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pose upon him a duty in the Legislature in their behalf, which shall require him perhaps to neglect, for the time at least, his official duties in regard to the whole circuit?

Mr. GIDDINGS. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him a question? Mr. LOVELL. Certainly.

care of that matter for themselves. In terday on this subject. There was, a new county it may often occur that a however, one thought which I had inman holding the office of county clerk, tended to give utterance to at that time. who is called upon only now and then As the question has come up again, to perform some duty, may be the very I will state it now. It is this: the man the people desire to send here, for officers mentioned in this section, and he may be better acquainted with the concerning whom it is proposed to say wants of that new county than any that they shall not attempt to disother man in it. Now, shall he be ex- charge the duties of legislators for the Mr. GIDDINGS. Is there any such cluded on the ground that his duties as State of Michigan, while at the same proposition before the Convention as county clerk demand his immediate at- time they are under obligation to dis- that which the gentleman now makes, tention all the time? Is that the fact? charge other duties which are deemed in reference to circuit judges? Is it a fact, that even in the old coun- incompatible with the duties of legis- Mr. LOVELL. I speak of it as ilties the presence of these county officers lators, those officers are, in a majority lustrative of the principle advocated is necessary all the time, when they of cases, chosen to the offices which here by some gentlemen. If you may have deputies and clerks who can in they hold by diffent constituencies from take a judge of probate, who owes a nine cases out of ten execute the duties those they would represent in the Leg-duty to a large constituency, and say of the offices as well as they them- islature. The argument is often made that a single representative constituselves? It seems to me that this is a here,-let the people have their own ency may take him to serve them in far-fetched reason; in my judgment it way, let them take care of their own the Legislature, then you may carry is not a very satisfactory one. I may affairs. And we are asked the ques- the principle further, and apply it to be wrong; but to me the argument has tion, cannot the people be trusted? circuit judges; and you can carry it not the force that it seems to have with Now, in order not to be considered still further and apply it to any State other gentlemen. I find that other invidious, I will go to my own county officer. Now, would it be proper that States are able to get along without for an illustration of this subject. I the auditor general for the State of excluding this portion of their popula- shall then, perhaps, tread upon the toes Michigan, for instance, having been tion from their legislative halls. of no gentleman here. Our county elected by a constituency that comI hope this Convention will not has three representative districts, and prises the whole State, shall be allowed adopt this section. Should it be adopt- would hereafter be entitled to send to be chosen by any representative or ed it would, taking the State all over, three representatives to the lower house senatorial district, to represent their exclude a great many of our best men of the Legislature, if the present ap- special interests in the Legislature, from holding seats in the Legislature portionment should be continued. Our when his legislative duties would be The only reason that has yet been pre-judge of probate, chosen, of course, imcopatible with his duties to the whole sented to the Convention for this ex- like every other judge of probate, for State? clusion is, that the duties of these of- four years, and therefore not elected Now, there is certainly no dearth of ficers, are incompatible with the duties at every biennial election, has a con- talent in this State of Michigan. I am to be performed in the House of Rep-stituency consisting of the whole not disposed to boast at all of the resentatives and in the Senate of the county, embracing the three representa- State of Michigan. Perhaps I have State Legislature. I cannot so under- tive districts. Now, I ask, with what no right to do so; I am one of her stand it; I cannot perceive what propriety can it be said that the people younger sons by adoption. But there was the original cause for such a of one of these districts shall take that is certainly no dearth of talent in this provision as this. It evidently grew judge away from the discharge of the out of some fear that some of these of duties which he has agreed to perform ficers might exercise some power in for all three of the districts, and send securing fees and emoluments. It was him here to discharge the duty of a suggested to me yesterday that some representative for one district alone? county clerk, if allowed to come to the I may make the same argument in reLegislature, might get his fees as gard to all our judges; for when we county clerk increased. I cannot see come to consider the article on the juthat. I think he would come here sub-dicial department, we shall find that ject to the same disadvantages which the same persons, or some of them, who I suggested yesteday would surround now ask that this restriction shall not a regent of the University, should he come to the Legislature. He would have to fight all the Legislature upon any such point, because he would be supposed to have come here for that very purpose.

State. The people will be served in the Legislature somehow. And as we have said virtually, by the amendment which has been made to this section, that a man may be elected to the Legislature to serve after his term in some other office shall expire, we shall always be able to get the experience of these men who are going out of these other offices. I present this idea because I think there is force in it.

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be continued in the Constitution, will It may seem to some here that the say that our judges are just the men offices enumerated in this section, are who ought to come to the Legislature. not incompatible with the duties to be Now, no one will question that they are performed in the Legislaturè. If we a class of men most desirable to have cannot convince the Convention that in the Legislature; I mean that they holding a seat in the Legislature, and I hope some member of this com- possess that kind of talent which would at the same time holding one of these mittee will give some substantial be of great advantage in the Legisla- offices, require the discharge by the reason, aside from this argument of ture. And gentlemen will say that we same person at the same time of duties incompatibility. If no other reason must not exclude the judges from the which are incompatible, then there is can be given, I would ask if that is a Legislature, because the people should no use to argue the question. There sufficient and satisfactory reason for be allowed to send just whom they are some here, I had almost said, it were excluding so large a number of persons please. Now, I ask, if in our circuit, from seats in the Legislature, if the after our judge has been chosen by us people desire to send them here? to serve the whole circuit in a particuFor my part, I think not. lar capacity, it is fair and just to allow Mr. LOVELL. I do not propose the single representative district in to re-state the argument I made yes- which he may happen to reside, to imVol. 2-No. 5.

vain to attempt to convince, because it is vain to attempt to convince a man against his will, or against his interests. But I will not say so.

The gentleman from Saginaw, (Mr. MILLER,) has said that there is no

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No amendment was offered to the section.

SESSIONS OF THE LEGISLATURE. The next section was read as follows: SECTION 8. The Legislature shall meet at the seat of government on the second Wednesday of January, in the year one thousand eight hundred and sixty-nine, and on the second Wednesday of January in every second year thereafter, and at no other time or place,

danger in allowing these officers to excluded from holding a seat in the I never have heard before that it meant come to the Legislature, because most Legislature. And I have no doubt that anything else. of them are elected upon the same the committee on the judiciary departticket upon which members of the Leg-ment will report a provision, that judiislature are elected. Not the most of cial officers, except justices of the peace, them by any means; they are not shall not be eligible to seats in the Legnominated by the same constituencies, islature. I have, therefore, not said as I have already remarked. The a word on that subject heretofore. But superintendent of schools for the it has seemed to trouble the gentleman county is certainly elected upon a dif- from Genesee so much, that I thought ferent ticket, and is elected at the it better to make this explanation. spring elections. And, as was said by Mr. MUSSEY. Will the gentleman the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. allow me to ask him a question? CONGER,) yesterday afternoon, that officer, of all the officers named here, ought not to be away from his county at the season of the year when the Legislature meets. That is just the time when he can be doing the most good for the schools of the county.

Mr. GIDDINGS. Certainly.
Mr. MUSSEY. Does the gentleman
claim that if this section is stricken out,
judges of the Supreme Court will
not be eligible to the Legislature?

The

unless as provided in this Constitution.
time of meeting shall be at eleven o'clock in
the forenoon, and the time of final adjourn-
ment shall be at twelve o'clock, noon.

Mr. COOLIDGE. I move to amend this section by striking out the word second," before the words "year Mr. GIDDINGS. I suppose that the thereafter;" so that that portion of the article to be reported by the committee section will read, "on the second on the judicial department will exclude Wednesday of January in every year all the judges of all the courts from the thereafter." I do not propose to make legislative department.

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If gentlemen desire to bring the collectors of internal revenue, assessors, postmasters and United States officers generally, to run the Legislature of the Mr. MUSSEY. But so far as this State of Michigan, then do so. But article is concerned, they would be as regards these other officers named eligible, if this section was stricken out. in this section, do not allow an injury Mr. GIDDINGS. So far as this to be done to one constituency, simply article is concerned, they would be in order that a person may be allowed eligible; but the article on the judito serve another constituency in the Legislature, unless you really think there is a dearth of talent in this State, and there cannot be found other men qualified for that purpose.

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ciary department will undoubtedly
make the necessary provision in the
matter.

The question was then taken upon
the motion of Mr. MILLER to strike out
the section, and upon a division, ayes
14, noes not counted, it was not agreed
to.

MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE PRIVILEGED
FROM ARREST, ETC.

The next section was read as follows:
SECTION 7. Senators and Representatives
shall, in all cases, except treason, felony or
breach of the peace, be privileged from ar-
rest. They shall not be subject to any civil
process during the session of the Legislature
or for fifteen days next before the commence-
sion; they shall not be questioned in any
other place for any speech in either House.

ment and after the termination of each ses

any remarks whatever upon this motion at the present time; but I have thought it proper to test the sense of the Convention upon the question whether we should have annual or biennial sessions.

Mr. LAWRENCE. I rise for the purpose of stating here what I believe to be the almost universal sentiment of the people that I represent. They look for annual sessions of the Legislature; I have never heard any other opinion expressed by them. So far as I am acquainted with public sentiment I believe they expect annual sessions, and deem them necessary for the prosperity of the State.

Mr. BURTCH. That is the univer

sal expression, so far as I have heard, of my constituents. They feel as though the great and growing interests of the State of Michigan demand annual sessions of the Legislature. I believe it is for the best interests of this State to have annual sessions.

Mr. WALKER. The gentleman from Saginaw, (Mr. MILLER,) I understood to say, that there was no danger that a man would be a candidate on the same ticket for two offices at the same time. I, like that gentleman, have great confidence in the people, and believe that they will generally select those men whom they think best qualified for any particular office. But I can suggest to that gentleman a situation that would be rather an anomaly, and perhaps the people would not be quite satisfied with it after it was accomplished. Mr. T. G. SMITH. In addition to Suppose that a man should be nomiwhat has been stated by other gentlenated for prosecuting attorney by one men, I desire to say that those of my party, and the other party should take constituents whom I have heard express up the same man for member of the any opinion on the subject, expect Legislature, and he should be elected that this Convention will provide for to both offices. I never heard of such annual sessions. I do not know that a case in connection with the Legislathere is anything more than expectature; but in the town in which I live, tion on their part. My own judgment only last year, the people elected the is that the necessities of the State resame man for supervisor and town in this section? quire it. I think the past experience clerk. Why should not such a thing Mr. CONGER. The provisions of of this State shows that we ought happen in the election of members of this section are the same as those in to have annual sessions of the Legisthe Legislature, and other officers, if the present Constitution, and I believe lature. There are a great many interthis section should be stricken out? in the Constitutions of other States. ests in this State which would have Mr. GIDDINGS. I desire to say I do not know that I could decide ju- been benefitted by more frequent sesone word in the way of explanation. dicially what the legal construction of sions of the Legislature. I think that In regard to the judge of probate, the this section would be. I think it is the subject of extra expense is but a gentlemen from Genesee, (Mr. LovELL,) not altered at all from the section in mere trifle. I think that it would be has had a judge of probate in his eye the present Constitution. I suppose better to shorten the length of the sesfor several days past. Now, I desire that it is meant to apply to the time sion somewhat, and have them more to say right here, that my impression while a man is actually acting in his frequently, than it would be to have is, that a judge of probate should be capacity of Representative or Senator. longer sessions, and have them once in

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Mr. THOMPSON. I desire to ask the chairman of the committee on the legislative department, (Mr. CONGER,) a question in regard to the effect and intention of this section. I desire to inquire if Senators, for instance, who are elected for four years, are privileged during that entire term, from arrest in all cases except those specified

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ture. that there would be any question in Mr. LUCE. I differ with the chair- I have not as much faith in the Legrelation to the propriety of annual man of the committee on the legislative islature coming here and accomplishsessions of the Legislature. So far as department, (Mr. CONGER,) and with ing some great good, as some gentleI have heard any expression of opinion the majority of the committee am in men seem to have. I have had the in relation to this question, I can say, favor of biennial sessions of the Legis- honor of serving in both houses of the as the gentleman from Ingham, (Mr. lature. As has been stated by the Legislature, and I know something LONGYEAR,) has said, that I have never chairman, the committee was first in-about the manner of legislation. I be hrard any person express himself satis- clined to favor annual sessions; but lieve we shall have just as hasty and legislation, if we have islature. We are differently situated eration, and full review of all the facts annual sessions, as we have ever had here in this State from what they are and circumstances pertaining thereto, with biennial sessions. I hope that

*fied with biennial sessions of the Leg-after a full discussion and full consid- incons shall have just as hasty and

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the amendment of the gentleman from Berrien (Mr. COOLIDGE) will not be adopted. I know that my constituents do not desire it, and I believe that is the desire of the constituents of a great many other gentlemen here.

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Mr. LOTHROP. I was once very

Thursday,

great disadvantage to the public and to sessions or annual session. But when the State. Those who have most to do you retain the Legislature, as the with the laws, see the most of these re- highest body for making laws in the sults; whether it be the tax collector, State, you must confer upon that justice of the peace, or the lawyer, it body a liberty adequate to the power makes no difference; the result is evi- conferred upon them. Mr. LONGYEAR. I hope that no dent to them. It seems to me that I am in favor of having the Legisla one will consider that my location has with annual sessions, the evil to which ture meet every year, and of allowing any influence upon any suggestions of a I have referred will be very much them to sit as long as they may congeneral character that I may make in mitigated. sider necessary. If they fail to make regard to the Constitution we are framsuch legislation as should be made, ing. It is very true, as the gentleman earnestly opposed to annual sessions; that is a part of the price which we from Branch, (Mr. LUCE,) has sugges- I thought biennial sessions would be a pay for our form of government. I ted, that a portion of my constituents very great benefit to the State of Michi- hope that the amendment will prevail; would be interested in having annual gan. I was at one and the same time that we will have annual sessions, and sessions of the Legislature here in in favor of biennial sessions of the that the Legislature will be left to sit Lansing; there is no doubt about it. Legislature, and of limiting the length as long as they may think proper. But I think it rather an unfair way of of the session. I confess that my own Mr. P. D. WARNER. I do not arguing, to throw up to a gentleman experience has not confirmed the know that I would have been inclined on this floor, the fact of his location as soundness of that opinion. My judg- to enter upon this discussion at all, but a reason against his argument. ment now is, that it is better to have for the reference made by the gentleThe gentleman has asked for any annual sessions, and leave the Legisla- man from Wayne, (Mr. LOTHROP,) to good reason why we should have annual ture unrestricted, as to the time they the manner in which legislation has sessions instead of biennial sessions. may sit, when they come together. The been heretofore conducted in this One strong reason, in addition to those Legislature of the State is the body State. which have already been given, is this; that is to ordain our laws. Whether Mr.LOTHROP. I only stated what we will have about so much legislation we shall have wise legislation or not, I did from information which I had any way, whether we have the Legisla- will not depend upon the number of received; I have no personal knowledge ture meet once a year or once in two times they meet; or upon the length upon the subject. I may have been years; there will be just about so much of time they shall sit. It must depend misinformed; if so, the gentleman will legislation in either case. The question upon the character of that body. If correct me. is whether you will have your legisla- the character of the body shall be im- Mr. P. D. WARNER. The information tion from time to time as it is currently proved, the character of their legisla- is perhaps mainly correct; but the reason needed, and have it done in two ses- tion upon questions connected with the assigned for the manner in which bussions, and deliberately and well di- Legislature will be improved. At all iness was done, is erroneous. I believe gested, or whether you will wait two events, whatever its character, under that it has been the practice for all legyears and crowd it all into one short our system of government, it is the islative bodies that have convened in session, and thus have the crude legis- fount from which we must receive our Michigan, after having been together lation which we have had for the last legislation. Whether expensive or not, for about ninety days, to be anxious to seventeen years? Who that has been a it is the price that we pay for the form be relieved from the restraints of legmember of the Legislature-I have not of our government. islation, and permitted to return to had that honor, but I have had some- We gain nothing, so far as I can see, their homes. During the last session thing to do with the result of the work by biennial sessions, and we gain noth- of the Legislature, business was crowdof those who have had who does not ing by limiting the time of the session. ed upon the House of Representatives know that with the best experience and Indeed some of the faults of legislation, to such an extent as to require, I will talent in our Legislature and we have whether justly or not, are attributed to admit, a little extra effort on the part had much of talent there and much of the fact that the period of the session of some of the officers of the House, experience-who does not know that is limited. I am told by a gentleman in order to dispatch the business under subjects of legislation are so crowded here that during the session of last consideration. Several bills were acted upon them, that it has been impossible winter, for the want of time, bills were upon together; but I think it was with to give those subjects that degree of stacked together by the dozen, and the full concurrence of every member attention, and have the work of legis- passed by a single vote. Now, whether of the House, that that rule was lation so well digested, as is desirable unshackling the Legislature will cure adopted. I think that the journal of in the construction of laws, especially such abuses as that, I do not know. our proceedings will show that the when those laws must stand for two But the Legislature should have no forms and requirements of the Constiyears without the possibility of amend- excuse for such abuses, in the tram-tution were fully met, in the passage of ment? mels imposed upon them. every bill that passed the House of Representatives..

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Mr. LOTHROP.

I say that one great and good result I do not believe that we limit the to be accomplished by having annual amount of legislation by having biWill the gentlesessions, will be the greater deliberation ennial sessions. The British Parlia- man allow me to ask him a question? with which legislation may be accom- ment sit every year; the Chamber of Mr. P. D. WARNER. Certainly. plished; and the fact also that it will Deputies in France sit every year. Mr. LOTHROP. Does the gentlebe had at the time when it is needed. Yet the bulk of our legislation in two man suppose for a single moment, that In this way we will avoid the crowding years is larger than the bulk of legis- if the fact be as I now understand him of the business of two years into one, lation in the British Parliament. Pre- to concede, and if the journal of the and then into a short time of session. cisely as we improve the character of House of Representatives properly In this way we will avoid the crude that body will we improve the legisla- stated that fact, one single one of those legislation which has resulted from bi- tion of that body, and in no other way. bills could stand before a court, as ennial sessions during the last seven- You may impose all the restrictions having been constitutionally enacted? teen years, and which has been of you please, as to time, and to biennial

Mr. P. D. WARNER. That ques

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amendment will not prevail.

tion I do not propose to determine; I to the government of our action here. parallel, having such extensive agriculleave that for others better skilled in If any great interests of the State are tural, manufacturing and mining interjudicial affairs. But the point to which likely to suffer in consequence of a ests, that we demand more frequent I desire to call the attention of the want of legislation, it is proper, and meetings of the Legislature than we have gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. LоTH- by the Constitution that we propose to had during the past seventeen years. I ROP,) is this: that from my understand- adopt, it is within the province of the believe that our most enterprising men ing of the provisions of the present executive, to convene the Legislature feel that our interests demand more Constitution there are no limitations whenever he pleases; and for the space frequent meetings of the Legislature. whatever upon the length of the ses- of twenty days the members of the I do not know what the large body of sions of the Legislature. They may Legislature receive compensation for the people think upon this subject; I convene on the first Wednesday in their services. Therefore, even with do not know that they have given any January, and they may continue until biennial sessions, there is no opportu- very special attention to it. But I the two years of the term of members nity for any interests of the State to know that in our section of the State expire; and there is nothing in this Con- suffer from the want of suitable legisla- the men of character, enterprise and stitution to prevent them from draw- tion. business, are all of the opinion that we ing their per diem for the whole time. Therefore I am opposed to the ought to have annual sessions of the But after the expiration of the first amendment; I am opposed to author- Legislature. And although, as I have fifty days, they cannot introduce any izing the convening of the Legislature said, I was formerly of a different new matter for consideration, except oftener than once in two years, because opinion, I have yielded to the arguin some round-about way which is I believe no essential good can result ments which those men among my practiced sometimes. I consider there from it. And more than this, I believe constituents have presented to me, and is no limitation upon the time during the people of the State of Michigan at shall vote in favor of annual sessions which the Legislature may be in session large do not desire and do not expect of the Legislature. I desire to say that I am opposed to it of this Convention. I hope the Mr. WITHEY. My judgment is enannual sessions of the Legislature for tirely in accord with the opinion exthis reason: from the experience I have Mr. WILLARD. Idesire to say that pressed by the majority of the gentlehad in matters of legislation, I am soon after our arrival here, when this men who have expressed their views led to the conclusion that we now have, subject was first talked of by members upon this subject. I have never been and always have had, more legislation of the Convention, I was inclined to in favor of biennial sessions; I never than is desirable for the interests of the opinion that we had better retain have thought it was the part of wisdom the people at large. Convening the biennial sessions. But upon my return to have sessions of the Legislature onLegislature in annual sessions instead home during the last recess, in conver- ly once in two years. I am in favor of of biennial sessions, will not only not sation with some of our prominent annual sessions, and for the reasons obviate the difficulty we now labor un- men, reasons were presented in favor which gentlemen have expressed in this der, but will increase it, in my opinion, of annual sessions which have very Convention. Without repeatin those just to the extent that we multiply the great weight with me. I was inclined reasons, I will only state that I shall times for the Legislature to meet. to give force to the argument which vote for the amendment of the gentleIt is a complaint all over the State, has been presented by the gentleman man from Berrien, (Mr. COOLIDGE.) so far as I am informed, that our laws from Oakland, (Mr. P. D. WARNER,) Mr. HENDERSON. I have but a are too changeable; that they are the argument of economy; and also word or two to say; I have but very changed too often. Laws are passed the argument which has been pre- little feeling upon this subject. I think at one session of the Legislature, and sented by other gentlemen, that legisla-myself, that had this matter been are amended or repealed at another tion would be excessive. submitted to the people of this Staté, session, before the people hardly know But there is no doubt but what a without any argument to convince them what are their provisions. It is pro- great share of our legislation at pres- that annual sessions were necessary, and posed by this amendment that these ent, with biennial sessions, is taken up had they been left to be governed by laws shall not be permitted to stand with retrospective acts. Our State is the experience of the past, they would even eighteen months, as they would rapidly increasing in wealth and popu- have furnished us with a large manow be required to stand, without an lation. For the past few years most of jority in favor of biennial sessions. extra session of the Legislature; but our municipalities have felt themselves This may be because a large portion of that six months after their adoption compelled, under the pressure of cir- our voting population have given the the Legislature shall again be con- cumstances, to transcend their powers, matter but very little thought, except, vened, for the purpose of amending, and then to wait for the meeting of the perhaps, so far as relates to the subchanging or repealing those laws. I Legislature to legalize their acts. Iject of expense; that may be true. believe that by the adoption of this know that last winter a large share And those who would vote for annual amendment, we will only accumulate of the time of both branches of the sessions would, perhaps, be the men legislation, and increase those of which the people of Michigan are sideration of bills to legalize the past matters which would exercise a connow complaining, and have been com- action of different municipalities, which trolling influence in the decision of plaining for years, without any in- would not have been needed if we had this question. I think, however, creasd advantage. had annual sessions of the Legislature, arguments presented by the gentleman And there is another consideration, affording an opportunity for those from Branch, (Mr. LucE,) with referone of dollars and cents. The inter- municipalities to obtain the necessary ence to the inconvenience to which our ests which I represent are somewhat legislation for the performance of those people would be subjected by annual connected with this question of taxes; acts which they desired to perform. sessions the common people, I mean, although I do not consider it one of I believe, Mr. Chairman, that our for I do not have reference to lawyers great importance as relates to the vital State has such diversified interests, ex- and others, whose attention is called interests of the State. But I believe tending, as it does, from between the to the different acts of the Legislaturé this question should be taken some- forty-first and forty-second parallel because of their profession-I think what into consideration, in reference of latitude to nearly the forty-seventh the argument of the gentleman from

the difficulties Legislature was taken up with the con- better calculated to judge men

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