gentlemen upon this floor were ready vention, although I have lived the best is possible, simply because of that re-
to say that foreign capital shall never part of my life in this State, and in the striction. To us this question is vital;
come to aid us here, and that we shall region where I now reside, I have lived it is pressing; it is urgent; it is impor-
never be permitted to aid ourselves. in hope. I have lived there when there tant. So far as my people are con-
I submit to gentlemen who live along was no means of access or communica-cerned, it is a question of life or death
the lines of those old thoroughfares, tion in summer, and I had almost said to our advancement and our progress.
commenced by the State of Michigan, there was none in winter, except as the I trust, then, that the proposition
the indebtedness of which still remains ice bound our marshes between our which I have made, which, as was
a part of our State indebtedness, the county and Lapeer county, not even an stated fairly, was made as a compro-
tax to pay the interest upon which falls ordinary wagon road. But although mise between the extreme views of
equally upon the poor citizens of the we can pass along there now by means either side, may at least meet with the
north as upon the rich citizens of the of a wagon road from little island to respectful hearing and the respectful
south-I say to those gentleman that great island in the marsh, yet there is attention of this committee. If it can-
when we do not ask to be relieved from no means of carrying the wool and not be adopted, if other gentlemen
that tax, when we do not ask that the wheat and oats to market, except by shall look upon it so differently from
State shall incur any further indebted- way of Pontiac, or double the distance myself, I can yield to it as best I may,
ness, shall do what it pledged around, in order to get our produce to and regret it at my leisure.
itself to do, to build three lines a market; that which is not taken by
across the State, instead of two-I the lumbermen, and carried off into
say to those gentlemen representing the woods in the north. We live, two
those beautiful and rich counties, made counties adjoining each other, almost
so by the facilities which those roads as unknown to-day, so far as commu-
have given them, they should at least nications are concerned, as though we
let us alone, and permit us in our were living at Sitka Sound. The rail-
struggles to help ourselves. They road communications which we desire,
should not smother us, as it were in are with Lapeer, Shiawassee, and with
the cradle; they should let our energies other parts of the State.
find some means at least of attempting
to provide ourselves with communica-
tion between our counties for the trans-
portation of our products, and for
social intercourse. But if it cannot be,
if the word has gone forth that either
no help shall be permitted through
this Constitution, or what is worse, that
the majority of this Convention shall
say that instead of a safe and well pro-
tected system by which we may do some
little for ourselves, they will put into
the Constitution itself an eternal re-
striction, tying our hands and binding
our energies, we can only submit to it
as we have submitted to the decrees of
fate which have kept us in the wilder-
ness ever since the State began its
existence.

Mr. LOTHROP. I rise to make a personal explanation. Whether, at any time, I shall further discuss this question will depend entirely upon what shall seem to be the course before the Convention. I am well aware that I have already consumed more time on this subject than I intended to consume, or than could be agreeable to this Convention. I rise merely because of the personal reference made to myself by the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER.) I think it will be understood by the remark of the gentleman, that I am in this Convention as a representative of the Michigan Central railroad. Now, I do not suppose that my friend really thinks any such thing.

I have said that I have lived there
twenty years, with the hope that at
some day, these means of communica-
tion would be opened with some other
parts of the State. I have grown gray;
my energies are passing away, the best
part of my life is gone in that hopeless
waiting. We have asked the Legisla-
ture to permit our townships to aid in Mr. CONGER. Will the gentleman
this matter; to a slight extent it has allow me to interrupt him a moment?
been granted, to another extent it has
Mr. LOTHROP. Certainly.
been denied. We ask this Convention Mr. CONGER. If the gentleman
with a reasonable restriction, with a understood it so, I did not mean to
proper restriction, be it what it may, say that he was here in that capacity
to permit us to help ourselves in this at all. I meant simply to say that his
struggle of progress; and the old and own views of the interests of his con-
the young both cry out against the prop-stituents, and of the necessities of his
osition to permit us to do it. Sir, it people, did not permit him to look with
will not sound well twenty years hence, the same interest upon our efforts and
that gentlemen of this Convention have upon our desires that he would if he
refused us so slight a boon as that. lived with us. I did mean to say
What then will be the great and pre- that that company heretofore had pre-
ponderating influence in this State, I vented any railroad there by opposing
leave to them to say. Those who are a general railroad law. But I do not
past the prime of life may not live to know that the gentleman was the
see the changes which will come. As attorney of the company at that time.
I remarked the other day, doubtless
there may be one, probably two gener-
ations of the people of Michigan pass
away, before the necessity of develop-
ing the treasures of this State shall be-
come apparent, and the true interests
of this State shall be protected by wise
and judicious legislation.

If there is no better idea of justice and of right for the people of the north than is proposed by the gentleman from Cass, (Mr. VAN RIPER,) whose daily slumbers are disturbed by the continual shrieking of the whistles of their engines, we will still live on in our solitude. And in regard to that gentleman, who should be, with his youth and his energy, the very first to plant himself upon the principle in favor of the growth, progress and development of this State, which for long years he may adorn, if in after years it shall be any cause of gratification to him, or to other gentlemen who have done their "level best" in this Convention to stop the progress of the State, to check its advancement and cripple should be inserted in our Constitution, that I would for a moment permit my

its energies, God knows I do not envy them their future prospects, or envy the feelings with which they will regard their former action.

With me, as with many in this Con

Mr. LOTHROP. Let me say that I
had not the slightest idea that the
gentleman from St. Clair supposed that
I was here as the representative of the
Michigan Central railroad company.
But the import of his remarks, as they
will be understood here, and as they
will go forth, will imply that such is
the case. Now, I desire to say in the
most positive terms, that I think no
gentleman who knows me, will suppose
it will not receive one out of every self to come into a deliberative body
twenty votes of the people of my of this kind, as the representative of
county. I have to say that I believe it that or any other company.
would be their duty and mine to defeat
the adoption of the Constitution, if it

I have to say, however, in this matter, that if the proposition of the gentleman from Cass (Mr. VAN RIPER)

I say in the next place, without any reservation, that I do not know, nor

Mr. P. D. WARNER. If the gentleman will allow me, I will explain.

Mr. LOVELL. Certainly; that is what I want.

have I ever heard any intimation from cannot figure out any such sum, on any
any quarter whatever, whether that basis that I can get at.
company or the management of it even,
know that this question is before the
Convention, or if they do know it, what
are their views upon it. Nor do I
know that they have any reason to un-
derstand what are my views upon the
subject. In no way or shape whatev-
er do I represent the Michigan Cen-
tral railroad company here, any more
than I represent any other profession-
al connection whatever. So far as hav-
ing that professional connection which
for a long time has existed, if that be
a matter of any importance, it is cer-
tainly true. So far as my constituents
are concerned, I will take care of that
matter if I should speak upon the
question hereafter.

incur debt, that it was proper to consider the amount of its debt. I say, as I was about to say when I was interrupted, that if the population of this country has been decimated, I believe that Michigan has borne her full share Mr. P. D. WARNER. Understand-in that decimation. Our soldiers have ing the indebtedness of the United fought as bravely and fallen as freStates to be something over $2,500,- quently as the soldiers of the other 000,000, I divided that by thirty, esti-States. It is not reasonable to suppose mating the population of the United that the population of Michigan has States to be 30,000,000, and of the increased any faster than the population State of Michigan at 1,000,000, and of the remainder of the country, or that that gave me $83,000,000. The pop- its wealth has increased to any greater ulation of the United States exceeds extent. Then in making an estimate 30,000,000, and the population of the of this sort, if you propose to add oneState of Michigan does not equal one third to the population of Michigan, million; for that reason I deducted why not add something like a third to $3,000,000, which left $80,000,000. the population of the country at large? Mr. LOVELL. I find by the cen- If so, then the population of the United Now, as to the imputation that the sus of 1860, that the population of this States will be 40,000,000. Now, divide Michigan Central Railroad Company, country was in round numbers 31,000,- $2,500,000,000 by forty, and it will make once opposed a general railroad law. 000; that the population of the State the share of this State $62,500,000, I do not know that, except that they of Michigan was at that time 749,000. over $20,000,000 less than the gentlehad a controversy with the Michigan The population of the State of Mich-man from Oakland, (Mr. P. D. WARSouthern Railroad Company, upon the igan was a little less than three-quar- NER,) estimated. Now, the matter of building of a railroad from Detroit to ters of a million, and the population of $20,000,000 is not much, in all these Monroe, which was built by the facili- the United States was a little over 30,- figures, but it is something to be conties which they afforded. I undertake 000,000. If the State of Michigan has sidered when we go into this matter to say that the Michigan Central Rail- increased in population so that it is accurately. If we go into figures at all, road Company is not opposed to any now 1,000,000, (I am inclined to think do not make the figures lie.. form of internal improvement in this that it is that very nearly,) is it unreaState; they do not stand in the way of sonable to suppose that the population internal improvement of any kind. I of the United States has increased believe that if the truth was known to- to 40,000,000? I know that it will be day, they are aiding the matter of in- said that the war has decimated the ternal improvement as much as any population somewhat. other organization existing in the State, and giving as effectual and wholesome aid as any other.

Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. Will the Chair state what is the question before this Convention?

The CHAIRMAN. It is upon striking out the word "ten."

Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH. I call the gentleman to order; he is not speaking to the question.

It is said that our wealth, as equalized by the State board, is within a fraction of $308,000,000. Now, if the property of this State, as equalized, is assessed only at two-fifths of its actual value, (and I apprehend that no person would place it higher,) then the property that goes upon the tax rolls of this State is really about $770,000,000, One word more of personal explanathough represented by an equalization of $308,000,000. Now, add to that all tion before I sit down. My friend has spoken of the place where I live, of the Mr. LOVELL. I am not to blame that vast amount of property which is township of Hamtramck. He has dis- if the gentleman does not understand not entered upon the tax roll at all, played rather a flighty knowledge of the question. I will not make any personal property, and property which is exempt from taxation. If you do geography in his reference to Lapland further allusions to that. and Terra del Fuego. But I will say that, you will get up to over $1,000,to my excellent friend that if he will 000,000 as the real value of property honor me with a visit to my summer in this State to-day. The share of the home, (and I now give him a most The CHAIRMAN. The question national debt for this State is only pressing invitation to do so,) it will be has taken a considerable range during about $62,000,000. In other words, it a part of my office there to instruct this afternoon, and there has been no amounts to less than the lowest legal him in that matter, and to tell him that attempt to confine it within very strict rate of annual interest allowed in this although Hamtramck may be a very limits. One portion of the discussion State; less than seven per cent. upon enlightened place, there is one other has related to the ability of the State the actual value of the property of the place still more enlightened, and in of Michigan to sustain whatever indebt- State. Are we then swamped with that place is my home, in Grosse Point, edness might be contracted under the debt? The debt is large, but the bonds and not in Hamtramck. We have one policy which it is proposed to provide of the United States are above par, and railway there; it is not much of a rail- for in this section. The Chair under- that in itself is an indication that the way, it is true; the misfortune is that it stands the gentleman from Genesee nation is not near bankruptcy, that it ends at Port Huron. [Great laughter.] (Mr. LOVELL) to be pursuing that line has not taken the first step in that Mr. LOVELL. Considerable has of argument, and will rule that he is in direction. been said in regard to the enormous order. Now, one other point; it has been debt of the country. Now, I desire to Mr. LOVELL. I did intend to pur-intimated that this section authorizes ask the gentleman from Oakland, (Mr. sue that line of argument, and I had the raising of $15,000,000. Now, if P.D. WARNER,) how it is that he figures supposed that a man in the ordinary the gentleman from Oakland, (Mr. P. out that the share of the national debt vigor of manhood, and with ordinary D. WARNER,) will figure upon the towns which belongs to this State is capacity, would have been able to see through which all the railroads would $80,000,000? I have been figuring on that when the question was whether run, which we proposed last winter it ever since he made his speech, and I the people of Michigan were able to should be built, (and nobody has any

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The motion was agreed to. The committee accordingly rose; and the PRESIDENT having resumed the chair,

Mr. PRINGLE reported that the committee of the whole, pursuant to the order of the Convention, had had under consideration the article entitled "Legislative Department;" had made some progress therein, and had directed him to ask leave to sit again.

Leave was accordingly granted. Mr. ESTEE. I move that the Convention now adjourn.

The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at fifteen minutes past 5 o'clock p. m.,) the Convention adjourned.

WEDNESDAY, July 17, 1867. The Convention met at nine o'clock a. m., and was called to order by the PRESIDENT.

Prayer by Rev. Mr. VANDRISS..

:

Smith, Stockwell, Stoughton, Thompson,
Tyler, Van Riper, Walker, P. D. Warner, M.
C. Watkins, F.C. Watkins, White, Williams,

Yeomans and the President-44.

The question recurred upon the resolution

authorized to pledge its credit for any such purpose."

The pending question is upon the Mr. THOMPSON. Inasmuch as I amendment offered by the gentleman offered this resolution, perhaps I ought from Kent, (Mr. M. C. WATKINS,) to strike out the word "ten," before the words "per cent. of the assessed valuation," and insert the word "five." Mr. LONGYEAR. I have already

The PRESIDENT. The previous question having been seconded, and the main question having been ordered, made what remarks I desire to make no debate is in order. The yeas and upon the amendment now pending. I nays upon this resolution have been had intended to make some remarks called for by the gentleman from Len- to the committee upon the main question, the merits of the section involved awee, (Mr. STOCKWELL.) in some of the amendments which have been indicated by other members. I had not intended to make those remarks upon this amendment; and if the vote can now be taken without YEAS-Messrs. Birney, Blackman, Burtch, Burtenshaw, Chapman, Coolidge, Crocker, further discussion, I will forbear Duncan, Duncombe, Farmer, Harris, Hazen, whatever remarks I have to make until Henderson, Huston, Ingalls, Kenney, Lamb, the proper time and occasion shall arLeach, Longyear, Luce, McClelland, McConnell, McKernan, Miller, Morton, Mussey, rive, if I shall see fit to make them at Stockwell, Sutherland, Thompson, Tyler, Van more confidence, because during the Pratt, Pringle, Rafter, Shearer, T. G. Smith, all. I make this suggestion with the Riper, Walker, P. D. Warner, M. C. Watkins, last few days' discussion, this question F. C. Watkins, White, Woodhouse, Yeomans of the change from ten per cent. to five per cent. has scarcely been alluded to by any of those who have spoken; the discussion has been upon the general discussion to be had upon this question question. I hope, if there is no further of the change from ten per cent. to five per cent., that the vote will be taken If that can be done, I will forbear any further remarks at the present time.

Mr. STOCKWELL. I call for the yeas and nays upon the resolution. Mr. LOVELL. I desire before we pass upon this resolution, to call the attention of this Convention to the fact that meeting here at three o'clock we have always and invariably adjourned from five to half-past five o'clock. Now, if it is the desire of members to sit here three hours in the afternoon, we can just as well sit until six o'clock as to adjourn earlier. But the fact is, that the Convention gets wearied before the hour of six o'clock arrives; and we adjourn because we are exhausted. If we listen for two or three hours to the speeches which are made here, and the most of us are NAYS-Messrs. Aldrich, Alexander, Andrus, listeners, we become so exhausted ner- Barber, Bills, Bradley, Brown, Case, Chavously, that we cannot continue it pin, Conger, Corbin, Daniells, Divine, Ellonger with any profit to our under- liott, Estee, Ferris, Germain, Giddings, Hixstanding, or with any comfort to our-Lothrop, Lovell, Miles, Musgrave, Ninde, son, Holmes, Holt, Howard, Lawrence, selves. I think if we adopt this reso- Norris, Parsons, Richmond, Root, Sawyer, lution, we will merely change the time Sheldon, W. A. Smith, Stoughton, Van Valat which our adjournment takes place Withey, Williams and Wright—43. kenburgh, W. E. Warner, Willard, Winsor, to an earlier hour in the afternoon. I submit that, at this season of the Mr. VAN VALKENBURGH, when the heat of the middle of the day is his name was called, said: I wish to say much more unpleasant to be borne one word in explanation of my vote, The question was then taken upon than the heat at a little later hour. It lest it should be thought I shrink from striking out "ten," and inserting "five;" is most surely much pleasanter to sit my duties here. I think the energies and upon a division, ayes 31, noes 46, here between the hours of half-past of the working men of this Conven- it was not agreed to. five and six o'clock, than between half- tion are sufficiently taxed by the time The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will past two and three o'clock. we now occupy in our sessions, and say in regard to the various amendthat nothing will be gained by length-ments offered on Monday, by unaniening the sessions. I therefore vote mous consent, to be printed in the journal, that they will be held in abey ance, and presented in their proper order. The next amendment is the one offered by the gentleman from Isabella, (Mr. ESTEE,) to insert, after the words "construction of any railroad," the words "plank roads, gravel roads, and turnpikes."

year,

LEGISLATIVE DEPARTMENT.

The motion was agreed to.

Another thing; we have the right, and it is our duty, to care somewhat for our own health. Good digestion, “no.” I apprehend, at least so the books and physicians tell us, is necessary to the Mr. ANDRUS. I move that the enjoyment of good health. Those who Convention now resolve itself into engage in the kind of work that we committee of the whole on the general have imposed upon us here, ought to order. have good digestion, ought to have a little rest after dinner, and then we shall come into the Convention with our stomachs in better condition, and by reason thereof, with our brains clearer. We shall save nothing by meeting at half-past two o'clock; we shall, in the matter of health, comfort, and the ability to discharge faithfully The CHAIRMAN. When the comour duties as delegates, gain much by mittee rose on yesterday, it had under meeting at three o'clock instead of half- consideration section twenty-seven of past two. At least so it seems to me, this article, which had been amended and, therefore, I think the resolution to read as follows: should not be adopted.

Mr. HENDERSON. I call for the previous question.

The call for the previous question was seconded, there being ayes 52, a majority of all the members elected.

The Convention accordingly resolved itself into committee of the whole, (Mr. PRINGLE in the chair,) and resumed the consideration of the article entitled "Legislative Department."

MUNICIPAL AID TO RAILROADS.

Mr. ESTEE. I withdraw that amendment.

The CHAIRMAN. There was another amendment presented by the gentleman from Van Buren, (Mr. BLACKMAN,) to insert, after the words "construction of any railroad," the words "or other internal improvement;" and also to insert the same words after the words “ any and all railroads." The question was taken upon the amendment of Mr. BLACKMAN, and it was not agreed to.

"The Legislature shall not authorize any city or township to pledge its credit for the purpose of aiding in the constru of any railroad to an extent whereby the outstand ing indebtedness, exclusive of interest, on ac- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman count of aid to any and all railroads, shall exceed ten per cent. of the assessed valuation of from Saginaw (Mr. MILLER) proposed such city or township. No county shall be to amend this section by striking out

all after the words "construction of any railroad;" so that the section will read:

"The Legislature shall not authorize any city or township to pledge its credit for the purpose of aiding in the construction of any railroad."

In my opinion, of all the gentlemen ernment to lay taxes upon the people who have spoken upon this floor, the to assist in private enterprises, then gentleman from Calhoun, (Mr. WIL- we say they fail altogether to establish LARD,) has been the only one who has any such proposition, by analogy or dared to meet openly, and fairly, and otherwise.

squarely, the question at issue between Now, I ask the serious attention of Mr. MILLER. In relation to that us. That question is not whether rail- this committee to the state of the case. amendment, allow me to observe that roads are a blessing or not; the ques- If I understand it, it is this; companies I am in principle opposed to townships tion is not whether it is for the best are organized within this State for the having anything to do with railroads, interests of the State to engage in purpose of building railroads. Now, or with voting aid to railroads, or hold- these schemes of public improvement. those companies or corporations are ing stock in railroads. I made this But the question is this: Is it within local companies or corporations of motion as expressing my own views on the proper field and scope of taxation private individuals. They are asking that subject. I wish now to make one to lay a tax upon a man's prop- aid, not voluntary aid. To be sure other remark; it is this-that if such erty against his will, in order to raise they go round with their agents, and benefits are supposed to result from funds to carry on the private busi- ask people to subscribe to their stock, townships engaging in the construction ness of other men? That is the question. to assist them to build their road; and of railroads, then this section should Now, my friend from Calhoun walked that is all right and proper. But they be stricken out from this article manfully up to that question, and he are asking for aid in another way; they altogether. I do not know by insisted that it was within the func- are asking that we shall elevate these what rule it is, it is, that members tions of government to resort to tax- private enterprises, these private corpoof this Convention are to be satisfied ation to aid private enterprises for the rations for the building of railroads, to with ten per cent. of these blessings, public benefits that would accrue from the dignity of other State proceedings, when by striking out the entire section them. And in support of that propo- that we shall no longer treat them as we may possibly have a hundred per sition, he cited us to instances both private enterprises, but as public entercent. of them. Now, if so many bene- ancient and modern. But there was prises; that we shall no longer treat fits as is supposed would result from this great defect in the cases cited by the persons composing those cortownships engaging in the construction him, in their applicability to the ques-porations as private individuals, but as of railroads or other internal improve- tion under consideration; all these in- public individuals. In other words, ments, then I would be for having stances to which he referred were in- we are to do our "level best," to use them go into the business with all the stances of public improvements carried the classical language of the gentleman means within their control. For, if on by the public. They were public from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) to elevate you get a hundred per cent. of profit enterprises, not private enterprises at these private corporations to the same for your investment in these works, all. That was the case in reference to dignity as corporations of the State, your property will be increased a hun- the roads built during the period of and to treat them as such. dred per cent., and you can go on ad the Roman Empire, and other improve- Now, I ask gentlemen of this cominfiinitum, aiding railroads and other ments of a like character. Now, does mittee, if it is true, as a matimprovements, and prospering beyond the gentleman suppose that there is ter of fact, that these corporations anything this Convention can conceive any one on this floor who doubts the are strictly private corporations? of. legality or the propriety of the State They are legally so, and they are Mr. FERRIS. I suppose that the doing public business of that kind, so as a matter of fact. Whence amendment proposed by the gentleman such as building roads and bridges, this pretence that they should receive from Saginaw (Mr. MILLER,) opened etc.? No one on this floor doubts the aid of a public character through the up this whole question upon its merits. proposition that it is within the func- medium of taxation? It is, in the I have not a great deal to say upon the tions of government to do such work. language of my friend from Ingham, question in view of the indication of That is government work, and the (Mr. LONGYEAR,) that great benefit the spirit of the majority here. But work when done is government prop- arises therefrom; that cities are built what I have to say I will say now. And erty. up, and property doubled and trebled here, once for all, in behalf of myself in value by means thereof, and that and those gentlemen who entertain the country is opened up and desimilar opinions with me upon this veloped. Now, I ask, if the primary question, I enter my solemn protest object of these corporations is to open against the insinuations thrown out up the country to settlement, or to inyesterday by the gentleman from St. crease other men's property in value? Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) that those of us No such thing. It is to increase their who are opposed to the system of local own property; it is to build roads for taxation for building railroads are their own benefit; it is that after they. doing their "level best" to prevent the have got this property into their hands, improvement of this State. I want these lines of road established, they that gentleman, and others situated as going to show that taxation for the may charge rates of fare and rates of like him, and entertaining the same building of railroads and other roads, freight, and make it a paying business. views, to understand, that we are acting was within the scope of the powers of That is their object. I admit that conscientiously for the best interest of the government, and could be properly whenever one... of these roads the State as we regard it. And we do exercised by the government. So far is built, the public do reap adnot propose to stand here and be con- those instances were referred to as vantages. They reap these advantages demned by him, or any other man, illustrations of the benefits which re- in the facility of intercommunication; because we differ in opinion from him, sult from great public works, all of us they can pass readily over these roads as to what is the best policy to be pur- of course agree with the gentleman. in person; they can send their goods sued for the development of the State, But so far as they were referred to as over them. The public does reap a and for the promotion of its good. evidence of power existing in the gov-benefit in that way; and it reaps the

Mr. WILLARD. Will the gentle-
man yield to me for a moment?

Mr. FERRIS. Certainly.
Mr. WILLARD. I desire to say
that I referred to those works, as the
gentleman will remember, if he reflects
for a moment, to show the benefits
conferred upon the people by all great
works of internal improvement.

Mr. FERRIS. I understood the
gentleman also to refer to those works

: