution of 1850. tors did not appear here until during termine. The members of the Legis- .On page 8 of the Manual, section fif- the latter part of the session, or who lature do not desire it shall be left to teen, article IV of the Constitution of was here only a day or two. In that them, or if they do, the people do not 1850, will be found this provision: case I think the President of the Senate desire it. Now is ten cents a mile too "The compensation of members of the Leg- did not certify to his account. much? If it is then reduce it. Is it islature shall be three dollars per day for ac- Mr. FERRIS. He was paid for too little ? Then increase it. But fix tual attendance, and when absent on account of sickness."

four days. it in the Constitution at some rate. The section under consideration Mr. CONGER. If I recollect, it was There should be limitations and re- seems to contemplate that members the case of the Senator from the Upstrictions upon the Legislature, in re- shall recieve the same pay when absent, per Peninsula. Now, when you say gard to their compensation, their mile- no matter on what occasion, as when that the person shall be paid for actage, and their perquisites of office. present. It seems to me, from the ual attendance, it is very difficult to The whole history of this State shows little consideration I have given to this tell how you shall apply that rule. If that before these things were fixed, subject, it would be very desirable for there is a committee sent to visit an there were continual encroachments the State to employ members of the asylum, or sent away from actual at

the rights of members and upon Legislature, and perhaps all other pub-tendance the people, by the appropriation of lic servants, precisely as people ordi- rule is applied strictly, they can draw stationery, books and other things narily employ others to perform services no pay. If a member goes away for a from the State, for members and their for them. If I employ a man to labor day or two, it is not certain that he is friends. The gentleman from Wayne for me in any capacity, and he is taken not in the service of the State. The will remember that the records will sick, that is usually his loss and not Legislature has never applied the rule show the amounts of old bills, which mine. If his indisposition is an into a member in such a case. were paid by the State. Our own disposition to serve me, and a disposi- thought by the committee that this recollections will remind us that there tion to attend to business of his own, provision was useless in the Constituwere old bills for liquid stationery paid I certainly should never think of pay- tion; it was rather an occasion for an by the State, under the Constitution of ing him. I would myself rather see indirect violation of the Constitution, 1835. The paper in those days was the compensation fixed a little higher, than a practical benefit. For that firm and thick, and held liquids in if it is any object, though I do not reason the committee struck it out, , members' bills in some cases, amounted four dollars a day; but I would like to latue to decide in what cases compen

(Laughter:] . And propose to ask that it shall be over leaving it to each House of this it ha to from forty to two hundred and see the members of the Legislature sation should be allowed when memthirty-six dollars for stationery, which paid for their work, and not paid when bers were absent, and in what cases it was said in the common language of they are indisposed to work. I sup- should not be allowed, as was done in the people, to apply to a great deal of pose it has happened with members of the Senate during the last session of fluid matter, and not writing fluid the Legislature heretofore, as it has the Legislature. That is the only either.

with members of this Convention, that reason that I know of for changing Perhaps that is all that I ought to there has been very little indisposition the language of the section in that resay on the subject. Perhaps it is more on account of sickness, but consider- spect; that for all practical purposes it than it becomes me to say. But I felt able indisposition on account of private has been, and will be a dead letter in that it was due to the gentleman from business, and other sorts of indisposi- the Constitution, no matter what we Wayne, that I should refer him to the tion which, perhaps, need not be men- may say; an occasion in the opinion of good old times, when these things tioned, but which have taken members some, for the violation of the Constituneeded a little restriction, a trifling away. Now, members may find it tion, and no practical benefit. My restriction; when some of the smartest necessary to be away; but if they are own idea is, that if a member is genand shrewdest men of the State, ac- away attending to their business, and erally in attendance upon the Legislaknowledged by us to be so, were mem- not to the business of the State, then ture, or upon the Convention here, bers of the Legislature, and had large why should the State pay them? In having left his business for the purpose bills for stationery as I have described. other words, why should the State of being here, perhaps provided for I wanted to refer him to the time adopt a rule in employing its servants, somebody else to attend to his busiwhen one gentleman started from this which private corporations, or individ- ness during the whole term, and he capitol, got into an adjacent county-uals, never adopt? Why not fix the should be gone for a day or two poshe did not go off on the railroad, compensation for the actual labor per- sibly upon matters connected with his I believe, but on the plank road—with formed, at the price which the actual business here, or it may be upon mata large amount of stationery, which labor should command, and say that ters connected with his own private was taken and brought back here. He they shall be paid only for their actual business, there is no necessity for limitwas not a member of the Legislature, labor? I suppose there is a reason for ing his compensation on that account. however; that was furnished to him by omitting that provision. And, hence I A man may be away from the Convena friend who was in the Legislature. ask the chairman of the committee tion or the Legislature, for a day or two I think these things might happen why those words were left out. now and then, and still be more useful again, even with persons along the St. Mr. CONGER. I will answer the during the days that he is here, than Clair river; the last place in the world question of the gentleman from Gene- some other men who are never out of where such a thing would be thought see, (Mr. LOVELL). It is within the their seats or away during the session.

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