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Had no members of this Convention roe has stated; that this delay was for gone to the printing office, and said the purpose of giving members an opany thing to the printers, it is probable portunity to examine their speeches then let us dispense with the publica

enable us to fulfill that engagement. If we cannot have them for that purpose, that the debates and proceedings would before they were finally printed. The tion of them altogether. I would as all have been up by this time. I told foreman did not state definitely to me soon have a last year's almanac to read, the foreman, when I went away, that that they might have been up with the as these debates published and laid beunder the circumstances, as members debates, and would have been, but for fore us, six months after their delivery. wished to have an opportunity to this delay to accommodate members. We want to have them now during the correct the reports of their debates, He did not state that any member had progress of the business of this Conprobably it would be best for him to requested the delay, but, as I under-vention. Mr. BURTCH. I differ with my go on with something else to com- stood him, the debates had been deplete the Manual of the Convention, if layed for the purpose of giving mem- friend from Lenawee, (Mr. BILLS.) he could, during the recess. bers an opportunity to examine the I think these debates ought to be pubproof sheets. I hardly think the lished, and if they cannot be furnished printer needs this spur, and still I am in time for the people of the present not tenacious about this resolution. day, they can be furnished for future ages. [Laughter.]

I do not think the resolution offered should be adopted. I hope the mover of it will consent to have it laid on the table until he can visit the printing office himself, and ascertain exactly how the matter stands.

Mr. BLACKMAN. I have no objection to any course being adopted with the resolution, either by laying it on the table, or disposing of it in any other way. I offered it in order to bring the matter before this Convention, to ascertain if there was any reasonable excuse for this delay.

Mr. COOLIDGE. For the purpose of avoiding further discussion on this subject, and believing that the committee on printing will look after this matter properly, I move to lay the resolution on the table.

The question was taken upon the motion to lay the resolution on the table, and upon a division there were ayes 24, noes 15.

Mr. DANELLS. That, I believe, is not a quorum. Does it not require a quorum to vote ?

The PRESIDENT. No quorum has voted; the Chair will put the question again.

The question was again taken upon the motion to lay on the table, and it was not agreed to, upon a division; ayes 25, noes 26.

The resolution was then agreed to.

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Mr. BURTCH. It seems to me that it is assuming considerable responsibility for members thus to undertake PUBLISHING ABSENTEES IN THE JOURNAL. to impede the public business. Gen- Mr. BLACKMAN. I offer the foltlemen will bear me witness that I lowing resolution: came in here and made a little talk Resolved, That the Secretary of this Consome time ago; but I did not go downvention be directed to cause to be printed daily, in the journals, the names of absentees, to the printer and ask him not to print distinguishing between distinguishing between them as follows: the proceedings before I could see First, The names of abeentees on account of them, for fear there would be some-sickness. Second, Of those absent with thing wrong. If there is anything leave, for other causes. Third, Those absent wrong in my speeches hereafter, I will Mr. PRATT. I move the resolution see about correcting them. be laid upon the table.

Mr. BILLS. It will be recollected

without leave.

The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.

BILL OF RIGHTS.

Mr. MUSSEY. I move that the Convention now resolve itself into committee of the whole on the general order.

The motion was agreed to.

by many members of this Convention, who will revert in their minds to the time of our adjournment, that our debates were then some twelve days behind in their publication. The excuse which is now urged for the delay in their publication, certainly could not have been an excuse for the tardiness The Convention accordingly resolved previous to that time; because members were here then, and could have itself into committee of the whole, (Mr. corrected their speeches without delay. PRINGLE in the chair,) and resumed the What the members of this Convention consideration of general order No. 11, desire, is, that these debates be pub- being the article entitled "Bill of lished, and put upon our tables, within Rights." a day or two after they occur. It was thought that could be done when we entered into this contract. If we are not to have them delivered to us in that way, then for one, I should almost desire to discontinue their publication altogether. If the printers are is as follows:: to fall behind at this rate, then at the The PRESIDENT. The Chair will conclusion of our session here, there state that, should the resolution be will be nearly one-half of our debates adopted, it would by its terms carry unpublished. If they are to take until The gentleman from Wayne (Mr. the whole subject to the committee on the next winter months for the publi- MCCLELLAND) had offered an amendprinting. cation of the debates, and to publish ment to the section, to add the words, Mr. NORRIS. Then I withdraw them in the absence of all the mem- "to be paid or secured as shall be prothe motion to refer, and will let the bers, we will have no guarantee of their vided by law." To that amendment question be taken upon the resolution. correction. Members certainly will not the gentleman from Berrien (Mr. ALMr. THOMPSON. I desire to state remain here for the purpose of correct- EXANDER) moved to add the words, that I called, as a member of the com- ing their speeches, and our reporters" and such compensation shall be withmittee on printing, at the office of the would be unwilling to do so. We out any deduction for benefits to any State printer yesterday. I do not un- might as well discontiue altogether the property owner."

The question recurred upon the

resolution.

Mr. NORRIS. I move that the resolution be referred to the committee on printing.

PRIVATE PROPERTY FOR PUBLIC USE. The CHAIRMAN. When the committee last had the article entitled Bill of Rights," under consideration, it had proceeded therein as far as section twenty-three of that article, which

"The property of no person shall be taken for public use without just compensation therefor."

derstand that the gentleman from publication of these debates, as to have The recollection of the Chair is, that Monroe, (Mr. MORTON,) has called them published in this manner. We the amendment of the gentleman from there since his return. I called there are under obligation and engagement Berrien, was entertained as an amendto ascertain the cause of this delay, to send these debates from time to time, ment to the amendment of the gentleand was informed by the foreman sub- to a neighboring State, and I desire man from Wayne. It seems, however, stantially as the gentleman from Mon- that they shall be published, so as to to the Chair, that it does not neces

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law."

On page 131 will be found, section fourteen of the article entitled "Miscellaneous Provisions," as follows:

"The property of no person shall be taken for public use, without just compensation

therefor. Private roads may be opened in the manner to be prescribed by law: but in every case the necessities of the road, the amount of all damage to be sustained by the opening thereof, shall be first determined by a jury of freeholders, and such amount, together with the expenses of proceeding, shall be paid by the person or persons to be bene

fited."

There is another section also bearing upon this subject, in the article entitled "Legislative Department."”

Mr. MCCLELLAND. My amendment is taken from section fifteen, article fifteen of the present Constitution. That section provides that "the compensation therefor shall first be deterpensation therefor shall first be determined by a jury of freeholders, and actually paid or secured in the manner prescribed by law."

sarily relate to the matter embraced in the order of the owner of the property. paid or secured in the manner prescribed by the amendment. If there shall be no My impression is that the objection the question will be first "secured," is a good one to be used in taken upon the amendment proposed this connection. by the gentleman from Wayne. The Mr. MUSSEY. I think there is anChair stated it the other way, because other reason why the amendment of the gentleman who was acting as the gentleman from Wayne should chairman of the committee of the prevail. I will say that I hope the whole, so entertained it. amendment of the gentleman from No objection being made the ques- Berrien will not prevail. The reason tion was considered as being upon the for the amendment now pending is amendment of Mr. McCLELLAND. that, in laying out public highways, Mr. McCLELLAND. I will state or private ways, the damage may be briefly the reason why I offered this assessed, and the owner of the propamendment. I understand that the erty may take exception to the amount Legislature have in several cases au- of the damage allowed. Hence, it thorized the taking of property, with- could not be paid before the propout compensation therefor being paid erty is taken possession of, because the in advance. I believe that is the rule amount of the damage is not settled that prevails now in this State in re- between the parties. Therefore, ungard to telegraph companies. My less the amendment prevails, the owner object in offering this amendment is to of the property, by appealing from the obviate that evil, and to prevent that amount allowed, may delay and precourse being pursued hereafter. At vent the road from being established first I proposed to use the word "paid," for an almost indefinite time, and that, simply; but on consultation with one too, when it might be quite essential or two gentlemen in reference to this for the public convenience. But, when subject, I thought that perhaps it would the compensation is secured, the road be better to say, "paid or secured," may be constructed, and the amount Mr. McCLELLAND. There is an• because in many cases it is impossible of damage can be settled by the court, other section which will be found on to pay in advance of taking the prop- if the owner of the property chooses page 128 of the Manual. erty, on account of the owner of the to take the question there. Mr. PRATT. I thank the gentleproperty being absent from the State, Mr. GIDDINGS. I alluded par- man for referring me to that section. par-man and in many cases not being known ticularly to the damages allowed in the It is section two of the article entitled even to those who take the property. case of railroads; I did not allude to "Miscellaneous Provisions," and is as Whether in such a case as that, a leg-any other cases. islative enactment authorizing this Mr. MUSSEY. I desire to have money to be paid into court for the them all included. benefit of these parties, would be suf ficient, I am not now prepared to state. If that should be done, as a matter of course that would be a payment. I have no objection myself to having the

words"

Mr. PRATT. My recollection is that there is another section bearing upon this subject; but I do not have upon this subject; but I do not have

it before me at this moment.

follows:

"When private property is taken for the use or benefit of the public, the necessity for using the same, and the just compensation State, shall be ascertained by a jury of twelve therefor, except when to be made by the freeholders, residing in the vicinity of such property, or by not less than three commissioners, appointed by a court of record, as shall be prescribed by law."

Mr. PRATT. This subject is found in the present Constitution in three different articles; in the article on corporations, in the article on the legislative department, and also in the article entitled "Miscellaneous Provisions." The committee on the bill of rights, did not deem it wise to go into this The committee on the bill of rights after consulting with the chairmen of matter of detail, but thought it better erty of no one should be taken without the committees having in charge those to leave that entirely to the respective compensation paid in advance. various articles, concluded that they committees who had that matter in would confine their labors to the sim

or secured" struck out, if any member has any particular objection to them. My opinion is that the prop

This provision is to supply the place of three different provisions in the Constitution of 1850. As my amendment relates to the condensation of one of the provisions in the Constitution of

ple announcement of a fundamental charge. They thought it better for us principle, and leave the matter of details simply to make the announcement of fundamental principles, similar to that to be carried out by the respective in the bill of rights, and the Constitucommittees that have this matter in 1850, I have thought it best to propose charge. I understand that all these tions of the various States. It will be the manner in which the taking of prop-case. I would prefer to have this secmatters in regard to compensation, and and make them such as will meet every erty shall be determined, will be pro- tion remain as it is. vided for by the three committees to whom I have alluded. It will be found that we now propose simply to incorthat in the present Constitution the

ted it. I should object to the amend-
ment of the gentleman from Berrien,
(Mr. ALEXANDER,) as proposed to my
amendment, because it is legislative in

its character.

Mr. GIDDINGS. I was about to

Mr. BILLS. It will be understood

suggest that, under the present practice details occupy considerable space. For porate a provision in the bill of rights.
instance, by reference to page 124 of
It seems to me that the section report-
as established by the law, when a party the Manual, section fifteen of article ed by the committee, embraces all that

owning property is absent from the
State, a tender of the payment can be

made, and a court can direct what shall
be done with the funds, or the "dam-
age money," as it is called. I believe
it is generally directed to be deposited
in some banking institution, subject to

fifteen, the present Constitution pro

vides as follows:

"Private property shall not be taken for public improvements in cities and villages, compensation therefor shall first be deterwithout the consent of the owner, unless the mined by a jury of freeholders, and actually

is needed on that subject. I suggest whether it is not sufficient to cover all the principles in the former Constitution? It announces a principle which shall govern our Legislature; that no property shall be taken from a private individual without compensation. I

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would be satisfied to leave that as the sole provision to be embraced in the Constitution upon this subject; and to leave all the details which we find in the present Constitution, and which may be needed upon the subject, to be provided for by the Legislature. This section reads

"The property of no person shall be taken for public use, without just compensation

therefor."

"Provided, The foregoing provisions shall of commissioners of the highways, in the official discharge of their duties as highway

in no case be construed to apply to the action

commissiouers."

the compensation is paid. I take the give my note for it, in law the property
ground that we have no right to take is paid for. Then if, in carrying out
possession of any man's property with- the details of this provision by the
out due compensation being actually Legislature, it shall be deemed desira-
paid previous to taking possession of ble to provide that property shall be
it. That is the ground I take. If we taken before the money is paid, still
assert a principle, even in the bill of provision could be made by which the
rights, we should couch it in such per- payment of the money should be se-
fect language that the humblest under-cured to this individual. If it was the
standing in the community may know property of a non-resident, and he is
what it means.
not accessible to the authorities who
desire to take the property, provision
might be made by the Legislature that
the money for the property shall be
deposited, or its payment secured, sub-
ject to the call of the non-resident, or
to the call of the party who might not
be accessible at the time the compen-
sation might be due. All that, how-

Mr. PRATT. I desire to say one word in reply to the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND.) He says that he understands this section is to be the only provision on this subject in the Constitution. I think the gentleman is not authorized to make that statement. I understand from the

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This is a perfect enunciation of the principle which we desire to recognize as the governing principle to control our Legislature. To express this in the bill of rights is, in my judgment, sufficient for all purposes of the Constitution; leaving it for the Legislature to make such provisions, and such details of methods by which compensa- consultation I have had with the gen- ever, I would leave to the Legislature; tion may be granted for property thus tleman from Allegan, (Mr. WILLIAMS,) I would put no part of it in this Contaken, as to them shall seem wise. who is chairman of the committee on stitution. It seems to me that the With that view, I greatly prefer to re- miscellaneous provisions, that it is the principle which the gentleman desires tain this section precisely as it now intention of that committee to report to have established is fully secured by stands without any amendment. a section which shall cover this entire the language of this section, as it now Mr. McCLEELAND. We have had ground. That is one reason why the stands. I think the qualification of a great deal of difficulty in regard to committee on the bill of rights con- it, as he proposes, does not provide this subject in cities and villages in tented themselves with simply an- more satisfactorily for carrying out the this State, as is well known to all mem-nouncing the principle found in the recognized principle that no property. bers of the legal profession. In con- Constitution of the United States. I shall be taken without being paid for, sequence of that difficulty there was think the matter of detail also belongs than does this section as it now stands. inserted, by an amendment submitted to the committee on cities and villages. Mr. MUSSEY. I would ask the to the people by the Legislature, the Mr. MCCLELLAND. Will the gen-gentleman from Lenawee, (Mr. BILLS,) following provision in the present Con- tleman allow me to ask him a question? a question before he takes his seat. I stitution, to be found on page 129 of Mr. PRATT. Certainly. would inquire of him if, without some the Manual: Mr. McCLELLAND. I would ask such amendment as is now proposed, the gentleman what is the use of divid- any such provision for paying as he ing up this matter, and putting it in has suggested would be deemed a paythree or four different sections, as we ment under the law? did in the constitution of 1850? That says that just compensation shall be I understand that the section now very thing has tended to confuse the paid therefor. I take it that a man is under consideration is the only provis- Legislature, as I am informed, leading obliged to accept nothing as a payment ion on this subject there is to be inser- to grave difficulties upon this subject. except lawful money of the United ted in the Constitution of 1867, in lieu Mr. PRATT. In reply to the in-States. Mr. BILLS. The language of the of some three or four different provis- quiry of the gentleman, I would say ions scattered through the Constitution that in framing a bill of rights, my section is, that the "property of no of 1850. I think, therefore, it would idea is that we should confine ourselves person shall be taken for public use be well for us to fix it with so much to the announcement of fundamental without, just compensation therefor." certainty that there can be no mistake principles, and leave the matter of Now, it is perhaps a somewhat nice made in regard to it by the Legislature. details to be determined upon by the question whether compensation can be I ask, then, why not incorporate here respective committees to which they anything short of legal tender. Mr. MUSSEY. Exactly. substantially the same provision that is properly belong. Mr. BILLS. I think the Legislacontained in the Constitution of 1850, Mr. BILLS. The gentleman from in regard to cities and villages, and why Wayne referred to the position taken ture would find no difficulty in pronot extend that to all the rural dis- by myself in regard to this matter; and viding for the compensation, inasmuch tricts, as well as to the cities and villa- inquired if this should not be so plain as this section does not prescribe, the ges? that the humblest individual may fully specific time within which that payMy friend from Lenawee, (Mr. comprehend it? In reply to the gen- ment shall be rendered. The LegislaBILLS,) says that he considers this sec- tleman, I would say, that it seems to ture may so adjust the law in regard tion, as it stands in this article, all that me no qualification is needed in order to it, that the compensation for the we need. I would ask the gentleman to simplify it. It reads: "The propwhen this compensation is to be paid? erty of no person shall be taken for The compensation may be fixed by public use without just compensation virtue of an act of the Legislature. But therefor." The very language of the when is it to be paid; before you take section itself recognizes that principle; possession of the property, or after you recognizes precisely the view which the take possession of it? As I understand gentleman takes; that no property shall the law now in regard to telegraph be taken until paid for. companies in this State, those compa- But here the question might arise, nies take possession of property before how paid for? If I buy a house, and

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property of non-residents for instance can be deposited beforehand, or the security for its payment made beforehand. That is a question about which gentlemen might differ. My own conviction would be that the Legislature could make such provisions.

Mr. MUSSEY. I think the supreme court would make more trouble than the Legislature.

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Mr. HENDERSON. My opinion is that the experience of the past has demonstrated the fact that there is a necessity for some such provision as is contained in the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Wayne, (Mr. MCCLELLAND.) Yet at the same time Mr. PRATT. The gentleman, I beI do not think we want to incorporate lieve, is a member of the committee on such a provision in the bill of rights; I phraseology, and ought to be able to believe there is a place for everything answer that question himself. If there of that kind. I believe, also, that if is anything wrong about the phrasethere is any portion of the Constitution ology of this section, I would be glad in which we should content ourselves to have it corrected, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair finds with the simple enunciation of funda- Mr. WILLARD. I think that would upon the files two articles, entitled mental principles, it is the bill of rights. be useless, and I move that it be struck «Elections," one reported by the maI believe the details governing these out. jority of the committee on elections, cases can be provided for in the article and the other reported by the minority on miscellaneous provisions, or in the of that committee. There is also on article on legislative department, or in the files an article entitled "Legislative some other article more appropriate for Department." it than this. In this article we should content ourselves with the simple enunciation of the principle that property shall not be taken without compensation. I hope, therefore, that this, section will be allowed to remain just as

Mr. WITHEY. I want to suggest, in reference to the amendment of the gentleman from Wayne, whether it would not be better to leave this section to stand just as it was reported to do. by the committee, in view of the fact Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. Irise Mr. MUSSEY. I was about to obthat it is in precisely the language of for the purpose of sustaining the jeet to passing over the article on the the Constitution of the United States; amendment proposed by the gentleman military department. It is a short and whether there is anything gained from Calhoun, (Mr. WILLARD,) to strike article, and unless there is a necessity by inserting the words proposed by out the word "therefor." The word is for the chairman of that committee to him? In Article V of the amendments perfectly superfluous, is of no use, and be present when it is considered, I of the Constitution of the United I hope it will be stricken out. States will be found these words: Mr. WALKER. While we are en"Nor shall private property be taken gaged in correcting the grammar of for public use without just compensa- this section, I move to correct the tion." That is the language of the grammar of the amendment, so that Constitution of the United States, will read "stricken out," and not and it is substantially the language of "struck out." this section. This reads, "The property of no person shall be taken for public use without just compensation therefor." It seems to me that we cannot enlarge the principle by the language which the gentleman proposes to add to this section. It appears to me that the Legislature will have power under the section as reported by the committee, to do all that they could do with the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Wayne.

The question was then taken upon the amendment of Mr. MCCLELLAND to add to section twenty-three the words,

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tives to which such county is entitled by law, ferent rule should be adopted in regard Secretary of State, and clerk of such county, to a county from that adopted in rea description of such representative districts, gard to a city. Practically there would specifying the number of each district, and be no inconvenience whatever in dividing a city into representative districts, its own boundaries and sub-divisions for municipal purposes rendering it at least as easy of division as a township and a county. In accordance with a principle which the committee have adopted, and which, with the exception referred to by the gentleman from Wayne, has been the controlling prinThe CHAIRMAN. The opinion of ciple in the State for years past, that the Chair is that the rule of the Conis, having representation by single disvention cannot be suspended in comtricts as far as may be, the committee mittee of the whole. The rule of the This section will then read as does left out of this section the provision of Convention requires that each article the corresponding section in the Con- the present Constitution to which the shall be read through, before it is read stitution of 1850. The provision was gentleman has referred. It seems to by sections for amendment. The only adopted in the Constitution of 1850, as me that it is more in accordance with way to secure the object proposed by I understood at the time-although I the general system sdopted for other the gentleman from Oakland, (Mr. P. D. was then residing in a different county parts of the State. It seemed to the WARNER,) would be for the committee from the one in which I at present re- committee that it was perfectly practito rise, report to the Convention, and side-because of the unity of interest cable, and that it would inure to the

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