of the when we got through with out pike work and went to work for them a couple of weeks. That was in-about the first—in September, 1917. Mr. DOREMUS. Did you ever haul any lumber from the barracks after they were finished? Mr. BENNETT. No, sir; I never did. Mr. DOREMUS. To the scrap pile, as they call it? Mr. BENNETT. No, sir; I never had anything to do with that. Mr. DOREMUS. But you have seen lumber thrown in scrap piles, as I understand it? Mr. BENNETT. Yes, sir; I have hauled scrap from the scrap piles when we were working down in this little pit in this section W for bonfires to warm by when it was cold weather. Mr. DOREMUS. I see. Do you know what was done with the lumber after it was taken from the different jobs to the scrap pile? Mr. BENNETT. No, sir; I don't know what was done with it. Mr. DOREMUS. Do you know whether any of it was sorted after it was taken to the scrap pile? Mr. BENNETT. Well, now, there was one pile right up here on Cincinnati Avenue that they made a good many little small buildings out of. They sorted that and made a good many small buildings out of it, but I don't know what they used it for. Some of them was on runners and some of them just built and hauled away on trucks; small buildings. Mr. DOREMUS. Do you recall any other instances where lumber was sorted at the scrap pile? Mr. BENNETT. No, sir; I don't know of any other. Mr. DOREMUS. I think that is all. Mr. MCKENZIE. Put on the next witness. TESTIMONY OF MR. EARL BARNHART, CHILLICOTHE, OHIO. (The witness was sworn by Mr. McKenzie.) Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you know Mr. Tragelis or Capt. Tragelis? Mr. BARNHART. Yes, sir. Mr. DOREMUS. What is his name? Mr. McCULLOCH. Give your full name and where you live? Mr. BARHART. Earl Barnhart, 248 East Main Street, Chillicothe, Ohio. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you know Tragelis? Mr. BARNHART. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. What was his first name? Mr. BARNHART. Capt. J. A. is all I knew him by; I think it was J. A. Mr. McCULLOCH. He was not a captain in the American Army, was he? Mr. BARNHART. No; he was a bloody Britisher. Mr. McCULLOCH. He was a what? Mr. BARNHART. Bloody Englishman? Mr. BARNHART. Supposed to be. Mr. McCULLOCH. Had he been a captain in the English Army? Mr. BARNHART. That is what he said he was; something down on the Dardanelles, when they was down in there? Mr. McCULLOCH. In what capacity did you first know him; as working for Bentley in what capacity? Mr. BARNHART. He was supposed to be the general superintendent of transportation. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you know that he was or just hear that? Mr. BARNHART. Well, he was supposed to be the top boss. I had two bosses. Mr. McCULLOCH. What did you work at? Mr. BARNHART. I was truck tracer. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you know of Tragelis receiving or having a Kissel Kar? Mr. BARNHART. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. What kind of a car was it? Mr. BARNHART. It was a roadster, it was, just two-seated-I mean two-passenger; just single seat it was. Mr. McCULLOCH. Was it a new car when he got it? Mr. BARNHART. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. And when was it that he got this car? Mr. BARNHART. Well, I just couldn't say whether it was in the first of September or middle of August; now, I can't just say. Mr. McCULLOCH. And you saw it when he first got it, did you? Mr. BARNHART. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you have a conversation with him about it? Mr. BARNHART. No, sir. He asked me one day to adjust the motor for him: that was all. Mr. McCULLOCH. Now, how long did he have that car? Mr. BARNHART. He had it until I left the employment of the company. Mr. McCULLOCH. About how many months from the time he got it until you left? Mr. BARNHART. Well, I can't say to that because I don't know. Mr. McCULLOCH. Well, was it a considerable time? Mr. BARNHART. Yes; it was. I left about the last week of Sep tember or just before that and went to school. Mr. McCULLOCH. So he still had the car when you left? Mr. BARNHART. Yes. Mr. McCULLOCH. Do you know where he got it? Mr. BARNHART. That is what I said; I didn't know whether it was the middle of August or the first of September. It was along in there some time, while I worked for them. Mr. McCULLOCH. Do you know where he got it? Mr. BARNHART. No; I understood it came from Columbus is all I know. Mr. McCULLOCH. How is that? Mr. BARNHART. I understood it came from Columbus. Mr. McCULLOCH. I think that is all. Mr. DOREMUS. That is all. TESTIMONY OF MR. GEORGE A. SHERMAN, CHILLICOTHE, OHIO. (The witness was sworn by Mr. McKenzie.) Mr. MCKENZIE. Give your name to the stenographer, your full name. Mr. SHERMAN. George A. Sherman. Mr. McCULLOCH. And where do you live? Mr. SHERMAN. One hundred and eighty-two Hern Street. I live there, but at the time I lived right up here at the camp, base hospital. Mr. McCULLOCH. Where do you live now? Mr. SHERMAN. One hundred and eighty-two Hern. Mr. McCULLOCH. Chillicothe? Mr. SHERMAN. Yes, sir. At the time the camp was built I lived right up here at the base hospital. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you work for the Bentley Construction Co. ? Mr. SHERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. In what capacity? Mr. SHERMAN. I worked-I commenced along about the middle of August and Mr. McCULLOCH. As what? Mr. SHERMAN. As carpenter. Mr. McCULLOCH. How long did you work for them then? Mr. SHERMAN. Very near eight weeks. Mr. McCULLOCH. How many men were there in your gang? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, they would average anyway from 20 to 30at different times. Mr. McCULLOCH. How many of them were carpenters? Mr. SHERMAN. Oh, about 10 or 15 of them. I guess; 10 of them. Mr. McCULLOCH. Who was your foreman? Mr. SHERMAN. A fellow by the name of Serviss, from Michigan, was one of them. Mr. MCCULLOCH. Mr. Reichle? Mr. SHERMAN. He was the last foreman I had. I worked under three gangs, three foremen. Reichle and Serviss, and the other foreman I can't recollect his name. Mr. MCCULLOCH. Well, Reichle was a McGrath foreman? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, he worked under Bentley the last-he was with Bentley. Mr. McCULLOCH. Well, did you work for McGrath? Mr. SHERMAN. No, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. Just for Bentley? Mr. SHERMAN. Just for Bentley. Mr. McCULLOCH. What do you say as to whether there were too many men on the job? Mr. SHERMAN. I acknowledge there were about half. Mr. McCULLOCH. About how many too many? Mr. SHERMAN. About the half. Mr. McCULLOCH. What was the result of having too many men on there? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, they was in your road. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did it delay the work? Mr. SHERMAN. Right smart. Mr. McCULLOCH. How much? Mr. SHERMAN. Oh, well, half the men could have done it in just the same time that they all did. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you ever call anybody's attention to the fact that there were too many men there? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, really, I think they all knew it-foremen and all. They could see there were too many men, although they couldn't discharge them. Mr. McCULLOCH. Why? Mr. SHERMAN. It seems like they wouldn't stand for the discharge. Mr. MCKENZIE. Did you ever say anything about that? Mr. SHERMAN, No. Mr. McCULLOCH. What do you know about the discharging of men? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, I wanted to get-I wanted to lay off myself for a couple of weeks or a week, and I had quite a difficult time getting my time off-getting off from the camp. Mr. McCULLOCH. Who did you talk to about it? Mr. SHERMAN. I talked to Mr. Sullivan, the head foreman of the construction. Mr. McCULLOCH. What did he say to you? Mr. SHERMAN. He says: "I can't leave you go." He says: "I need you." Mr. McCULLOCH. Did they need you? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, they got along just as well without me. Mr. McCULLOCH. What else did he say to you; said "I can't let you go" and "I need you"; did he say anything else to you? Mr. SHERMAN. "Well, not as I can remember at the time. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you have a conversation with any other foreman or representative of the Bentley Co. in regard to discharging men, or did you ever hear any of the foremen say anything about the discharging of men? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, no, not particularly. There was two men working on setting windows or putting in windows and, well, I think they was two days putting in about three windows, the two men, and of course, they fired them. Mr. McCULLOCH. Why did they fire them? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, they didn't do enough work for them. Mr. McCULLOCH. Then there was a tendency to have more work done? Mr. SHERMAN. It looks like in that respect. Mr. McCULLOCH. Well, do you know of any other instance where men were fired that were not doing enough work? Mr. SHERMAN. Let's see; well, yes. The last day or so of finishing up the camp they fired a fellow from Chicago. Mr. McCULLOCH. On account of what? Mr. SHERMAN. Just neglect, or not wanting to work, or not working when they ought to have been working. Of course, the gangdidn't have very many gangs on at the time any more, and he told him he didn't care whether he worked or not, wasn't going to work, and they gave him his discharge. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you observe men idling away time? Mr. McCULLOCH. Will you tell us about that? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, there was one fellow they called Big Bill; I don't think he drove over three nails a day. Mr. McCULLOCH. Well, did he get fired? Mr. SHERMAN. No. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did the foreman observe the amount of work he was doing? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, he was always moving, moving, always going from one to the other trying to keep others what wanted to work from working and the foreman never seemed to pay much attention to him, either the Government foreman or the gang foreman. Mr. McCULLOCH. I wish you would tell us now just frankly whether or not in your judgment the men were working on that job. Mr. SHERMAN. Well, there were some, some did. Just naturally didn't care whether they worked or not. Mr. McCULLOCH. Well, did the foreman care whether they worked or not? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, whenever they saw the foreman they moved a little; they would always keep their eye on the foreman. Mr. McCULLOCH. You have said there were too many men on the job? Mr. SHERMAN. There were. Mr. McCULLOCH. And that half of the men could have done what Mr. SHERMAN. They all did. Mr. McCULLOCH. They all did? Mr. SHERMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. McCULLOCH. And that there was some idleness? Mr. SHERMAN. There was. The worst was the plumbers. Mr. McCULLOCH. I want to deal with the carpenters now; you were a carpenter. We have have had a lot of testimony about idling of men here and if they were not idling we want to know it. Mr. SHERMAN. Well, they were. I will acknowledge to that. Mr. McCULLOCH. How much of the time will you say was idled away? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, half of it anyhow. Mr. McCULLOCH. That is considerable. Mr. SHERMAN. It is. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did the foreman and the representatives of the contractor know that these fellows were idling half the time away; the foreman was there, was he? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, he was there part of the time. He would go and come. Of course, when he was gone they didn't do anything. Of course as quick as he came, well, they moved. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did he insist upon them moving. Mr. SHERMAN. Why, on his sight of coming insisted-that made them move. Mr. MCCULLOCH. I am asking you the question. Was the foreman on the job trying to get out of the men all the work he could get out of them all the time or was he consenting to this loafing? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, he didn't urge them or hurry them but he liked to see them move, see them doing something. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did you hear him say he would like to see them doing something? Mr. SHERMAN. Sure. Mr. McCULLOCH. What did he say? Mr. SHERMAN. He said: "Come on, boys, don't stand around all the time; come on." Mr. McCULLOCH. How many foremen did you work under? Mr. SHERMAN. I worked under three. Mr. McCULLOCH. Did they all do that? Mr. SHERMAN. Well, two of them was very industrious for the Government, but the other one I didn't think much of him, and I 169909-20-VOL 2- -13 |