'complement of men in those ships had ' necessary to ensure us a large naval force been increased, in consequence of the whenever it was found necessary. He asexample which had been set us by serted that the disturbance of the seamen those nations, with which we had been at in the North, originated in a quarrel with war.

the colliers, and not from their being paid Mr. Rose was surprised for the first off. time at hearing the Admiralty blained for Lord Milton could not approve of what paying off the navy upon the return of had been said with respect to the necessity peace. He denied that the disturbances of increasing our navy exactly in proporin Northumberland were attributable to i tion to the number of ships fitted out by the discharge of men from his Majesty's other powers. If this was adopted as a service; and as a proof that there was no principle, it would only create a feeling of want of employment for these men, he rivalry; and we might go on adding ship instanced the fact of a frigate, destined to after ship to our navy, on the plea that, convey our ambassador to America, having America, or some other power, was equipbeen detained at Portsmouth for many ping a new ship, till our establishment was days for the want of hands to navigate her increased beyond all bounds, and that of - many other ships being in the same other countries, to an unnecessary amount. condition. The right hon. gentleman | The hon. baronet had said, that in India then generally contended for the expe- there would be no increase of our naval diency of this country maintaining a res- force. It would have been strange, inpectable naval force in time of peace, and deed, to have proposed any increase in adduced various instances in which the that quarter, considering that all the want of such a force had been productive islands and other points from whence our of serious ill consequences to the interests possessions there could be attacked, were of Great Britain-a fact which he said now in our power. The real foundation had been admitted by Mr. Pitt himself, of the power of Great Britain was its comwho had said, that unless we had men merce. This, he thouglit, the true source enough at the beginning of a war to man of the prosperity of the kingdom; and not a fleet, we should be severely wounded navy of 33,000 men. If the naval power in some place or other. Under all the of the country was endangered, the fault circumstances, though no man was more would not be with the naval administra. anxious than himself to economise the tion, but could only arise from the negliexpenditure of the country, he never yet gence of those employed in the foreign saw a plan less exceptionable on that ac- department in not making use of the incount than the present.

formation which they must have it in their Mr. Ponsonby renewed his objections to power instantly to procure, of any increase the proposed establishment. He descanted of the navies of foreign states. The hon. on what had fallen from an hon. gentleman baronet had taken credit to himself (and, on the subject of America. He hoped he was ready to admit, with some reason) that country did not feel those sentiments, for the celerity with which reductions had with respect to England which had been already been made in the navy by paying imputed to it, and lamented that any thing off so many ships. He had therefore only should be said in the House of Commons to hope, that the hon. baronet would conhere, or in congress in America that tinue to exercise his abilities in the same might tend to inflame the two nations way, to a still greuter extent. The noble against each other. The language held lord concluded, with suggesting the pro. by the hon. gentleman had (though he priety of a more limited time for the prowas sure he did not intend it) that ten posed establishments, than the whole of dency, as it appeared to him. He dreaded the year 1816.

. the excitement of a spirit of hostility, as Lord Castlereagh thought, from what he felt that no two countries were so well had passed, that, as far as the vote for fitted to meet on equal terms as friends, that night went, it would not be objected for their mutual advantage, and none pos- to; therefore he would only trouble the sessed greater means of injuring each House with a very few words, as it would other.

be much more satisfactory to reserve the Sir Charles Monck opposed the vote, minuter view of the subject to the proper conceiving, as he did, that the encourage time when it would come before ihe ment of our commerce, and thereby the House. The best general principle in material of our navy, was all that was the formation of a peace establishment

+

It was

must be, to combine security with eco-spirit of imputation against foreign gonomy.

on this principle, that, vernments, which, with whatever intention owing to the unsettled state of the world they might be thrown out, were always at present, it had become necessary, on productive of the worst consequences. many remote stations, to keep up a very | Conjectures on counsels not understood, considerable naval force, for the purpose were ignorantly hazarded, even on matters of inspiring that confidence which was so unconnected with the affairs of this counindispensable to the prosperity of our com- try. He was happy that on this subject merce. The knowledge that there was a he had met with an ally in the right hon. British flag in remote seas, gave to the gentleman opposite (Mr. Ponsonby), and merchant the earnest of security and pro- hoped they would cordially co-operate in tection for carrying on his traffic. "To the encouragement of feelings of friendprevent any danger, the sure way was to ship and good-will between America and give no opportunity for attack, by keeping this country. up a strong force wherever it was most Mr. Ponsonby said, he had never heard probable it could in any case be medi- any expressions on his side of the House, tated. On the particular station alluded calculated to excite jealousy in the mind to by the hon. baronet, it was necessary of any foreign power; if he had, he should to have a strong force for securing the have felt it his duty to reprobate it. safe custody of the individual confined Lord Castlereagh said, it was probable there. As to the establishment at home, the right hon. gentleman was not in the it had been found better, with a view to House on the occasion to which he reeconomy, instead of completely reducing ferred, but he assured him that the genthe fleet and retaining only guard-ships, tleman to whom he had alluded, had to keep the guard-ships at a very low rate, uttered observations which were calculated and to have at the same time other to excite jealousy in every state, with ships fit for service. It was a great which we were in alliance, except Ameadvantage, in every respect, to have rica. ships ready to be sent on foreign service Mr. Forbes entered at some length into at the shortest warning. The noble the subject of remunerating the officers of lord said, he could not sit down without the navy. He complained, that their case adverting to what had fallen from several had never been properly considered by honourable gentlemen in the course of the the House. Much had been said about debate, as to the jealousy to be entertained placing the army and navy on the same towards foreign powers increasing their footing, in the matter of the erection of a navy. He should be sorry if in that monument; but the subject to which he House, or out of doors, any interence was wished the House to direct its attention to be drawn to inculcate a belief that go- was of infinitely greater importance; it yernment entertained any feeling of jea- was, that the officers of the navy should be lousy on this subject towards any foreign placed on the same footing with those of state. As to America, it had been said, the army, as to pay and promotion. He that the people of that country were enlarged on the advantages which the jealous of us; and to a certain extent, country had derived from the navy, whose perhaps, this was said with truth, but at services had absolutely effected the salvathe same time it was to be recollected, tion of the country. He then complained that in this country there existed great of the situation of the officers in that sere prejudices against America. It was his vice, as compared with those in the army, most earnest wish to discountenance this especially contrasting the hard service, feeling on both sides, and to promote be- scanty pay, and tediousness of promotion tween the two nations, feelings of reci- in the case of a midshipman, with that of procal amity and regard. Certainly there a volunteer or ensign in the army. He were no two countries whose interests took occasion strongly to animadvert on were more naturally and closely connected; the remissness of the officers of the navy, and he hoped that the course which the who had seats in that House, in not bringgovernment of each country was pursuing, ing this matter forward, and proposing was such as would consolidate the sub- some addition to the half-pay. Referring sisting peace, and promote harmony be- to the monument which had been voted tween the nations, so as to prevent on to the navy, and the miserable state of its either side the recurrence of any acts of officers, he remarked, that as to what the Animosity. Above all he deprecated the House had done for them, it might be

a

truly said, that when they asked for bread all sides ; but if it should be found that they had given them a stone. Some poor there was any disproportion of advantages naval officer, passing this monument, either on the one side or the other, he might perhaps read his own name inscrib- should be ready to receive any hints that ed upon it, when he had not a shilling in would be given, as far as the present situahis pocket to pay for his dinner. The tion of the country would admit. army was amply provided for, and he was

Mr. Forbes denied that he had ever enheartily glad to see it; but he was very tertained a disposition to sow dissentions much afraid that the day might be long between the army and navy; he was inlooked for before the navy was put upon capable of conduct so base. the same footing.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer did The Chancellor of the Exchequer ob- not impute to the hon. gentleman any served, that in the course of the debate thing so base as a deliberate intention to those discussions had very properly been excite jealousies, but wished he had well deprecated, which tended to excite a considered the subject before he had feeling of jealousy towards foreign powers. brought it forward in the way he had What, then, was to be said of those who done. inconsiderately threw out what could only Sir Joseph Yorke was much surprised tend to excite dissentions between the two at hearing the hon. gentleman state that great classes of the public service? The there was no officer in that House who on hon. member who spoke last, had no right any occasion came forward and took part to conclude, that although no addition in endeavouring to benefit the officers of had at this time been proposed to the the navy, and considered that hon. genhalf-pay of the navy, that it was not pro- tleman was bound to apologize in a parposed to increase the pensions. If the liamentary way to the House, for his obhon. gentleman had only waited until the servations to that purport. proper time, when this subject would be Lord Palmerston reminded gentlemen brought before the house, he would have that the navy had received pensions for heard, what he was now happy to state wounds which the army did not do till that government had given to the navy 1811; but as far as possible both services what would place them on exactly the had been put precisely upon the same same footing with the army. But even if footing. the hon. gentleman, with the means of Mr. Forbes again, in explanation, obinformation open to him, had inquired, he served that he had before said that offiwould have found, that by comparing the cers in that House had taken no part on half-pay of the navy now with what it had this subject on the present occasion. The formerly been, it was as great as it could hon. admiral had risen that night, and he be made, and equal in proportion to the hoped to see him rise and do his duty increase made in the army. It was, how upon all future occasions. In his own ohever, he was aware, impolitic entirely to servations he perceived nothing improper assimilate the services. He only desired or unparliamentary, nor any thing which that gentlemen would take the pains, be- required an apology to the hon. admiral, fore they made their declarations in the or any other person in the House. House, to see how the matter stood with Admiral Moorshem said, that although regard to former years, and it would be neither himself nor the other naval officers seen that in many cases the navy had in that House were in the habit of particimuch the advantage of the army. These pating often in the debates; yet they were were, however, subjects which would in a not idle elsewhere. As a proof of this, in few days come under discussion, and the last year, 1000 midshipmen, without therefore this premature debate could not favour or partiality, had been promoted to be too much deprecated. He could an- the rank of lieutenants, according to the swer for the government, that it was their length of their service. earnest desire to do justice to both Mr. Forbes was quite satisfied with this branches of the service; but he would last statement. Had he known the fact remind the House how easy it was for sooner, he would not have agitated the gentlemen to lavish away the public subject. money in detail, and complain of it in the The several resolutions were then agreed gross. Every one must be aware of the to. difficulty of arranging such a subject as the present, with fairness and justice on COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.] The House having resolved itself into a necessary, unless the office of vice-chan. Committee of Ways and Means,

cellor was to be a permanent one; and The Chancellor of the Exchequer ob- against its permanency he must strongly served, that in the present thin appear- protest on the same grounds on which he ance of the House, it was not his inten- had formerly protested against its institu. tion to enter into any lengthened state- tion. The office had turned out to be ment; he should confine himself to the productive of greater inconveniences than bare mention of the nature of the diffe- he had himself expected; and as to any rent propositions to which he showd call assistance to the chancellor, he could say, upon them to assent. It was his intention, that not one original cause had been tried in the first place, to move the ordinary in the minor court. As to the indecorum annual taxes, and next, in order to defray of having no place of sitting except one the expenditure voted in the committee that was lent, it was an indecorum to of supply, to move an issue of eleven mil- which the greatest chancellors lords lions of exchequer bills. There were two Hardwicke, Camden, and Thurlow, had others sums of four millions and a half, submitted without any diminution of the and one million and a half, but he should dignity of their characters. reserve them for a future consideration.

Lord Castlereagh insisted that the office He should merely hint, that it had been had at least been beneficial in one respect, usual to make part of the grant of one as it had allowed the chancellor sitting in year applicable to the expenses of the the court of supreme resort to decide a next. The right hon, gentleman then great many more appeals than he had moved, first, the ordinary war taxes on done in former years.

For the three malt, &c.; next, the ordinary annual taxes years preceding the appointment of the on pensions, offices, &c.; and lastly, the new office, the average number of appeals issue of eleven millions of exchequer bills: tried was 24; for the three years since -all these resolutions were agreed to, and the appointment, the average was 65. the House resumed.

And though it might be true, that no

original causes had been settled by the COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE ACCOMMOvice-chancellor, yet he had disposed of a DATION FOR COURT OF CHANCERY.] vast deal of business which must otherThe Chancellor of the Exchequer rose wise have occupied the time of the chanto make his proposed motion for pro-cellor. In the three years he had dis, viding accommodation for the vice- posed of no less than 17,000 different chancellor. It was, he apprehended, proceedings. Upon the whole, he could merely necessary to state the inconvenience not but consider an office useful which to which the vice-chancellor was at pre-tended, in even the smallest degree, to sent subject, to induce the House to agree prevent delay in the administration of justo his motion. He would not dwell on tice; and of the delay of the chancery the indecorum of the first law officer in court some idea might be formed, when the kingdom having no accommodation for he assured the House that the balances the transaction of business except what now lying undisposed of in that court was gratuitously allowed him, for it was amounted to 30 millions. well known that he sat merely by permis- Sir Samuel Romilly fully allowed the sion in Lincoln's-Inn; but he must call to extent of the evil of delay. the consideration of the House, that the Mr. Courtenay, Mr. Wrottesley, and

, vice-chancellor had no place for business, Mr. Wetherall argued, that it was agreed except a room so small as to be injurious on all hands that some assistant to the to the health of those who practised in it. chancellor was necessary for the disHe should not propose any particular patch of business, and that assistant, what. mode of accommodating this law officer, ever he was, ought to have a room for the nor should he point out any fund to be transaction of his business. applied to that purpose, but he should The motion was then agreed to, and a move generally, " That a select committee committeee was appointed. be appointed, to consider of the means of affording accommodation for transacting - the business of the court of chancery.”

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir Samuel Romilly objected to the mo

Thursday, February 15. tion, because he conceived any accommo. PETITION FROM THE CORPORATION dation of the kind contemplated to be un- OF LONDON RESPECTING Tithes.] The

sheriffs of London presented at the have amounted to if they had been calcubar, a petition from the Lord Mayor, lated according to the provisions of the Aldermen, and Commons, of the city of first-mentioned act, or what would have London, in common council assembled, been payable if the last-mentioned act setting forth,

had not been made; and that the petia “ That an act was passed in the 37th tioners, in consequence of applications year of king Henry 8, intituled, an act made to them by the inhabitants of several for tithes in London ;' and that the said of the parishes of the city of London not act directed that the decree to be made destroyed by fire in 1666, and who are in consequence thereof should, within a not included in the act of king Charles 2, certain period, be inrolled in the high caused an investigation of the tithes pays. court of chancery, and should remain and able in the said parishes to be made be as an act of parliament, and should by a committee of common council, frorn bind as well all citizens and inhabitants of whose report the petitioners are convinced the said city and liberties for the time that the said tithes are levied with great being, as the parsons, vicars, and curates inequality; and that, by the prosecution of of the parishes within the said city, and the claims of the clergy, with a view to their successors for ever, according to the their increase to the extent specified in effect, purport, and intent of the said order the said decree, numbers of the citizens and decree so to be made and enrolled; and inhabitants of the said city (many of and that the petitioners have caused dili- whom are tenants of the estates of the gent search to be made for the enrolment petitioners in the said parishes) have been of the said decree in the records of rolls harassed and oppressed by vexatious and chapel, but no such decree can there be expensive law-suits; and that the petifound, and, upon inspecting the original tioners, anxious to put an end to a sysof the said act of parliament in the office tem that appeared pregnant with dangers of the clerk of the parliaments, it does to our national establishment, and likely not appear that any such decree is either to engender discord and animosity, en annexed thereto, or to be found amongst deavoured to open a negociation with the the records in the said office; the peti- several persons interested in the tithes of tioners have, however, found that a de- the said several parishes, with a view to eree made under the authority of the said an amicable arrangement upon liberal act was registered in the bishop of Lon- terms, but which has been constantly don's registry on the 25th of February evaded or rejected; and praying the 1545, by which decree the yearly sum of House to take the premises into their sixteen pence was directed to be paid for serious consideration, and grant such just every ten shillings rent of all houses, and equitable relief as the nature and cir. shops, warehouses, cellars, and stables, cumstances of the case shall appear to the within the said city, and the sum of two House to require." shillings and nine pence for every twenty Ordered to be referred to a committee. shillings rent of such houses, and other buildings; and that, by an act passed in PetitioN FROM LONDON RESPECTING the 22nd and 230 years of king Charles 2, Auction Rooms. ] The sheriffs also intituled, " an act for the better settle- presented a Petition from the corporation ment of the maintenance of the parsons, of London, setting forth, vicars, and curates in the parishes of the “ That frauds and deceptions are car. city of London burnt by the late dreadful ried on to a considerable extent by means fire there,” it was recited that the tithes of numerous auction rooms for the sale in the said city were levied and paid with of manufactured goods in small lots, in great inequality, and it was thereby en various parts of the metropolis, and most acted that a yearly sum of money, in lieu of the provincial towns, to the great in. of tithes, should be levied on the inha- jury of the manufacturer, the fair trader, bitants of certain parishes in the said city and the public in general; and that they destroyed by the said fire; and that the have long become an intolerable public annual sums directed by the last-men- | nuisance, not only by the number of pertioned act to be paid to the several par- sons collected together, and the cheats sons, vicars, and curates of the said pa- and deceptions there practised, but by rishes, in lieu of tithes, were, from the the powerful inducements they hold out best information the petitioners are able to swindling, to unprincipled persons to to obtain, very far below what they would obtain goods upon credit to defraud their