embodied the provision that the Secretary of the Interior suggested in his bill, so far as the same is harmonious with the slight modification of the Indians.

I am desirous of having the views of the Interior Department upon my bill, for the reason that, as I have stated, the people up there became very impatient about the delay, and I did not know how to draw this bill until I knew what the nature of the corporation was. So I have introduced it without further delay. As I say, I intended to submit it to Representative Knutson, whose district embraces part of this land; but he has not been at his office for several days. And I want to get the views of the Secretary of the Interior.

I want to say that I hope the Secretary will not insist upon his original plan, because that would be tantamount to refusing to do anything; that would be tantamount to destroying the whole project, because it is absolutely unworkable and impossible.

Mr. HUMPHREYS. This bill will be referred to him?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; we will get his statement.

Mr. STEENERSON. Very well. Now, I do not know that I can say anything further. This project is a project that is, without question, the most meritorious one that has been under discussion. It has been in contemplation in the service for years and years. I do not know of anyone who is familiar with the facts that is not in favor of it. It is urgent, and I hope the committee will hold another hearing on the subject when we can get the remainder of the information that is desired from the department, and that the committee will then give me an opportunity to make any further statement that may be

necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. We will have a meeting in a very short time, at which you may submit anything further that you desire.

(Resolutions adopted by the joint committee appointed by the Minnesota Legislature, the governor of South Dakota, and the Tri-State and North Dakota Flood Control Association, at Fargo, N. Dak., Dec. 16, 1919, to go to Washington to seek Federal aid from Congress to protect the Red River of the North Valley from floods :)

Moved that it is the sense of this committee that the following questions be presented to Congress by the committee selected by the three States-Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota-to go to Washington in the interests of drainage and flood control:

First. That the Representatives in Congress be urged to secure the passage of a law toward financing drainage and flood control improvements similar to the law now in force applying to the irrigation of arid lands.

Second. That Congress be urged to pass a law establishing a commission with ample appropriation to finance the construction of flood-control projects (reservoirs, channels, improvements, etc.) and to cooperate with a like commission in Canada relating to the Red River of the North and tributaries.

Third. That Congress be urged to make the appropriation recommended by the War Department for the improvement of the Lacquiparle Reservoir recommended by the Corps of Engineers in their report made by Maj. Schunk and contained in House Document No.

(Committee consists of five members of the Minnesota House, appointed by that body; the chief engineer of the North Dakota Flood Control Commission ; delegates from the North Dakota and Tri-State Flood Association; a delegateappointed by the governor of South Dakota.)

It is the consensus of opinion of the North Dakota State Flood-Drainage Commission, the Tri-State Flood Control Association, the Red River Valley Development Association and the North Dakota Flood Control Association that

the Congress of the United States should, during the reconstruction period, take definite, far-reaching measures to prevent the recurrence of the past disastrous flooding of hundreds of thousands of acres in the Red River Valley, in the Dakotas and Minnesota.

It is believed that the merits of the case warrant Federal appropriations of such magnitude as to cover at least a large part of the construction costs of the reservoirs and other controlling works necessary for protection, and which have already been recommended on the basis of repeated surveys by the Depatments of War, Interior, and Agriculture and by the North Dakota and Minnesota Reclamation Commissions.

The area involved is as large as several eastern States, involving directly or indirectly 35,000 square miles-the part of the valley of the Red River of the North in the United States. Nine millions acres will be practically reclaimed. Therefore this is no mere local or State project. The cost of these projects is estimated at $25,000,000.

Therefore, we, the officials of the above-named bodies, urge that you use your utmost efforts to secure the passage of an appropriation by Congress to meet the emergency.

E. S. Keene, president North Dakota Flood Control Commission; A. W. Lindquist, secretary North Dakota Flood Control Commission; E. J. Babcock, W. H. Robinson, and H. P. Halverson, members; Herbert A. Hard, chief engineer; A. B. Kaercher, president Tri-State Flood Control Association; S. M. Sivertson, president Red River Valley Development Association; C. H. Zealand, secretary Red River Valley Development Association; O. E. Blanding, president North Dakota Flood Control Association; Herbert A. Hard, Chairman Executive Committee TriState Flood Control Commission.

Resolution expressing our appreciation of the commercial clubs' activities and courtesies in entertaining the Tri-State and North Dakota Flood Control Associations and facilitating the meeting. We hereby especially thank Secretary

W. P. Chestnut for his assistance and cooperation.

Resolved, That this association immediately inaugurate a campaign of publicity and education for the purpose of interesting the people of the districts affected in the general plan and benefits of flood control in the three States. Resolved further, That we request the State experimental stations, through their county agents and staff generally, to assist to this end.

Resolved further, That the Tri-State Flood Control Association petition the governors of the three States of Minnesota, North and South Dakota to appoint a commission consisting of five members, two each from Minnesota and North Dakota and one from South Dakota, to go before Congress to urge the comprehensive plan of flood control, as recommended by the State and district engineers, to make appropriation to complete the engineering work already under process, and to appropriate funds to construct such dams, reservoirs, and other projects as are necessary.

Resolved further, That the commission urge Congress to submit a reference to the International Joint Commission asking them to investigate and report as to the best means of alleviating the floods in the Red River Valley in Canada and United States.

Above resolutions were unanimously passed by a convention of the Tri-State and North Dakota Flood Control Associations in Fargo December 16, 1919.

HERBERT A. HARD, Chairman Executive Committee. W. P. CHESTNUT, Secretary Tri-State Association.

(Copy of a concurrent resolution passed by recent North Dakota Legislature. The conference was held in Winnipeg, with real results.)

Whereas, the Canadian officials, Federal and provincial, have recently expressed a desire to cooperate with the States in matters of protecting the Red River Valley from floods and to hold a joint conference between properly delegated officials; be it

Resolved by the Senate, the House of Representatives concurring, That we do hereby authorize the governor to appoint one legislator and one citizen at large to cooperate with the State flood commission and its chief engineer and go to Winnipeg for a joint conference with Canadian officials, to arrive at a definite, effective basis of mutual cooperation; be it

Further resolved, That there is hereby appropriated, out of any funds in the State treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $100, or such part thereof as may be needed, to defray the bare traveling expense of the delegates appointed by the governor.

(Thereupon, at 12.45 p. m., the committee adjourned.)

SATURDAY, MARCH 13, 1920.

The committee met at 10.30 a. m., Hon. William A. Rodenberg (chairman) presiding.

There were present before the committee: Mr. O. C. Neuman,. Wheaton, Minn., chairman of the Interim Flood Control Commission of the Minnesota Legislature; Mr. J. D. Ross, Ortonville, Minn.; Mr. O. A. Swenson, Nicollet, Minn.; Mr. F. L. Cliff, Ortonville, Minn.; Mr. C. G. Selvig, Crookston, Minn.; Mr. S. E. Oscarson, of South Dakota.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Mr. STEENERSON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have Mr. Cliff make a statement to the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. My idea is this: These gentlemen want to be heard on this flood control of the Red River and its tributaries. The other hearing that we had on the 18th has not been printed. Now, these gentlemen have come from Minnesota and want the opportunity to present their views; so we can incorporate their remarks with the previous hearing and make it all one record.

Then, Mr. Cliff, we will hear from you first.

Mr. STEENERSON. Senator Cliff, I would say, is a Senator in the Legislature of Minnesota and has had a great deal to do with the drafting of the law under which their drainage district was created, and he has made a special study and is familiar with it. For that reason, I have asked him to appear.

STATEMENT OF MR. F. L. CLIFF, ORTONVILLE, MINN.

Mr. CLIFF. Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, I will take up the bill that is before you, known as the Steenerson bill, first, and briefly outline what we have in mind there and the reasons why we feel that the bill should have the ready indorsement of this committee.

There is no doubt that all States are, to a greater or less extent, situated as Minnesota is. The very fact that Congress has seen fit to create this committee is evidence that a condition of affairs has arisen now, different from what has existed in the past, rendering necessary the consideration of special flood-control propositions. Now, that has been one of the aggravating situations in Minnesota, and for a number of years, just like other States, we have had com

mittees working on improvements of existing laws whereby we can meet the difficult situations that are presented.

One of the things that is particularly difficult in the situation, or contributed to the aggravation, is the fact that all over our country in common we are doing the same thing: We are trying to develop our agricultural resources. We are trying to remove from the land the obstacles to intensified agricultural use of that land, and to do that we have constructed ditches under State laws, and by doing so we have removed a certain amount of the ponds, sloughs, and other obstacles to ready run-off of water that nature supplied, and we are letting this water run loose into the natural channels faster than under former conditions.

The result is that lands along these streams, all over the country that was formerly valuable land, the most valuable in the community and State, is becoming submerged on frequent occasions where it was not under former conditions, and that is due largely to the fact that their accelerated flow accummulates the crest of a flood larger than formerly and more frequently, and is causing damage there, and the State has found it very difficult to handle and meet the condition presented.

We, among others, have extremely difficult situations presented there, and there is probably no more aggravated condition than that of the Red River of the North, where the water flows north, where the land is level, and where the race of the river across that level section spreads out for miles over the bottom. But other States have constructed numerous ditches there to relieve and improve the agricultural condition of the country, and when that water raises to a certain stage it backs right off into the land until last year there were streams there that were 15 or 20 miles wide, spread out over agricultural land, and stock had to be driven out, simply because of the conditions that exist there calling for relief.

Now, in the Red Lake proposition this situation exists. Red Lake in itself is on a high elevation, and when the water accumulates in Red Lake and flows down through its natural channel it occupies the channel of that river and obstructs the water running in there, thereby causing the flooding of the tributaries all over the country. To meet that condition we are aiming to adopt a plan which is probably in advance generally of conditions that are presented in other States; and that is, we find that the permitting of numerous ditches constructed hit and miss, miscellaneously, without order and without system, without a general plan to cover that basin, is the thing that is aggravating the condition, and to organize or to provide for the organization of an entire river basin in one system and coordinate and unite every ditch that forms a part of that basin and the waters from it which flow through the common outlet into one system, just as you would the sewer system of a city-that is the only way that we are going to get this matter in proper shape. But there are numerous difficulties created. In Minnesota we have formulated that kind of a law. We now are prepared, and have organized, the Red Lake Basin, organized in one basin by itself, with the idea of harmonizing the entire flow, with the idea of during the dry season drawing down Red Lake to a certain stage, putting in the proper restraining works there, and in the spring hold back the waters of Red Lake and guide the

channel of the Red Lake River to the tributaries and let that water out.

Now, that is the system that has been adopted on the Red Lake River. There are, I say, difficult matters that confront us, but we have in mind, as the act in Minnesota indicates, which is the conservacy act of Minnesota-we have in mind restraining this flood by the creation of reservoirs wherever we can. We are substituting for nature's miscellaneous reservoirs all over the country one general reservoir; we are aiming as that water flows off, so far as it is practicable, so far as it can be done, to utilize that water for water-power purposes and have it run off at a profit instead of an expense and loss, thereby contributing to the relief of the coal situation.

Now, I notice that the State of Wisconsin, the department of the government has authorized and has actually made a survey of the Chippewa Valley and of some of the other river basins of Wisconsin, with the idea of ascertaining what can be done in this line of flood control and to what extent it can be utilized for water-power purposes to relieve the situation-that is, the coal situation. This we are trying to do and our plan is to coordinate all these ideas of economy and conservation of the natural resources of the State. We are doing that in the case of the Red Lake.

The further fact involved in the Red Lake proposition is that a large portion of Red Lake and a large portion of the teritory immediately beyond the lake as the river passes out is within an Indian reservation. We have negotiated with the Indian Department and with the Interior Department-we have had this lake and the river surveyed by the War Department and the plans generally approved. We have done everything that could be done to meet with any requirements of this committee or any other committee of Congress. We have, I say, agreed with the Indian Department that these lands, through the Indian reservation, shall be assessed for the benefit; shall be drained by their proper channel-just the same as we have lowered Red Lake, and during the dry season in the spring we have got better facilities to let that water into Red Lake, particularly when we shut off the lake at the outlet; the channel is practically empty and will furnish good drainage facilities for the adjoining land. Now, we have their consent for the purpose of permitting the assessment of the Indian lands the same as the other lands, not to exceed $2.50 an acre, and that don't call, gentlemen, for immediate appropriation of any funds: it calls for an authority, however, for the department to use certain funds to meet the payment of the assessments as they come due during a series of years, from 10 to 20 years, which would be a small amount and practically no taxation upon the Government at present.

Now, the territory along the course of this river is as rich as anything in the world. It has been settled up: the crops along it were largely destroyed last year by this water. Our State department of drainage and waters agrees with the War Department that this plan will control those flood waters and will permit the necessary drainage to relieve the adjoining land, and will carry off these waters with the least possible harm to the conditions in the Red River of the North, of which Red Lake River is a tributary; so that there seems to be a complete harmony of agreement between the Engineering Depart