turnpikes." I will state briefly my rea- take the responsibility of proposing half an inch of my eyes. [Laughter.] sons for offering this amendment. The them in their proper places, and let But the proposition which has been principle of the section having been them stand or fall on their own merits. read to us this morning, is entirely and adopted by the committee, I am anxious The gentleman from Kent, (Mr. FER- absolutely a distinct proposition from to make it as little objectionable as RIS,) admits that his proposition has the one now under consideration. His possible to the opponents of the prin- nothing to do with this branch of the proposition relates entirely to taxation, ciple of local aid, who are disposed to subject. He is not in favor of this sec- while this relates solely to credit. Now fall in with the action of the majority tion; he has opposed it vigorously and the friends of this particular measure are of the committee of the whole. incessantly from the beginning. He not discussing the question of taxation; I desire to have this amendment has a pet proposition in favor of plank they are not discussing the question of made for two reasons; the first is, lest roads and gravel roads; and I have no plank roads or gravel roads; they are hereafter some Legislature, to which objection to his having a section which not discussing the question of mills or applications may be made for authority shall provide for them in any way he manufactories or bridges. The gentleto a township to grant aid to a plank chooses. But I cannot tell why he man from Kent (Mr. FERRIS) has proroad, might be led to infer that none should want, like the cuckoo, to lay posed a new proposition, which is not but railroads could be aided in that his egg in our nest, and ask us to hatch embodied in this at all. He desires way, because none but railroads were his bantling. It has no connection that we shall share with his pet promentioned in this section; to infer from with this subject, it is a distinct and jects a portion of the credit which the the fact that railroads being specified independent proposition. He has no friends of those measures seek to apply here, therefore that plank roads, gravel right to take for his purpose any of to railroads alone. I will go with the roads and turnpikes, were excluded by the ten per cent. which we ask for our gentleman for any separate proposireason of not being mentioned. Con- particular purpose. But the object he tion, to authorize townships to assist in ceding the proposition of gentlemen, building plank roads and gravel roads; that heretofore the Legislature have they are improvements which townhad power to do all these things, beships may well give aid to. If he will cause there was no restriction in our introduce an independent section for present Constitution, still when we We have here a proposition which that purpose, I will join hands with him come to put in a restriction, and spec- was reported by the committee on the in carrying through such a measure, ify one thing, that specification, after legislative department, and which has if it be desirable. But he is not in such a controversy as we have had been amended by the committee of favor of the principle, as he has told here whether such aid should be allow-the whole. The section as amended this committee, of aiding any of these ed at all, might give grounds for a has been printed in the journal. Now, internal improvements by taxation or reasonable argument that the Legisla- I ask gentlemen to look at that section by credit. It does not weaken his obture was prohibited from authorizing as amended, and say whether it does jection to the principle to divide and any municipality to grant aid to any not embrace all proper restrictions in fritter away this aid among a variety other corporations than those specified of things, to all of which in my opinion by name in the section itself. he is opposed.

has in view must be that the young
cuckoo shall throw the other fledglings
out of the nest, and get all the spoils
for itself.

regard to granting aid to railroads, all the restrictions which a majority of I believe that plank roads and gravel this committee desire? I ask whether This section as it now stands, I beroads, in the northern part of this it is necessary to have this section now lieve is satisfactory to its friends; I State, are fully as important to the altered and amended, or twisted and have heard no complaints against it. people there as railroads. They can changed, until its parentage shall be It is satisfactory to those who, for difobtain them long before they can ob- doubtful, and its own friends cannot ferent reasons, have united in favor of tain any railroads; and in order that recognize it, by such amendments as this particular restrictive section of the they may have the benefit of this aid, those proposed by the gentleman from Constitution. So far as I can judge with the necessary legislation, I desire Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) and others? I do the friends of this section are satisfied to have them specified here. Now if not think it is fair, any such warfare with it, with the amendment which was gentlemen answer me and say that, be- as this in committee of the whole or adopted yesterday, submitting the cause plank roads, gravel roads and in Convention. Those who have dis- question of such aid to the city or turnpikes are not specified in this sec-tinct propositions of their own should township to be affected thereby. This tion, the Legislature will be left to make them and stand by them, and section involves a question of pledging authorize the granting of aid to any let them stand or fall on their own credit; the question of pledging credit amount they may see fit, then I say I merits. I say that if the gentleman in aid of railroads, and not of other want the same limitation applied to from Wayne, (Mr. LOTHROP,) desires a improvements. I say here now, as I them that is applied to railroads. It proposition which shall authorize townseems to me that such a limitation is ships and cities to vote any amount of as just and reasonable in the one case as in the other Gentlemen will bear in mind that this limitation is not upon the power to tax and raise money immediately, to pay for these roads; but the limitation is upon the credit to be given, the debt to be incurred for payment at a future day. For these reasons I am anxious that this amend- I say that in the section for which ment should be made. we are contending, the sole question It is now proposed to so amend this Mr. CONGER. I would feel under involved is one of credit; that is all section, that it will defeat the object great obligations if gentlemen, who there is of it. It involves that ques- had in view by those who favored the have independent propositions which tion of indebtedness against which the section. It is proposed to make amendhave no necessary connection with the gentleman spoke so zealously and pa- ments to it, which will defeat and weaone contained in this section, would thetically, that it brought tears within aken it, and drive its friends from it.

money by direct tax, in favor of rail-
roads or anything else, he certainly
has the liberty, I might almost say the
manhood, to bring forward his propo-
sition and let it stand or fall on its
own merits, and not intermeddle with
the proposition which we desire to
pass.

said yesterday, that those who desire this particular subject matter to be incorporated in the Constitution, may just as well take their stand one time as another; because if this section with all the restrictions and limitations which the committee of the whole have placed in it, is not now satisfactory to the enemies of the measure, there is no proposition that can be satisfactory to them.

!

Now, such guerrilla warfare is all of those cases. I wish to say, for the now, that I have opposed the principle proper; I do not deny the right of any- benefit of the gentleman, that I do not of this section until overborne by the body to attack this section directly or assume any control here over him or majority of this committee. I was inindirectly. It is a system of attack anybody else. I do not think it neces-clined to yield, and was content to acwhich I believe is acknowledged to be sary that he should attack me and de- cept the principle contained in this legitimate in all legislative and delib-nounce me, as he has done upon three section, as the settled policy of the erative bodies. I find no fault, there- or four occasions, because I assert my State for the future. I did not supfore, with the manner of the attack, or own opinions. I stand or fall by my own pose that the gentleman from St. Clair, with the different propositions made sentiments and by myself. And to say (Mr. CONGER,) would undertake to preto defeat this measure. But I have also that I attempt to control others, or to vent those who have honestly opposed the right to request the friends of this dictate to others, is not the truth in re- his proposition from now sustaining measure to stand by it as it is. How gard to my practice here. I wish the it, and while doing so, endeavoring to does the section as amended now read? gentleman to understand that I express improve it, if possible, so that they can It reads as follows: my opinions for myself, for which carry it out in good faith, when they "The Legislature shall not authorize any opinions I am responsible. I make find that this is to be the settled policy city or township to pledge its credit for the these remarks here, lest it should be of the State. I do not make any proppurpose of aiding in the construction of any railroad, to an extent whereby the outstand- thought that I assumed anything of osition to amend for the purpose of ing indebtedness, exclusive of interest, on that kind. I desire to express my own embarrassing this section; I deny any account of aid to any and all railroads opinions and my own wishes, and for such charge. shall exceed ten per cent. of the assessed It was uncalled for and valuation of such city or township. No them I am responsible. I deny the unwarranted. county shall be authorized to pledge its implication that I desire to control credit for any such purpose except in the others in their judgment or in their

+

Upper Peninsala. The question of such aid shall be submitted to a vote of the city or township to be affected thereby.

action.

Mr. FERRIS. I rise more for the

ment.

Mr. DANIELLS. I want to offer an amendment, and I would be glad to hear the gentleman make some remarks on it.

Mr. FERRIS. In a moment.

Until to-day we have been assured purpose of explanation than of arguthat the addition of the last provision in this section would give satisfaction: to those who were not so much in favor of the ten per cent., but who would be satisfied with it, if the question could be submitted to the people. That has been inserted here; it is favored by Mr. DANIELLS. I think the genmany members, and acquiesced in, ap- tleman from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) has parently, by others. That amendment already spoken once on this question. has now been made to the section, and The CHAIRMAN. If any other it is now in such a form as it was as- member desires to speak, the gentleserted would be satisfactory. For my-man from Kent will not be in order to self, if the amendment of the gentle- make further remarks at this time. man from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) should Mr. DANIELLS. I desire to speak be adopted, I would rather the section so far as to offer the following amendshould be lost. I do not know but what I should consider it better that no section at all should be put in the Constitution, but that the whole matter should be left to the Legislature hereafter, to do as they may choose. A restriction which is utterly worthless, by dividing up the little per centage allowed here among all other improvements, is of no use to the friends of this measure. I submit to gentlemen who are either themselves in favor of this Mr. FERRIS. Yes, it is quite charmeasure on principle, or who have pro-acteristic of my friend from Clinton, fessed themselves willing to join us because it is a restriction-I submit that when we have arrived at a fair proposition, upon which we have agreed and united, for the purpose of aiding as well as for the purpose of restricting, Mr. FERRIS. I said I was glad there comes a time when we ought to that the gentleman had introduced it; carry out that understanding, and I do not accept it. My friend from St stand by our section.

The principle contained in this section is the granting of local aid to railroads; that is the principle of the section. But that which was denied on the one side, and contended for on the other, was the right of the Legislature to authorize townships and cities to vote aid to such corporations. But that principle being established by the vote of the committee so far as it relates to railroads, it certainly can do no harm to apply the same principle in other cases. Nor does it follow that, because a man is desirous of applying that principle to other cases, he is acting in hostility to the principle itself.

My friend from St. Clair suggested that I should introduce an independent section. Why? This section introduces the principle of local aid, and ment to the amendment of the gentle- recognizes its existence; it confines it, man from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS;) to add it is true, to railroads. I understood to his amendment the words "slab my friend from St. Clair to say that by roads, saw dust and corduroy roads." loading down this section with the Mr. FERRIS. I am glad that amendment I propose, we should make amendment was introduced. it objectionable. I cannot for the life Mr. BURTCH. I hope the gentle- of me see wherein that would be so. man will accept the amendment. It is in no way likely that a plank road Mr. DANIELLS. I thought the is going to run along or near the line gentleman would be pleased with it; I of a railroad in the same township. hope he will accept it. That class of improvements will be built in other parts of the State. And the fact that the Legislature is authorized to empower towns in one portion of the State, to grant aid to plank roads, will not conflict at all with raising the requisite amount of aid for railroads in other parts of the State. If there is such a strong and determined objection, as is urged by the imaginary friends of this section, to my proposition, that it is going to embarrass them in the adoption or application of their section by having the proposition I have introduced incorporated into it, I have no objection to putting it somewhere else. But I do not understand that, because I have opposed the principle of local aid, I

(Mr. DANIELLS.)

The CHAIRMAN. Does the Chair understand the gentlemon from Kent, (Mr. FERRIS,) to accept the amendment?

Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) has charged me
with others, with engaging in a sort of
guerrilla warfare against this section.
I think he had better transfer that
charge to the gentleman from Clinton,
(Mr. DANIELLS,) and some of the other
friends of the proposition of the leg-
islative committee.

Mr. FERRIS. Mr. ChairmanMr. CONGER. I have not finished yet. The gentleman has arisen in several instances, immediately after I have made remarks here, to say that what I have said is not the law of the land, and should not determine his netion. I have memoranda of several I stated yesterday, and I state again | am to be excluded from taking part

Mr. MCCLELLAND. Suppose there has been a levy of ten per cent. for a railroad, and the tax has been levied, collected and paid, and the township is not indebted a single farthing; does he understand this section to preclude the issuing of bonds again by that township for another ten per cent.? Mr. LONGYEAR. Certainly, they can issue them, after the first have been paid.

Mr. MCCLELLAND. Does this section limit the aid to ten per cent. for all time to come?

Mr. LONGYEAR. No. Mr. MCCLELLAND. Then, if I understand the gentleman, ten per cent. may be levied this year, and a tax raised, and that ten per cent. paid off. Next year they may levy another ten per cent, which they can pay off. And so they can go on, so long as they can keep the township out of debt beyond the limit of ten per cent.

this whole scheme, is not an unfamiliar body else in this Convention shall one to my ears. In that body, where submit any other proposition. Has he for four years during the great rebel- any right to assume that a particular lion, I was honored with a seat, when- proposition, as presented by himself ever any project came up which was or anybody else, is the form which distasteful, to certain gentlemen, the shall finally be adopted by this comchanges were rung upon that word mittee of the whole, or by the Con"debt," to their full extent. But still vention? Let me say that the gentlethis government went on, and piled up man would feel justly offended if I debt upon debt, and debt upon debt, should assume that he had organized until it exceeded the enormous sum of a ring, and that they had prescribed three billions of dollars! But since the form which was to be adopted, and that time, we have seen that debt rap- that nobody else was to be permitted idly diminishing, and taxation dimin- to move any amendment to it; I say ishing at the same time. Who is he would be offended if I should say frightened at the cry of debt now, that. And yet his language almost when a little pittance of ten per cent. forces that idea upon us, when he turns on the valuation of property is asked around to those whom he claims are for internal improvements? When we with him upon this subject, and says see the vast recuperative energies of that they must stand fast against any this country, its exhaustless resources, assault; and when he says that any its enormous debt diminishing to such amendment, although offered in good a rapid extent as not only to astonish faith, is laying an egg in his nest. I ourselves, but to utterly bewilder and do not suppose that he intends, by Mr. LONGYEAR. I have no doubt confound the statesmen and financiers of any means, that he has any organizathat would be the construction of this the old country, shall we be frightened tion which it is a sort of sacrilege, or section. I was going to make some off from building our own railroads by dishonor, or insult, to interfere with. remarks upon that very proposition. the cry of "debt," when the amount Yet his language would seem to imply Gentlemen opposed to this measure of that debt is limited to ten per cent.? that. He specifically refers to several seem to argue this question as though It seems to me that our experience for of us when we have moved amendthis provision was, in and of itself, the last few years has been such that ments which he calls assaults, and an imposition of a tax, or of a debt that cry ought not to have been raised, wants to know if we have not the manupon the townships; as though the or, at all events, it ought not to frighten hood to present those propositions separately, and keep them away from people who were to be taxed were us when it is raised. to have nothing to say upon the sub- Mr. LOTHROP. I came into the this one. Now, if I understand our positionject. Or at all events that the section Convention yesterday morning, intendauthorizes the Legislature to impose ing further to discuss this general and if I do not, I want to understand this indebtedness, year after year; that question, if I might do so without it-this is a deliberative body. Any as often as the debt shall be paid off, trespassing upon the Convention be- proposition which is brought up here the Legislature may impose it again. yond what I thought due to propriety. is presented for deliberation, considerWhy, sir, the whole question is left But a vote which was taken early in the ation, and correction; and it is not to with the people; by the amendment morning showed to me, as I then be considered as finally settled until which was adopted on yesterday, thought, that there was so strong a the last and final vote shall be taken the question is so left by an express majority of this Convention in favor of upon it, either in the committee of the provision of the Constitution itself; the general principle of authorizing the whole or in the Convention. I have so therefore, there is no possibility of this pledging of credit for this purpose, viewed the matter, have so acted, and matter being taken out of the hands of that I would not be justified in further have felt myself at liberty both to vote the people. If the people, after they speaking and simply consuming the for amendments and to offer them myhave once incurred an indebtedness time of the Convention; a thing which self; and it was with that view only and paid it off, are well enough satis- I would not allow myself to do at any that I moved the amendment which I fied with the enterprise, with what they time, when I was aware of it. But I offered this morning. shall have gained by the former indebt did not thereby give a tacit pledge even I said the other day that I was irreedness, they can incur a like indebted- to myself, or an implied pledge to any vocably committed against the idea of ness for a new project, or to aid still body else, that I in any manner accept- towns lending their credit for any such further the old one. And whose busi-ed the proposition before the Conven- purpose. I said still further then, as ness is it but their own? It is just the tion. I had on the previous day ex-I say now, that if any such method is same as in any other business transac- plicitly stated my objections to the admissible at all, it is a method by tion. If I shall have gone into busi- whole of these propositions. To those which the town shall determine what ness in one line of business, commer- objections I still adhere. I intended money it has to spare for such a purcial or otherwise, and shall have incur at the proper time to bring before the pose, what money it feels itself capared a large indebtedness, and I shall Convention certain modifications of ble of devoting to such purposes, and have paid it off, and thereby rendered this measure. I do not intend to ask then, precisely as an individual would myself richer by the enterprise, and time to speak upon those propositions, do, take that money from its funds it out. pay another enterprise of the same kind but merely to submit them to a vote of and I avow that to be my offers itself, whose business is it if I the Convention. judgment; and I desire at the proper enter into that one? Would I not be I do not understand that the learned time, and I intend at the proper time, considered a foolish man, if I had the chairman of the committee who has to bring that proposition before this opportunity and did not improve it? reported this article, (Mr. CONGER,) and committee, and before the Convention, has taken charge of this particular sec- and let them vote upon it. I am not tion, has any right to assume that no- responsible for their disposition of it;

Sir, this cry of debt! debt! debt! which has been raised here against

but I am responsible for bringing the matter before them, and I intend so to do.

ted sovereignty. That was the point,
and the only point, decided in the case
of "Swan vs. Williams."

been decided: that even where a State takes stock in a corporation, the fact that it so takes stock does not make Let me say still further, while I am It is true that the judge who de- that corporation a public corporation, upon the floor, as I have been referred livered that opinion, in the delivered but it still remains a private corpora to by gentlemen here, especially on opinion, not only decided the point tion. Therefore, had I said to the yesterday by the gentleman from Ing- involved, but he did something more. Convention directly, that a railroad ham, (Mr. LONGYEAR.) He assumed In his discussion he used language corporation was a private corporation, that I had misled the Convention on which we technically call "dicta," and I should have been correct in a technia point, where I would have no busi- which went beyond the point involved, cal sense. ness to mislead them, because it was to and laid down certain positions that be presumed that I knew whereof I are not correct. He did say, as was was speaking. He said that I had read here yesterday, that this class of misled the Convention in asserting corporations, for certain purposes, that a railroad company was a private ought rather to be called public than and not a public corporation. I did private corporations. But he did not not use the word "corporation" at all decide any such thing. The only point in my remarks in that connection, nor in the case was, whether the State of were my remarks directed to that end Michigan must exercise eminent doat all. The committee will remember main directly, or whether it could that I was speaking to this point; I delegate it to a corporation known as was saying that railroad enterprises the Pontiac railroad company. The were no part of the purposes for which court decided that that power could townships were organized; that town- be delegated, and such had been the ships were organized for governmental decision long years before. purposes, and to exercise that portion

But let me say further; I affirm that of government which is committed to it is well settled that a railroad comthat portion of the governmental or- pany is a private corporation. Now, ganization. I said that matters of lest I might be supposed to be in errailroad enterprise were matters of pri-ror on that point, I refer to a standard vate enterprise. I was drawing a dis- text-book. I could refer to other tinction between that class of powers standard text-books; but I refer to a which relate to government, and that common standard text-book on this class of functions which relate to in- subject, "Redfield on Railways," from dustrial and trading enterprises. If I which I read as follows: was not very successful in my illustrations, the committee will remember at least how earnest I was in the illustration which I made on this subject.

But what I did say, and what I repeat to-day, is that a railroad corporation is not to be classed as exercising those powers which are committed to the fundamental organization of towns; namely, the exercise of certain governmental powers. I repeat again that railroad corporation is an organization for industrial, trading, or commercial purposes, and in that view it is strictly a private concern. It is entirely true that, for the exercise of the right of eminent domain, it is deemed that such a corporation may exercise that right, when delegated to it by the State. It has in its operations or objects, enough of public interest or public benefit to receive that delegated power.

Did I not say to the committee the other day, that no man could exceed my ideas of the importance of railroad corporations for the public interests? I recognize the advantages of these corporations. I state this by way of explanation, so that I cannot be said to have misled the committee at all.

Mr. CONGER. Will the gentleman allow me to make a single inquiry? Mr. LOTHROP. With great pleas

ure.

Mr. LOTHROP. I shall best answer the gentleman by reading the note, whatever it is.

"Railways in this country, although common carriers of freight and passengers, and in some senses regarded as public works, are ordinarily private corporations. By private corporations nothing more is implied than I now repeat that the propositions that the stock is owned by private persons. Mr. CONGER. I would inquire which I then asserted are unassailable, If the stock is owned exclusively by the State, the corporation is a public one, and such whether "Redfield on Railways" does that railroads belong not to govern- public corporations are under the control of mental enterprises, but to trading, the Legislature, the same as municipal cor- not say, in the first note just after the commercial or business enterprises. porations, and ordinarily acquire no such twenty authorities cited, that although But I go still further; had I told the vested rights of property as are beyond the they are private corporations, they excontrol of legislative authority. The Americommittee that a railroad was a private can cases going to confirm this proposition ercise public functions, and to that excorporation, in the technical sense of and to show that railways are private cor- tent are treated in law and in practice as public institutions? the term, I should not have misled the porations, are numerous. committee. I now aver, speaking as a There are cited in the note following lawyer, that a railroad is, in the techni- that, perhaps twenty cases, and not a cal sense of the term, a private corpora- dissenting case. The only instance, to Mr. CONGER. The note I refer to tion. And I go still further; I aver my knowledge, in which the case of that the Supreme Court of the State Swan vs. Williams is referred to on is the first note on the first page comof Michigan, have never decided any this subject, is to disapprove the lan-mencing the subject. other way. I am perfectly well aware guage of the judge. And I now assert of the decision in the case of "Swan that it is the doctrine of the text books, vs. Williams," reported in the 2nd from the beginning, that a public corMichigan Reports. I have been aware poration is only a corporation organof it for many years; I know precisely ized by the government, for general or what was decided in that case. It de- limited governmental purposes. It is cided this, neither more nor less: that only such a corporation that is deemed the power of eminent domain which to be a public corporation; except that rests in the sovereignty, need not be it is said in some cases, and it is referexercised by the sovereignty directly, red to here, that where the State inbut in certain cases may be delegated corporates a body, and takes itself all to a corporation to be exercised. I the stock, that also is a public corpocannot claim that I was ignorant that ration. But the authorities on this such a decision had been made; be- subject are not uniform. But ever cause professionally I have had occa- since the decision in the case of the sion repeatedly to exercise that delega- Planter's Bank of Georgia, this has to that.

Mr. LOTHROP. That note is before me, and I will read it; it is as follows:

"There is no necessity for these public functions being confined to aggregate corporacountry. The same functions and immunitions, as is the universal practice in this ties might be conferred upon any private person, at the election of the Legislature, as was done by the Legislature of New York upon Fulton and Livingston, in regard to steamboat navigation, which grant was held valid but for the United States Constitution. And whoever was the grantee, the same rights, duties and liabilities would result from the grant, whether to a natural person or to a corporation."

Mr. CONGER. The note previous