The Debates and Proceedings of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Michigan

one certain established principle for We should therefore not open a door pensation is to be allowed at all, the the making of bargains; that is the to admit all those claims against the proposition should come, not from the law of the land. If men make their State, which would cripple us so that Governor, in the first instance, but it bargains in conformity with just laws, we could not pay our debts. We ex- should go to the Legislature and there they should live up to them, and per-pect no sympathy will be shown us; we be discussed in both branches, with comform them. I claim that we should expect that we shall have to pay the mittees to examine it, and elicit all the not hold out inducements in this or- hard cash. And we are willing to work information possible under the circumganic law, and cause men when they and labor, and be industrious, econom-stances; and then if it passed both make a bargain to do so with the un- ical and prudent, in order to pay those branches with a vote of two-thirds of derstanding, that although the bargain debts; and we want to pay those debts the members elect, the Governor will will probably be a bad one, yet, if they as fast as we can. We should, there- have information from the reports of the fail to fulfill it they can apply to the fore, not cripple ourselves by allowing committees, and the discussions which Governor and two-thirds of the Leg- all these men to come forward with have taken place in the Legislature, islature to give them compensation their claims. There is no doubt but without being committed to the measwhich will pay them well for their bar- what there are many honest men who ure by any previous recommendation gain. They will enter into the bar- have such claims; but we cannot help of it, and can then unbiased examine gain with the understanding, that all the suffering there is in the world. it and approve it, if in his judgment should they fail to perform their du- Our organic law must not be so made the extra compensation should be alties properly they can resort to the al- that the Legislature will be compelled lowed. He would thus stand uncomternative of applying to the Legisla- to help all the suffering, and listen to mitted and independent upon the questure and the Governor for assistance. the cries of all the needy. If we do so tion. If, however, it should come the This would deprive good business men we shall cripple the vast energies of other end first, the Governor recomfrom making contracts with the State; the State, and take from the treasury mending it to the Legislature upon for those other men may go into the the money that should go to pay our some ex parte statement made to him, market and make contracts at a less debts, and we would be left continually he will be differently situated. When price than they could really do the bus- in debt. I hope that neither the the application would be made to the iness for. amendment or the amendment to the Governor, there would be presented Now, so far as the statement that the amendment will prevail. I see no to him only such facts as might great State of Michigan has power to wrong in the clause, which provides that be deemed necessary to induce him help poor men, that is all true. But the Legislature shall not grant, nor to make the recommendation to the our State is not entirely out of the authorize, extra compensation to any Legislature; there would be but one woods yet. We have a great many public officer, agent, or contractor, side of the question presented to him. legitimate and lawful matters to look after the service has been rendered, or Besides that, if he should recommend after, in order to make and keep our the contract entered into." Let us live it in the first instance, his influence State great and prosperous. We have up to that; for one, I will try to do it. upon the Legislature might be such, an enormous debt hanging over us. I hope that gentlemen will not vote to as to lead them to pass the measure, * We have a great many debts that we change this section. I have seen too when it might not be proper for them must pay. I presume that the general much of this lobbying around the Leg- to pass it. I am opposed, therefore, to government will never release us from the amendment, and also to the amendany of our debts incurred on its account. ment offered by the gentleman from So far as I have been able to learn anyIngham, (Mr. LONGYEAR.) I have so thing about it, it has not been the worded my substitute, that even if the policy of the government of the United claim passes the Legislature by a twoStates to release men from their con- Mr. WITHEY. I do not like the thirds vote, and the Governor disaptracts; when they make contracts with amendment that has been offered, and proves of it, it cannot be passed by the the government they must fulfill them. would, therefore, propose a substitute Legislature over his objections. Thus People have become largely involved in for it, in order to make the section as guarded, it seems to me there can be consequence of the rebellion; and if I would like to have it. I offer as a very little objection to adopting this the State would pay all their debts do substitute for all the amendments amendment. It is true, that it might you suppose the general government which have been offered, the following: open the door to frauds upon the would release us? Shall wẹ say to the "Without a two-thirds vote of all the mem- State. But I apprehend that upon the general government that we want some bers elect of both branches of the Legislature help to pay all these enormous debts, and the Governor's approval." and that we want deductions made to us to enable us to do it? No, sir, we stand firmly by the principle that we "The Legislature shall not grant nor aucalculate to pay our debts, and not re- thorize extra compensation to any public offipudiate any of them; we calculate to cer, agent or contractor, after the services has been rendered or the contract entered pay every cent which is due from us. into, without an affirmative vote of two-thirds But we must be careful to see that of the members elect of both branches of the economy is used, and prudence is prac- Legislature and the Governor's approval." ticed, so that we may be able to pay The CHAIRMAN. The question will these enormous debts which have been be first taken upon the amendment to incurred, in order to save the Union, the amendment, and then upon the the Constitution, and the government. substitute offered by the gentleman We must husband our means in order from Kent, (Mr. WITHEY.) to do it. We ask no sympathy; we

islature, and getting up old claims, and
taking up a part of that time which
should be occupied for the legitimate
purposes which the people send the
Legislature here.

The section if so amended will then read as follows:

whole, the better rule would be to so frame the instrument we are now engaged upon, that the State, as well as individuals can do justice. I am inclined to think that the measure may be a good one.

تر

I desire to

Mr. STOUGHTON. read a substitute which I propse to offer at the proper time, differing in some respects from that offered by the gentleman from Kent, (Mr. WITHEY.) I shall move to add to the section these words, "except upon a vote, of threefourths of the members elect of each House, and the approval of the GovMr. WITHEY, I cannot vote in ernor. This exception shall not apclaim only that we shall exercise that favor of the amendment of the gen-ply to any case arising prior to the energy, persistent industry and econ- tleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) first day of September, 1861." omy, and prudence, which is necessary for this reason: I think if extra com- Mr. CONGER. I am willing to acto enable us to pay these debts.

cept the proposition of the gentleman section. The gentleman frem Ingham, Davis to furnish the prison with the beef rafrom St. Joseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON,) in (Mr. LONGYEAR,) moved an amendment tions for the year closing Nov. 30th, 1864, at 34 cents per pound. He has furnished 136,lieu of the amendment which I offered. to the amendment. Then a substitute 376 pounds, which he claims has cost him I see by reference to the minutes of the for the amendment was offered by the six cents per pound, amounting to $8,182 56 committee that reported this article, gentleman from Kent, (Mr. WITHEY.) And received from us at 34 cents, 4,432 22 that while this subject was under con- The Chair ruled that before the subMaking a logs to him of,..... $3,750 34 sideration, the proposition to require stitute for the amendment could be I have no doubt that this is nearly correct, a three-fourths, instead of a two-thirds voted upon, the question must first be and it does not seem to me just or reasonable vote, was the one to which a majority taken upon the amendment to the that the State should profit by this man's misfortune, and insist upon his losing so of those agreed who were in favor of amendment. A second substitute for large an amount. Mr. Davis, being a man of such a measure of any kind. There- the amendment was read by the gentle- quite limited means, feels this loss severely; fore the proposition of the gentleman man from St. Joseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON,) and I submit for your consideration, the propriety of your recommending such relief by from St. Joseph would perhaps meet which the gentleman from St. Clair, the Legislature as at least will repay him the the wishes of all the members of the (Mr. CONGER,) proposes to accept in original cost of the beef, if not for his time, committee who were in favor of making lieu of his original amendment. In the trouble, labor and expense. any innovation at all upon this section. opinion of the Chair, the gentleman I am inclined to think that it would be from St. Clair cannot accept the subwell to submit such questions finally stitute, without the consent of the gento the Governor for his approval, in- tleman from Ingham, (Mr. LONGYEAR.) stead of having them submitted to him Mr. LONGYEAR. I am perfectly in the first place. The object I had in willing to give my consent, except that view in requiring the Governor to I do not think that the substitute prorecommend these claims to the Legis- posed by the gentleman from St. Jolature, was that he alone should seph (Mr. STOUGHTON) goes far enough have the opportunity of referring back. I should think it should reach them to the Legislature; that his back as far as January, 1861. time alone should be taken np in examining into the questions, and ascertaining such proof as would satisfy him that the claims should go to the Legislature. But with the proposed amendment, requiring the matter to be referred first directly to the Legislature, I think it will perhaps meet my own wish better, and guard it thoroughly, and still leave a door open for the Legislature to meet special cases, calling for the exercise of justice and equity.

For the coming year we have let the beef contract at 6 cents per pound, and it is quite doubtful whether the contractor can save himself even at that price. flour for us the past year, at cents per Mr. E. B. Fuller, also contracted to furnish pound, upon which he claims to have lost upon first cost about fifteen hundred dollars. that it is almost impossible for one to arrive During this war, prices have been so variable ' at any definite conclusions, at what prices anything will rule for a year to come. people of this State should take into due con

And

it seems to me no more than right that the sideration the times we live in, and do by Mr. STOUGHTON. I have no ob- others as we would be done by. These men jection to change the date from Sep-knowing that they were losing from five to have faithfully fulfilled their contracts, well tember, 1861, to January, 1861. ten dollars per day, yet trusted to the magnanimity of the State for a just and equitable relief."

Mr. LONGYEAR. Then I have no objection to the gentleman from St. Clair accepting that substitute for his original amendment.

In the report of the inspectors they have referred to this statement of the agent, as follows:

"While here we would also respectfully invite your special attention to the recom

Mr. WITHEY. I am perfectly satisfied with the substitute offered by the gentleman from St. Joseph, (Mr.mendation of the agent concerning the beef STOUGHTON,) and therefore I withdraw contract of this last year with Mr. C. G. my substitute.

The CHAIRMAN. The question will then be upon the amendment of the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) as modified by the adoption of the substitute proposed by the gentleman from St. Joseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON.)

Davis, who made it in the month of Septem

low. Mr. Davis is a well known resident of

consciences of the public."

ber, when the price of beef was ruling very I think the leading objection to althe city of Jackson, and is regarded as an inlowing these claims to be considered dustrious and honest man. Even the most by the Legislature, was presented by sagacious men in our country did not anticipate at that time the exorbitant price at the gentleman from Eaton (Mr. which the article of beef stood for a great BURTCH.) I was very sorry to see a portion of the year. In many instances he gentleman of his well known desire to was obliged to pay double the amount per Mr. BRADLEY. I will read to the the State after the beef was dressed and decwt. for stock on foot, that he received from do justice to all, express his willing ness to leave the State so bound up by committee the items of the report of livered. Notwithstanding the heavy loss constitutional provisions, that it could the State Prison Inspectors referred to that he was suffering, Mr. Davis fulfilled his not do what the people of the whole by the gentleman from St. Clair. (Mr. cannot too strongly urge the favorable concontract promptly and faithfully, and we State might deem to be right and just CONGER,) simply for the purpose of giv-sideration of the Legislature in his behalf. to their contractors. I cannot seeing such information as they contain his part willve that such a sacrifice on why a State should be bound by a in regard to this question. The facts approve itself to the constitutional provision so as to be can be considered by gentlemen in "We would also further concur in the recomprevented in any and every contingen- making up their minds how to vote up-mendation of the agent in behalf of Mr. Fulcy fer, who has furnished the prison promptly from doing what the united voice on either side of the question. To me and faithfully with the best of flour, upon of the people might otherwise demand it seems that we ought to guard this every pound of which he was an actual loser. of the Legislature to do. But I ex-matter very carefully if we adopt this He has been scrupulously honest in all his pressed my opinions the other day on amendment at all. I should not be in agreements, and does not ask remuneration for time or labor, but simply to be made this subject, and I do not know that I favor of accepting any of the amend-good on the first cost of his flour. We honwish to add anything to them. I de- ments which have been offered to the sire, however, to ask the gentleman original section, unless it be the last, from Kalamazoo, (Mr. BRADLEY,) who requiring a three-fourths vote of the has before him the report of the in- Legislature and the final approval of spectors of the State prison, to read the Governor. I will however read that portion relating to the cases which from the statement of the agent of the I mentioned Saturday. State Prison in regard to contracts The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will which have been referred to in this defirst state the question. The motion bate. The statement of the agent is as was first made by the gentleman from follows: St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) to amend this

"Last year we made a contract with C. G.

estly think that every principle of justice demands that these men should receive some further remuneration for services actually rendered. For further particulars concerning these contracts, we would respectfully refer you to the agent's report."

I think we shall find in these statements specimen samples of such claims as may be made upon the State from time to time, on the part of those who will claim that they suffered losses in their contracts with the State.

Mr. WRIGHT. I cannot agree to the proposition as it now stands. If it is in order, I would offer a substitute for the amendment now pending.

The CHAIRMAN. A substitute for that amendment would be in order. Mr. WRIGHT. I will then move to substitute for the amendment the following:

"But any contract may be canceled and annulled by the Legislature when the interest of the State or justice-to the contractor shall require it."

think a great deal more.

may be done to the parties. But cannot we do justice to the parties under the principle of the original amendment, just as well as to adopt a provision for the cancellation of a contract? Certainly. If the Legislature shall meet only once in two years, then there is no necessity to give the Legislature power to cancel or annul a contract. By that time the contract would have expired; and the simple question would be, what is required to be done upon principles of justice, fairness and equity?

course, it is for us to judge, in making for the State, if it shall appear to the Why is any contract to be annulled ? up our minds upon this subject, Legislature that the contractor will The mover of the substitute says that whether claims of this character suffer materially if he fulfills his con- he offers it in order that simple justice ought to be allowed; whether there tract, the Legislature may be permitted ought to be any relief for such persons to annul the contract and wipe it out, through the Legislature or otherwise. and then there will be a re-letting of It seems to me that if we can guard the contract; or if it shall appear to the matter with sufficient care, the the Legislature that the contractor will State will very seldom suffer by frauds enrich himself at the expense of the which may be practiced upon the Leg State, that the State will lose by the islature in regard to such cases as continuance of the contract, then the these. But, I would be decidedly op- Legislature will have power to annul posed to going back further than the it. It gives both sides, the State and date referred to in the amendment. the contractor, an equal opportunity to be benefited by the proposition. It will permit the annulling of the contract either for the interest of the State or in justice to the contractor. But I I am in favor of the amendment ofam unwilling to consent to adopt an fered by the gentleman from St. Clair, amendment which will open the door (Mr. CONGER.) And I wish to say one for claims which may be drummed up word upon that subject. I apprehend in connection with services performed that the issue of this question will dein the past. I am willing to consent termine whether the State has any only that there shall be a provision soul, or whether like other corporations adopted by which in the future neither it has none. I would be sorry to see the the contractor nor the State may suffer. day come in the State of Michigan, Mr. COOLIDGE. I am opposed to when the Legislature will act upon any I will state briefly my reasons for the substitute. In the first place I do such principle as that. It has grated offering this amendment. I feel un- not see its practicability. In the sec- upon my ears to hear it said that the willing to have incorporated in the ond place I can see that in a case of Legislature in no case should have the organic law of this State a provision that kind the Legislature would have power to reliève a man, however unthat shall induce men who have made all the power they would have un- fortunate he might be, or whatever contracts with the State, and which der the original amendment, and I emergencies may have arisen. That is contracts at the time they were made a proposition which to me sounds exit was supposed they would fulfill, and Suppose a contract is entered into tremely harsh; I do not like it. I do that the sum of money required to be between the State and other parties on not know why the Legislature should paid by the terms of those contracts the first day of February, 1868; and not be governed by the same principle would be all that would be asked-I from the necessities of the case it would which governs private individuals in am opposed to having the organic law take about two years to complete the matters of this kind. If they are to be of the State so framed that these con- contract; at what time shall the Leg- governed by principles of justice and tractors may come back to the State islature cancel that contract? They equity, I do not see why this power and demand an additional sum of could not very well do it during the should not be allowed them. Hence, I money. I am opposed to having our first six months, even if the Legislature do not feel the force of any of the arorganic law so framed, that losses suf- were in session; because changes might guments which have been made against fered or incurred may be made up to occur during the remainder of the this amendment. the contractors. I am opposed to it term of the contract, which would I will not discuss the merits of either because as has been stated by several make it well enough, and which would of the cases which have been presented gentlemen on this floor, it will open a enable the party to carry it out, and to this committee; either the one ariswide door for such claims, and future suffer no losses under it. It might be ing in Jackson or those in Kalamazoo. Legislatures of this State will be con- that during the entire two years, cir- I have nothing to say of any particular tinually flooded with such applications cumstances would be such that there case. I will simply say that emergenfor renumeration; there will be no end would be no principle of justice or cies will probably arise where it may to such applications. equity which would require the can- become necessary, and proper, and I am opposed to it for the further cellation of the contract at all. If we right, and not only that, but obligatoreason that this is a one-sided proposi- have biennial sessions of the Legisla- ry upon the Legislature to grant relief. tion. It is a proposition to remuner ture, then as a matter of course many I am not saying what those cases ate contractors who have suffered loss, times contracts could not be canceled may be. But the proposed amendand to pay them money because they at any time while in force. I think, ment provides that if a case of that have lost by reason of their contracts therefore, the substitute is not very kind shall arise, and three-fourths of with the State. But there is no pro-practicable. the Legislature are satisfied in regard to the equity and honesty of the claim, and the Governor approves of it, then this relief shall be afforded. And why should not this power be given to the Legislature? Why should we say in the Constitution, no matter what the exigencies may have been; no matter how fairly, and honestly and justly the party may have acted, no matter by what power of man or of Omnipotence,

vision made to remunerate the State And again, if the Legislature should for losses that it may sustain, or to have power, as they would have if the have re-paid to the State the increased substitute be adopted, to cancel a conamount of money contractors may tract after the expiration of the time make by reason of changes in prices during which it was to run, then you after their contracts were made. My give them more power than the origamendment proposes that in the future inal amendment proposed to give whenever a contract shall be made with them. I cannot see any necessity in any individual to perform any services the world for giving the Legislature for the State, to furnish any material such power in regard to contracts.

גי

he may have been prevented from fulfilling his contract, there shall be in the State of Michigan no relief for him at all? What is the necessity for such a rule as that? Why should this Con

Mr. WITHEY. Though the heavens fall.”

Mr. COOLIDGE. My remark is perfectly true. I have added a little to the current phrase; but the earth may fall after all.

action of the Legislature upon all these
cases, where there had been either a
violation of contract, or a neglect to
fulfill the contract, so that damages
were claimed under it. If they are

simply upon striking out "1861," and
inserting "1867."

Mr. BURTCH. Exactly; I understand that. I am very thankful to the Chair and to gentlemen of this Con

vention forestall all future Legislatures, meritorious cases, I have no objection vention for their kind instruction to me for all time to come, by such an iron that they should be included within as to what I should say. [Laughter.] on to say that rule as that in the Constitution? I do the rule; if they are not, I see no I was going is a question of this not think it is right. I do not think it reason why the rule should apply to if there kind which should excite the symwill sound well here or anywhere else. them, and not to all the others. I do not think there is any particular Mr. LAWRENCE. I. hope the pathies of this Convention, and of danger at all to be apprehended from amendment of the gentleman from the people of the State, to such an such applications, where the provision Saginaw, (Mr. MILLER,) will not pre-extent that it should be engrafted in is guarded so strongly as is this amend- vail. It does seem to me that it must the Constitution, then we should put a ment. And to say, that during the be impossible for the members of this provision in the Constitution expressly whole time this Constitution may Convention, with a knowledge of this stating what the case is, and then I live, if it ever have life, that one instance which occurred at Jack-would go for it. I propose to introin no case whatever, be the neces- son, coming as it does in such a dis- duce an amendment which will apply sity ever so clear, the Legislature shall tinct shape before them, to refuse to all cases of a like character, so that grant relief to a suffering man ruined to insert a clause in the Constitution when the Legislature, by a joint resoby misfortunes, by accidents, by emer- that will permit that individual to have lution of the two Houses, provide for gencies, not to be foreseen by anybody, justice done him. Do the members of such a claim and the people of the that I think is wrong. As my friend this Convention wish the State to State vote for it when submitted to here, (Mr. WITHEY,) remarks-let jus- pocket the amount which that man has them, then it should become the law of tice be done, though heaven and earth lost in fulfilling honestly his con- the land, and the parties should be enshould fall. Laughter.] tract with the State, and to say titled to remuneration. I wanted to we have so much money that be- offer it before, but I could not get it longs to that individual and we before this committee. I would be glad will make our constituents all rich to have it adopted in order to establish out of it-will they say that in regard those principles of justice and humanity to this individual or any other? Why not permit this question to be submitted to the Legislature, composed of men in whom we repose confidence to make the laws of the State, and who guard the treasury, under the obligation of an oath, with the hundred eyes Mr. MILLER. I would inquire if of the fabled Argus? Why should an amendment to the amendment of they not, when the most indubitable the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. testimony is presented to them, that a CONGER,) or an amendment to that of man has suffered from his honesty in the gentleman from Barry, (Mr. the fulfillment of his contract, be allowed to take some action for his WRIGHT,) is in order? The CHAIRMAN. The question relief? Would we repudiate for the now is upon the substitute offered by Legislature a principle which every the gentleman from Barry, (Mr. man would apply in his own transacWRIGHT,) to the amendment of the tions? Sir, we would scorn, in the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) very highest degree, the imputation which has been modified at the sug- that we would not ourselves be govgestion of the gentleman from St. erned by such a principle in our own Joseph, (Mr. STOUGHTON.) transactions. And will we say here that that man shall pass his whole life long witnessing the State in possession of his money, and himself forever debarred from obtaining relief? I say that it looks to me as if it was utterly impossible that such a thing should be done by this Convention. I am confident that there is no respectable portion of the people of this State who would countenance such a thing for

Mr. BURTCH. I desire to propose a substitute for all these amendments. The CHAIRMAN. No further amendment at the present time is in order.

The question was then taken upon he substitute of Mr. WRIGHT, and it was not agreed to.

The question recurred upon the amendment of Mr. CONGER as modified.

Mr. MILLER. I move to amend the amendment by striking out "1861," and inserting "1867." I wish to inquire why cases arising since 1861 should be made exceptional cases? a moment. Why should not the rule be applied also to meritorious cases during the years preceding 1861? I wish to bring out from the gentlemen who made that proposition their reasons for limiting it to cases arising since 1861. I supposed that we were to create a general rule-a rule which should limit the

Mr. BURTCH. I have not been made acquainted with the hardships of this matter in reference to a certain contractor at Jackson. It may perhaps be all understood by gentleman somewhere outside of this House. there is a lamentable hardship

The CHAIRMAN. The question is

which we are endeavoring to follow, and also to be in keeping with what the gentleman from St. Clair, (Mr. CONGER,) intimated were the principles which have constantly guided me here. I therefore offer the following as a substitute for the amendment:

"By a joint resolution of both Houses of the Legislature, and by submitting the same to the people, relief to contractors may be had, by the people giving a majority in favor of such joint resolution."

The question was then taken upon the amendment of Mr. MILLER to strike out of the amendment of Mr. CONGER, 1861," and insert "1867," and it was not agreed to.

The question was then taken upon the substitute of Mr. BURTCH, and it was not agreed to.

The question then recurred upon the amendment of Mr. CONGER, as

modified, which was as follows:

the members elect of each House, and the approval of the Governor. This exception shall not apply to any case arising prior to the first day of January, 1861."

"-except upon a vote of three-fourths of

Mr. MCCLELLAND. My impression is that it will be necessary to make another change in this amendment, perhaps. I would ask the attorney general, (Mr. STOUGHTON,) whether if a bill shall be passed for this purpose by a three-fourths vote of the Legislature, and be sent to the Governor and returned by him with his objections, the Legislature could then pass it over his veto by a two-thirds vote?

Mr. STOUGHTON. The amendment provides that the approval of the

મ

Governor shall be obtained in all such

cases.

Mr. McCLELLAND.

There is a provision of this article which provides, that if a bill when sent to the Governor shall not be approved by him, it may be passed by the Legislature, notwithstanding his objections, by a twothirds vote. This amendment might be considered as coming within the

Buku

The Debates and Proceedings of the Constitutional Convention of ..., Volume 2