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Mr. CROSWELL. The first Wednes- rum present or not. If the fact of there'nical. I raise it because there are so day.

being a quorum or not is questioned, many votes taken here in which a quoMr. BILLS. I am corrected; they then the proper way is for the Chair- rum do not yote. It is the right of each met on the first Wednesday of Janu-man to direct a count to be made. The side of the question, affirmative or negary. This section as it now stands committee can take no action, can ative, to have the vote of every memprovides that the Legislature shall order no call to be made; they can only ber present. It is true that the praca meet on the second Wednesday of rise and report the fact to the Conven- tice has grown up under a sort of acJanuary, thereby losing one week of tion. I venture to say that the point commodating disposition on the part that month. It seems to me that we of order raised by the gentleman was of the presiding officer, in cases of this should not lose that week at the com- never raised in any parliamentary body kind, to pass over the fact that there mencement of the term. It is a ques- in the world; that is, the point that is no quorum, which is well enough tion in my mind whether it would not because a quorum did not vote on any perhaps at times. But upon all im- . be better to have the sessions of our question, therefore all proceedings portant questions, the votes of all the Legislature commence even earlier than must be stopped.

members present should be given; and the first day of January.

Mr. LONGYEAR. When the gen- this is the only way by which they can The question was taken upon the tleman gets through I will read him be obtained; especially where less than amendment of Mr. BiLLs, and upon a the law on that subject.

a quorum vote upon any question, to division there were ayes 13, noes 24, no Mr: CONGER. If it were so, then treat it as coming within the rule forquorum voting.

all legislation, except when by yeas and bidding business to be done without a ..The CHAIRMAN. The motion of nays, which are required to be recorded quorum. The Chair should notify the

the gentleman from Lenawee, (Mr. in a legislative body, would be stopped, body over which he presides, that a BILLS, ) is lost.

2 whenever upon any question there was quorum has not voted. Then it should Mr. LONGYEAR. As it will appear not interest enough taken by members be ascertained whether a quorum is in the record of our debates, that no to lead them to vote one side or the present or not, either by a new count. quorum voted on the vote just taken, other in sufficient numbers to make a or by tellers,' or by the call of the roll. I raise the point of order, that no fur- quorum..

Mr. MUSSEY. I raised this same ther business shall be done in commit- Mr. LONGYEAR. It is true that in question in the early part of the delibtee until a quorüm shall appear. I the House of Representatives in Con- erations of this Convention. I am surunderstand the rule to be that when-gress, when a vote is taken viva voce, it prised that the gentleman from St. ever it shall appear by any count, or is not a matter of any importance Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) should say that vote, or otherwise, that there is no whether more or less vote, because he never heard it raised. I think the quorum voting in committee of the there is no count in such cases. But question has been before this Convenwhole, no further business can be done always when there is a division of the tion several times, and it has been ruled until an actual count shall show a House, and the members voting are that the point of order was well taken... quorum; and also that no question counted, the Speaker of the House, or, Mr. CONGER.. I called upon the can be decided one way or the other in committee of the whole, the chair- gentleman from Ingham, (Mr. LONGunless a quorüm Shall vote. I think man never announces the question to YEAR,) to show that there had ever been that in this case it is the duty of the be decided if less than a quorum vote. a case in any parliamentary body where Chair to announce that no quorum After announcing the number voting because the vote did not show a quorum, voted on the last vote, in order that the on each side, if they do not make a that was considered of itself evidence. committee may take such action as they quorum, the presiding officer always that there was not a quorum present. may see fit.

makes the announcement, no quorum The gentleman' says that where there Mr. CONGER. In regard to the voting." Then under the rule of the is a division, and it is questionable

point of order raised by the gentleman House of Representatives the Chair whether there is a quorum present, the : from Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR,) I must orders tellers, if there is no objection. Chair can order a count. I have also

say that it is entirely new to me. I If upon the vote being again taken by said that myself. But I said that I · have never had the honor of being a tellers there is no quorum voting, then never heard that the mere fact that als

member of such high legislative bodies the rule requires that the roll of mem- quorum did not vote, was considered as the gentleman has. There may be bers shall be called. If upon the call an indication of itself that there was such a rule in the House of Represen- of the roll there shall still appear to be not a quorum present, and that, theretatives at Washington. Still, I have, no quorum, the committee rises and fore, the vote should not stand as a while sitting in the galleries of that reports to the House the fact that there vote of the committee of the whole, or House, repeatedly known questions to is no quorum."

of the Convention, as the case may be. be decided when there would be but The general parliamentary rule I The gentleman did not read any four or five, or eight or tén, yoting in understand to be this: I read from authority at all on that point. : the affirmative, and none in the nega- Barclay's Digest, quoting as he does Mr. LONGYEAR. If the gentletive; still, the motion was declared to from Hatsfield: ::

man will allow me, I will state what be carried.

"In general, the Chair is not to be taken the fact is, if he can take my state : Mr. LONGYEAR. Never, upon a

apo iinon a till a quorum for business is présent; upless ment. I state as the fact that the

after due waiting, such & quorum be del count.

spaired of when the Chair may be taken and 1 question 18 always raised, in such cases Mr. CONGER. When it appears the House adjourned. And whenever, during as that, by the presiding officer of the that there is no quorum present by any

business, it is observed that a quorum is not House of Representatives. He never

present, apy member may call for the House. I donlara legitimate modo o ascertaing the to be counted, and having found a deficit,

declares the question, if there is no fact, then the business of the body, business is suspended.”

quorum voting upon a division, no whether in committee of the whole or It is always considered in the House matter how many members may be not, must cease. But, it is apparent of Representatives as evidence that present. If no quorum vote, the preto us here, by more senses than one, that there is no quorum, when a quorüm siding officer states the fact that no a quorum is now présent. The mere fact does not vote upon a count. I do not quorum has voted. of members voting or not voting is no raise this question here for the purpose Mr. PRATT. I would inquire of way of testing whether there is a quo- of being captious or merely to be tech-Ithe gentleman how he is to carry out




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his point of order ? Suppose no quo- there was a vote taken disclosing the the meeting of the Legislature which rum does vote upon a count where the fact that there were sixty-one mem- I propose would give the Legislature :committee of the whole divides; how bers, present; you cannot make the the same amount of time between their

is the gentleman to enforce his point point any more apparent by calling for convening and the holding of the of order? What step is to be taken ? another vote upon this question, be- township meetings, that they had

Mr. LONGYEAR. It is for the cause it is perfectly optional with under the present Constitution. The committee of the whole to decide what members whether they vote or not. members of the Legislature desire to step they will take in order to obtain There is no rule requiring them to yote be at home when the township meeta proper vote. Any member can de- in committee of the whole, and you ings are held. I think that the time mand a call.or count of the members cannot compel the committee to rise from the second Wednesday in Janupresent, and if a quorum appear to be except by a majority vote.

ary to the first Tuesday in March would present, the vote must be again taken, Mr. LONGYEAR. The record be allowing too little for the members because no quorum having voted be- shows that there was less than a quo- of the Legislature to complete their fore, the question is not decided. If rum voting.. .

. . work, and be able to return home for upon a new count no quorum vote, Mr. DANIELLS. I would inquire the township meetings. I, therefore, then the same proceeding must be if the number voting on each side is offer this amendment in order to test gone over again, even if a quorum of not recorded in the debates ?... the sense of this committee upon the members be present. If a sufficient The CHAIRMAN. It is recorded in subject. number of the members present see fit the debates, but it is not entered upon Mr. P. D. WARNER. I do not ap- . not to vote in order to make up a quo- the journal.

preciate the importance of the amendrum, then business in committee of the Mr. DANIELLS. I have raised the ment suggested by the gentleman from :: whole must stop. It is for them to de- point before. As I supposed the num- Lenawee, (Mr. STOCKWELL.) I have termine whether they will do so or not. ber voting upon each question upon a learned from experience that members But if a quorum cannot be obtained division is recorded in the debates, I of the Legislature desire to be at home upon a vote, then the committee of the thought it would not show a very good when the warm weather comes in the whole must rise, go into Convention, record for us to have it appear that we spring, which is about the first of April, where members can be compelled to did business with less than a quorum not so much for the purpose of attendvote, I suppose; I do not know voting.

... ling the annual township meetings as how that will be. But it certainly Mr. MUSSEY. I have made the for the purpose of being upon their must be in the power of the Conven- motion that the question be again put, farms to attend to their other business. tion, when , a quorum is present, to and a new vote taken, because I thought I infer, therefore, that the effect of compel the members to vote upon the that was the easiest and the shortest adopting this amendment will only be : question one way or the other. .. way to settle the matter. I do not see to give us a session of four months for

The CHAIRMAN. Upon the last the difficulty which the gentleman from the Legislature each year, instead of a vote there were thirteen voting in the Hillsdalė, (Mr. PRATT,) seems to see. session for three months, which we affirmative and twenty-four voting in If we fail to secure a number equal to would be likely to have without the the negative, upon a division; being a quorum on any vote, and the mem- amendment. I cannot see any benefifourteen less than the number required bers refuse to vote, I think we can rise cial object to be gained by the adoption to constitute a quorum. The Chair fol- and go out of committee of the whole of this amendment. I hope that if we lowing what he had understood to be with less than a quorum. And then I are to have annual sessions, no system the general custom of the committee, believe there is a way pointed out by will be adopted by which those sessions declared the motion lost; he will, how- which we can secure a quorum when will be prolonged beyond the three

ever, take the advice or direction of we get into Convention, or if there is months ordinarily occupied by the. • the committee. If it shall be the de- less than a quorum, adjourn from day Legislature. sire of the committee, the vote will be to day,

Mr. FERRIS. Will the gentleman taken over again, or there will be a The question was then taken upon allow me to ask him a question ? count made, in order to ascertain if a the motion of Mr. MUSSEY, that there : Mr. P. D. WARNER. Yes, sir... quorum be present.

be another vote taken upon the amend- Mr. FERRIS. Have we not Mr. MUSSEY. I move that the ment of Mr. Bills, and the motion was changed the time for our township vote be taken again. agreed to. .

meetings, to the first Tuesday, in Mr. LONGYEAR. I do not desire to The question was accordingly again March? be placed in any other position upon this taken on the amendment of Mr. BILLS, Mr. P. D. WARNER. I présume *matter than that which I am willing to to strike out "second," before Wednes- that if it is necessary, the members of occupy. I do not raise this question day, and insert “first,” and upon a the Legislature would be able to take from any captious motive, or on account division it was not agreed to; ayes, a recess so as to permit them to ata of not being satisfied with the result 20, noes, 37. :

tend the annual township meetings, announced by the Chair; but in order Mr. FERRIS. I move that the com- and then return here for the discharge to have the rule settled in this case. mittee now rise, report progress, and of their legislative duties. As I said Mr. PRATT. I am opposed to the ask leave to sit again."

before, the only result of the amendmotion of the gentleman from Macomb, The motion was not agreed to.! :lment would be to add another month (Mr. MUSSEY;) that the vote be taken Mr. STOCKWELL. I move to to the ordinary session of the Legisagain. I cannot agree with the point amend this section, by striking out the lature... of order raised by the gentleman from word “January," wherever it occurs, Mr. CROSWELL. I desire to ask Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR.) We have and inserting in lieu thereof “ Decem- the honorable gentlemen from Oakland, no rule requiring a quorum to vote in ber." I offer this amendment in view (Mr. P. D. WARNER,) if the majority committee of the whole; we cannot of the fact that we have changed the of the sessions of the Legislature have compel a quorum to vote here. Still time for holding our township meet- been three months in length? Have it is perfectly apparent to every one ings, so that they will be held one they not been from sixty to seventy that a quorum is present. Three min-month earlier than under this present days since the adoption of the forty tes before the last vote was taken, Constitution. The change of time for day limitation? The gentleman speaks

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about the Legislature taking a recess to the amendment for another reason. view of that consideration that I suga for the March elections. In my opin- It seems to me that if the time should gested the change of time, so that the ion, if you give an intimation to the be changed to the second Wednesday Legislature might meet earlier than in Legislature that they may adjourn for of December, the Legislature would January.. the township meetings, and then come only have fairly commenced its work. The question was taken upon the back here again after the township before the Christmas holidays would amendment of Mr. STOCKWELL to strike meetings have been held, you will come, when there would probably be a out the word "" January," wherever it : probably have a session for four recess for ten days, or more. I think occurs in the section, and to insert in months. It seems to me to be better it would put back the work of the lieu thereof the word “December," and to provide in some way that the Leg- Legislature fully , three weeks. It it was not agreed to. islature shall terminate their session seems to me, also, that if the prop- Mr. BURTCH. I move to amend about the time they have heretofore ter- osition to hold annual sessions which this section by striking out the word minated it.

has been adopted by the commit- "second," before the words year Mr. P. D. WARNER. My recollec- tee, should be adopted by the Con- thereafter," and inserting in its place tion is, that the session of 1865 con- vention, then the months of January the word “twentieth," so that the sectinued for seventy-eight days. The and February will give ample time in tion will read, “ on the second Wednessession of 1867 continued for eighty- which to perform the work of legislators day of January in every twentieth year six days.

each year. But even if it should not, thereafter." Mr. CROSWELL. The Legislature I cannot see any reason, as has been Mr. WILLARD. I would inquire if .. of 1867 were in actual sesson for eighty remarked by the gentleman from Mon- the word "second" has not already two days.

roe, (Mr. MORTON,) why members been stricken out? Mr. MORTON. I do not see the of the Legislature should go home to The CHAIRMAN. That word was. necessity for making any change in attend the annual township meetings. stricken out on the motion of the genorder to accommodate members of the I do not think they are of sufficient tleman from Berrien, (Mr. COOLIDGE.) Legislature, and enable them to go importance to call members of the Leg- Mr. MUSSEY. Then I would raise home to attend the township meetings, islature home simply to vote or to elec- the point of order that the amendment : unless it is the fact that the majority tioneer at that time.

of the gentleman from Eaton, (Mr. of the Legislature are supervisors who Mr. BILLS. In a casual remark BURTCH,) is not in order desire to be reëlected. I cannot see which I made on a previous motion to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman : any reason in the world why they should amend, I alluded to the fact that it can make a motion to insert the word s not continue to sit here and attend to was desirable that the Legislature - twentieth," before the words - year :: their business.

I should close its session before the an- thereafter." ' Mr. M. C. WATKINS. I think per- nual township meetings. I did not say Mr. BURTCH. I make that motion. haps the reason which has been sug--so with any view that the members of The amendment of Mr. BURTCH was gested by the gentleman from Monroe the Legislature should go home and not agreed to. . (Mr. MORTON) may be a very good one. procure an election to some other No further amendment was offered It is very frequently the case that many office; or, that it was necessary for to this section. of the members of the Legislature have them to be there at all. I had POWERS OF EACH HOUSE, ETC. been, and may wish to be supervisors. this idea in mind; as there are changes. The next section was read as follows: As a matter of course they would want being constantly made in the law which SECTION 9. Each House shall choose its own to go home, and probably would go affected the elections held in the spring, |

officers, except as otherwise provided in this

Copstitution; determine the rules of its prohome to attend the township meetings, it is desirable that these changes

ceedings, and judge of the qualifications, and be there a few days before they are should be known to the electors elections and returns of its members, and held. It strikes me that in order to of the several towns in the State

may, with the concurrence of two-thirds of

| all the members elected, expel a member. No obviate the difficulty, it would be better before the annual township meet

member shall be expelled a second time for to adopt the proposition suggested by ings are held, so that they may the same canse; nor for any cause known to the gentleman from Lenawee, (Mr. act in accordance with the provisions

his constituents antecedent to his election;

the reason for such expulsion shall be en. STOCKWELL,) and have the sessions com- of the preceding sessions of the Legis-ter mence in December instead of January. I lature. It is, perhaps, a matter en-members voting on the question. ;

Mr. HENDERSON. After this is tirely immaterial when, or at what Mr. HOLT. I move to amend this done it will be necessary to change the time in the year, the session of the section by striking out the words sno year named in this section; the section Legislature is held. We desire to sub-member shall be expelled a second provides for the meeting of the Legis- serve certain convenient ends in the time for the same cause; nor for any ture in 1869. If the change is made as selection of this time. If there is suffi- cause known to his constituents antesuggested by the gentleman from Kent, cient time between the second Wednes-cedent to his election.” It seems to (Mr. M. C. WATKINS,) the year must day of January, and the township me that this clause contains not only a be changed, or the Legislature will elections in March, for a report of the useless proposition, but one that is enmeet in the last month of 1869, instead doings of the Legislature to reach the tirely impracticable. It is useless, for of the first month as proposed by the people in time to enable them to act the reason that there never can be any." section.

in accordance with the changes the danger that any member will be ex-. Mr. BARBER. I was about to make Legislature may have made, the whole pelled from either branch of the Legthat same remark; that if the amend- purpose is served, which we should islature without sufficient cause. It .. ment should be made to the section as have in viev in fixing the time. I seems to me that it is impracticable,:.


sion of the Legislature provided for the close of the session of the Legisla- the constituents could not be deteruntil two years from next December. ture would come $0 near the time of mined. I cannot imagine how the Therefore, by making the time of meet- holding the township meetings, that question could be determined; how it ing December instead of January, we inconvenience might arise in reference could be ascertained whether cause or ... would, in fact, be postponing the meet- to what was done in the previous ses- reason for an expulsion was known to ing for eleven months. I am opposed / sion of the Legislature. It was in the constituents of that member prior


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to his election. I cannot see how the I believe the only safe rule to be, that stitutents with all the opprobium the House can determine that question. the Legislature should possess at all Legislature could cast upon him, and At any rate, it could not be determined times the power to purge itself of im-, that constituency, knowing all the without a great deal of trouble and proper members; of persons who, for facts, have adhered to the determina- :: expense. Suppose a member is brought any cause, may be unfitted to occupy tion that he should still represent them. up before the House on certain charges; seats in the Legislature. I believe The only reason that can be given. if he claimed that the reasons urged there is no other safe rule than for striking out this clause is a want why he should be expelled were known that, and I do not gee why this clause of confidence in the Legislature, or of to his constituents before his election, was put in this section. This Con- confidence in the “very dear people," .I cannot see how that question can be vention ought to possess, and does about whom we have heard occasionproperly determined. At ariy rate, possess, the unlimited power of purg- ally and at rare intervals in this conịt must be shown that a majority of his ing itself of any obnoxious member, vention. :: constituents did not know those who renders himself by his conduct an In reference to this provision, proreasons, or the member would improper person to hold a seat here, hibiting the Legislature from expelling be retained in his seat. Not and the Legislature should be placed a man for any cause known to his cononly is it impracticable, but it in a position where it can do the same stituents antecedent to his election, it seems to me that it would lead to thing. Unless. I can see some good has been said that a man's habits may mischevious and injurious consequen- reason for retaining this clause, I shall be such as to render him unfit for å seat ces. Suppose there was such a pro- certainly vote to strike it out. The in the Legislature; he may be a drunkvision as this in the Constitution of the clause is as follows: “No member shall ard, and offensive and annoying to the United States; I cannot understand be expelled a second time for the same Legislature. I apprehend that objechow'a member could be expelled from cause; nor for any cause known to his tion would not be well founded. If a Congress for any cause, if he could find constituents antecedent to his election.” man had been a confirmed drunkard a constituency who saw fit to send him Now, I would like to know why, if there before his election, that would not prethere. Take for instance a member of is cause for expelling a member once vent the Legislature from expelling:

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of the south should send to Congress a should not be régarded as sufficient to a confirmed drunkard in his shop, or
person who was a known and avowed expel him a second time? If there is store, or office, or on his farm, it could
rebel, I cannot see how he could be an offense which justifies his expulsion not have been known before his elec-
expelled from Congress, if there was to-day, and he is sent back here to- tion that he would be a confirmed
such a provision as this in the Consti- morrow, should the offense again arise drunkard in the halls of the Legisla-
tution of the United States. I do not to-morrow, would it not be a sufficient ture. The drunkenness in the halls of
suppose that we would ever have such cause for his expulsion? I think that legislation would be a new offense,
a case in this State; still we cannot if an offense which was committed this which would bring the member within
tell what may occur before our Consti- year is good cause for expulsion, it the power of the Legislature. In re-"
tution is again changed. For these should be regarded as a sufficient.cause gard to the fact of its being known to
reasons I have moved to strike out this for expulsion if committed next year. his constituents, I think it is a matter -
portion of the section. .

I do not believe that this clause should concerning which proof can very readily Mr. FERRIS. I move to amend remain in this section. I might give be obtained. . the clause proposed to be stricken out other reasons, but I have given those A legislative body might, if not reby striking out these words, “nor for which are sufficient to control my vote strained, expel a man for his principles; any cause known to his constituents on this question...

... he might be obnoxious to them because antecedent to his election."..

Mr. CONGER. The provision which his principles were too liberal, or not The CHAIRMAN. The amendment it is now proposed to strike out of this liberal enough. But in this country of the gentleman from Kent, (Mr. section has been a provision in the we prefer to believe in the judgment FERRIS,) will be first considered, as it Constitution of this State from the be- and ability of the people to select their is to perfect the portion of the section ginning of our State existence; at all own proper representatives, to express which the gentleman from Muskegon, events, it was in the Constitution of their own particular notions in our (Mr. Holt,) proposes to strike out. 1835. It may not be necessary, in a legislative halls. A man may be sent

Mr. FERRIS. I desire to say a few State like ours, or under a government here who has heretofore been charged words upon my amendment. It seems like ours, to have such a provision. with and convicted of a crime, and to me that a legislative body has a Yet, acting as wé do in behalf of lib- been pardoned. His own immediate right to protect itself under all cir- eral principles and the rights of the neighbors might believe him to be in-. cumstances. If it should unfortunate- people, it might not perhaps seem very nocent of that.crime, and worthy of ly so happen that a constituency should proper to strike it out at this time. being sent here to represent their in send here a representative, who, from The origin of such a clause in the Con- terest. And yet the Legislature, if not any cause, by reason of mental disease, stitution of any government' arose restrained, might, upon the bare record or personal habits, should be'unsuita- under another form of government; it of his conviction, deem themselves conble to such a position, or be disquali- arose or had its culminating point in taminated by his presence and expel fied for the place, and he was really the English Parliament in the days of him. I do not propose to enumerate all unfitted to be here, it seems to me that Wilkes, who was expelled two or three these cases; but I can see very well why the Legislature should not have its times in succession for the same cause, the principle of this provison might

hands tied, so that it could not protect that cause being his professed love of very safely and properly be left in the " . itself, and expel such a member, if it freedom. That gave rise to such a Constitution, as we have had it hereto

should think proper to do so.. provision in our Constitution. I can fore. I cannot see how that can work any

Mr. - WITHEY. I am opposed to see no objection to it. E : injury whatever to anybody. I conthe amendment of the gentleman from I do not know why a män should be sider it right, if only as an assertion of Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) simply because I expelled from a legislative body a the rights of the people to elect their am in favor of the amendment of the second time for the same cause, when own representative; although he may, gentleman from Muskegon, (Mr. Holt.) she has once been sent back to his con- from his opinions, be obnoxious to:



other members of the Legislature, still desire to have a legislative body protect be expelled a second time, it would not
it is their right to send and keep him itself against such a man as I alluded be by the same legislative body, but by
to ?

& subsequent legislative body. :: Such a case, I consider, would very Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. The Mr. WITHEY. This clause may be rarely occur, perhaps not in the life-power of expulsion was not exercised applied to a person on the first effort time of a nation. But I can well re- in that case; the good sense of Con- for his expulsion, or on any subsequent member that a few years ago Congress gress prevented them from excluding expulsion which is sought to be had. undertook to expel a man whom we Mr. Giddings from a seat in that body. In either case, I apprehend that the ... now look upon as a very good man, I do not believe that power would be clause should not be retained in the merely for his opinions upon the sub-l exercised on any occasion under such section for the reason I have mentioned. ject of slavery. Congress did not ex- circumstances.

I hold that notwithstanding this clause pel him, but they passed a vote of Mr. WITHEY. I desire to say a may be in the present Constitution of censure, which, to an honorable man, word further. I think that the position this State, and in the Constitutions of was equal to a vote of expulsion. The taken by my friend from St. Clair, (Mr. other States, it never had any business member censured, although not ex-CONGER,) begs the question. - Accord- in any Constitution of any State in the pelled, resigned his place, and returned ing to this section, it would require a Union. I hold that under our form to his constituents. By the unanimous two-thirds vote of all the members of government, every legislative body vote of his constituents, irrespective of elected to the Legislature to expel one should have the power of purifying party considerations, without an op- of their number. It is not probable, it and purging itself, of allowing posing candidate, he was again re- is not possible, that two-thirds of all only such persons to hold seats turned to Congress. Suppose that the members elected to the Legislature who are qualified to exercise, that had been a case of expulsion, in- would vote in favor of expelling any and who do exercise, the duties of stead of one of censure? He is in his man for mere opinion's sake. That their office in accordance with their grave now, and I will mention his never has been done in this country obligations under their oath. I think name-Joshua R. Giddings, of Ohio: that I know of; I believe it will never it is perfectly safe to leave this matter Suppose that, instead of being censured be done. I believe no man will ever in the hands of the Legislature. In he had been expelled, and had been be expelled from the Liegislature, un- regard to the argument that a person returned to Congress? Under the rule less there is conduct on his part that may be expelled for mere opinion's .. which gentlemen desire to adopt here, would make him so obnoxious and so sake, I do not think that two-thirds of he might have been again and again, objectionable that he would be unfit to the members elected to any Legislature and again expelled, although all the hold a seat as a member of that body. I could be obtained to cast such a vote. people of his district would vote to | In no other case will two-thirds of the That is but casting an imputation upon return him to Congress as often as he members elected ever be willing to vote the intelligence of every Legislature was expelled. It is to be hoped that for the expulsion of a member. This that has convened or ever will convene such occasions, from such causes, will clause, if it applies to anything, applies in these halls. . never again arise in this country. But to cases where a person is wholly unfit Mr. MORTON. I see no harm in there are still human passions and to be a member of the Legislature, and retaining this provision in the Constihuman prejudices which will operate the Legislature ought to have the tution as reported by the committee. upon men, and the fact that a similar power to purge itself of such a member. There may be cases in time of high contingency might arise, it seems to Take the instance cited by the gen- political excitement when the majority me, makes it very proper that the tleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER.) might do that which they would not do rights of the people, and of a minority, A person may be sent to the Legisla- in their-cooler moments. We have should be guarded here. I : ture from one of the legislative dis- seen such things in Congress recently,

Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. I hope tricts of this State who is a confirmed when Mr. Brooks was excluded from the amendment now pending may be drunkard. That habit follows him his seat, but was afterwards triumphadopted. I respond most heartily to wherever he goes, and he is unfit to antly returned by the people of his the remarks made by the gentleman sit in any deliberative body; he is a district, I remember when in 1853 from Kent, Mr. WITHEY.) I think nuisance to that body, and delays its King Strang of Beaver Island was every deliberative body should have proceedings by his habit of intoxica- elected a member of the Legislature .' the power to protect itself against the tion, during the session of the body of this State. Some of his constituintrusion of men who are unfit to be Upon investigation it is found that he ents wanted him arrested for crime, but admitted into that body. I do not see ought to be expelled and he is expelled. the Legislature would not expel him any force in the remarks of my friend He is sent back to his constituents, and because the crime alleged against him, from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER.) It is a at the next election that constituency was known to his constituents before right which every deliberative body has return him again to the Legislature. he was elected. They desired to have to protect itself, and no constituency. It is said that because that constitu- him arrested by the sheriff, but the has a right to impose upon any delib- ency knew his habits, knew that he Legislature refused to permit it to be erative body a man who is obnoxious was a man of such extreme intemper- done. A committee was appointed by to them, or whose conduct or senti- ate habits that he was disqualified for the Legislature who examined the parments in the body render him obnox- his position, therefore they should be liamentary law in England, and they ious. I hope the amendment may be allowed to return him to the Legisla- found that members of parliament were adopted. I think it will improve the ture. In that case the Legislature protected from arrest during the sessection very much. I think it will must be compelled to submit to the sion of the Parliament, and for so long ;.

leave legislative bodies with power to will of the people of one representative before and so long after the session. :protect themselves against the intru- district, and be forced to submit again. They found that they could not tako

sion of men unfit to hold seats in such to the presence of such a person. action as his constituents desired under bodies.

Mr. FERRIS. Will my colleague al parliamentary practice. Ho (Strang) Mr. CONGER. I desire to ask my low me to ask him a question?

certainly was as obnoxious a person venerable friend from Oakland, (Mr. Mr. WITHEY. Certainly.

as could well be selected to send to the VAN VALKENBURGH,) whether he would! Mr. FERRIS. If that person should Legislature of Michigan.

Vol. 2No. 8.

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