Tariff Duties.

Let it not be again repeated, that "an unprincipled bama were inserted for the purpose of calling the attencombination has been practised upon the South." On tion of the Secretary to the language of his report, and the subject to which I have now alluded, I know that no should, therefore, most properly be retained. one will charge me as a party to any such combination. The truth is, the South, though a minority, has always ruled the North, and always will. When our nullifiers in the last war threatened resistance to the United States laws, as unconstitutional, they were to be hanged under the second or some other section. But now, if the South does all that, and more, it is "a crisis." What was then "moral treason" is now dignified by the name of the Secretary in his annual report. "a crisis."

Mr. POINDEXTER would simply remark that, in Sir, I regret that I have travelled so wide of the imme-adopting the resolution as it then stood, the Senate would diate question. I should not have done it, but that the refer the Secretary to his own language in general terms. Senator from North Carolina wandered, and I, to answer This, he thought, was all that was necessary. him, was compelled to do the same thing.

JANUARY 7, 1833.]

PUBLIC LANDS.

Public Lands.

The Senate then proceeded to the special order of the day, being Mr. CLAY's bill for appropriating the proceeds of the public lands for a limited term, &c.

The question being on the amendment reported by the Committee on Public Lands, which substitutes a new bill, reducing the price of public lands,

[SENATE.

have delegated powers to the Federal Government, and amongst these delegated powers, is not one authorizing Congress to enter into compacts with them, by which State authority can be restricted, or by which federal power or influence can be increased. In such States, (as distinguished from other States) the Federal Government claims no right, nor does it possess the means of influencing, in the slightest degree, the progress of agriculture, or the growth of population: but such States, and the people thereof, themselves enjoy, and extend to others, the opportunity of enjoying all their natural advantages of soil and climate, without control on the part of any other people or government.

Mr. KANE, of Illinois, rose and said, that the principles and details of this bill had been so fully examined and developed at a previous session, that he could not consent to waste time by repeating the various arguments which had been urged with a perspicuity and force which he could not imitate. With other gentlemen from the new Any portion of the lands of proprietors in such States States, said Mr. K., I feel the great difficulties under is liable to be taken for public uses in such modes as such which we labor in our attempts to oppose the passage of States may prescribe. In such States Congress cannot rethe bill. They are, indeed, of the most discouraging gulate the price of real estate, nor can its value be regukind. The bill has once received the sanction of this lated with any view to the interests or wishes of propriebody; a majority, after long and patient examination, have tors of lands in other States.

approved it. The opinion has not only been formed, but Now, sir, on the other hand, look at the comparative expressed, that it is a measure demanded by the general condition of the new States in these respects. The fedeinterest. Added to this, its provisions are of the most ral authorities, under the forms of compacts, have imposfascinating character. It appeals to the pride and inter- ed upon them, at a time when their population was small, ests of the States separately; to the avarice and self-love and when that population was subjected to all the disabiof the individuals composing those States. The report of lities of a Territorial Government, conditions depriving the Committee on Manufactures accompanying the bill, them of the most essential powers of useful and prosperconcludes with the most imposing display which the ex- ous States. The proprietors of nineteen-twentieths of our perience of man could suggest: a statement in figures soil cannot be taxed for any purpose of public convenieasily read, and readily comprehended, showing to each ence whatever; and let the public necessities be ever so of the States the sum, in dollars, to be received under the urgent, not one foot of it can be appropriated for public beneficent purposes of the bill. How are such appeals use, at any equivalent designated by State authority. Not to be resisted? Persons in the older states are told by the even a road can be opened through these vast extents of report, that if the land in the new States is reduced in territory without subjecting our citizens to prosecution. price, their own possessions must fall in value. The cis- If such things have been done, and no prosecutions instimontane States are warned of dangers to be apprehended from emigrations, and a frightful picture is presented to them of the decay of their relative strength and consequence in the Union.

Yet, Mr. President, the representatives from the new States, against such fearful odds, feel it their duty to try once again to avert the calamities which they sincerely believe this bill calculated to visit upon their constituents --once again to show the injustice of fixing the future condition of the younger portion of the confederacy with an exclusive view to the interests of the older.

tuted, our citizens are indebted to the mercy and forbearance of our overshadowing landlord; for we are bound not to interfere with the primary disposition of the soil. The effect of this ownership of so large a portion of our territory under the restrictions imposed upon us, is still more serious in another point of view. Our destiny is in the hands of those whose interests are in essential points adverse to ours. This fact cannot be more satisfactorily established than by a reference to the report of the Committee on Manufactures.

This report declares: "The influence of the reduction Sir, we have heard much upon this floor with regard to of the price of public lands would probably be felt througha claim of right on the part of the new States to the land out the Union--certainly in all the Western States, and within their limits. This claim has been denounced in no most in those which contain, or are nearest to, the public measured terms, as grasping, with a sacrilegious hand, at lands." Again: "There ought to be the most cogent and property acquired for the common benefit, by the com- conclusive reasons for adopting a measure which might mon blood and treasure of the nation. "Fearful alarms" seriously impair the value of the property of the yeomanry have been sounded in the ears of our fellow-citizens, and of the country." And again: "The greatest emigration strong prejudices have been infused into their bosoms on that is believed now to take place from any of the States, account of a claim so monstrous and daring. One would is from Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee. The effects of have supposed that a claim resting solely upon conven- a material reduction in the price of the public lands would tional and constitutional ground, could be asserted with- be, 1st, to lessen the value of real estate in those three out reproach, discussed without alarm, and decided with- States; 2d, to diminish their interest in the public domain out bloodshed. It is a matter which refers itself only to as a common fund for the benefit of all the States; and, the decision of a peaceful constitutional tribunal, where 3dly, to offer what would operate as a bounty to further the scales of justice are influenced only by pure intentions emigration from those States, occasioning more and more and enlightened reason.

But it is no part of my intention to discuss this mooted abstract question. I wish neither to subject myself, unnecessarily, to the anathemas which have been so profusely heaped upon other gentlemen, nor to place myself in a condition to feel compelled to revisit these anathemas upon the motives or conduct of others. I go for the fact, and shall appeal to the candor of all who admit its truth, that the new States are not upon an "equal footing" with the old, with regard to their rights and liberties.

The old States are under no control except such as they have imposed upon themselves by their own constitutions of State Government, and except so far as they

lands, situated within them, to be thrown into market; thereby not only lessening the value of their lands, but draining them both of their population and currency." The plain English of this language is, that the price of lands within the new States ought not to be reduced, because the value of lands in other and older States will be thereby diminished, and because the people of the older States may find it their interest to remove from the old to the new States. And as the older States have the power in their hands, they should so use it as to advance themselves; and that our interests and prosperity are not only subordinate considerations, but that they are to be checked, if necessary, in order to preserve the ascenden

SENATE.]

Public Lands.

[JANUARY 7, 1833.

to come, and that it ought to be distributed amongst the several States. This course is, moreover, supposed to be just, because the revolutionary war "was waged with united means, with equal sacrifices, and at the common expense."

cy of wealth and population in the older States. Under shall secure to it a perpetuity of at least five hundred years such circumstances, can the new States be upon an equal footing with that of the old? Our delightful and healthy climate is not to be visited, nor are our fertile lands to be cultivated, except upon terms which may accord with the pride and avarice of other States. The poor and the enterprising of the older States are to be chained to a sterile soil, to serve the ends of avarice, or the purposes of an ambition not chastened by a spirit of philanthropy. The designs of a beneficent Providence must be frustrated to keep up the price of the real estate of individuals, and the numerical consequence of the older States.

Shall we be told, in answer to these statements, that Congress have, and will continue, to act justly and liberally towards us. Gentlemen who repose themselves upon such an answer should consider that their opinions may not be impartially formed; that their sentiments and actions, in common with the rest of the human race, may be influenced by State pride, self-love, and personal interBut our complaint is, Mr. President, that any Government or people whose interests are adverse to ours, should exercise the right of judging for us in these particulars, and not do the same thing with respect to the older States. As long as this state of things shall continue, the new are not upon a footing of equality with the older

est.

States.

It is to be remarked, Mr. President, that there is no proposition before the Senate to cede any of the public lands to the State in which they lie. The bill introduced by the honorable Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. CLAY,] proposes to adhere to the present system of sales, keep the lands at the present price, and to distribute the proceeds amongst the several States, to be by them respectively applied, at their discretion, to education, internal improvement, or colonization of free persons of color. The amendment submitted by the Committee on the Public Lands proposes simply to reduce the price of lands, discriminating in favor of actual settlers; without at all disturbing the existing system of sales, but requiring the money arising therefrom to be paid into the federal treasury to be applied by Congress to the general interests of the whole country. Notwithstanding, sir, there is no such proposition before us for making cessions to the new States either presently or hereafter, yet I have looked into the history of the cessions from the old States for the purpose of ascertaining what were the real motives and inducements of the ceding States; whether it was any part of their intention to create this perpetual money fund for the purpose of distribution, and especially to discover whe ther it was possible that any of the old States demanded these cessions from any other motives than such as sprung from a patriotic determination to secure the independence of the country, and the consolidation of the Union.

Should any further excuse be demanded for renewing again this discussion, I refer to the message of the President of the United States at the commencement of the present session, which, upon a comprehensive view of the general substantial interests of the confederacy, has, for the first time on the part of any Executive Magistrate of this country, declared "It cannot be doubted that the speedy settlement of these lands constitutes the true inter- During the revolution, and about the time of the adop est of the republic. The wealth and strength of a coun- tion of the articles of confederation, some uneasiness was try are its population, and the best part of that popula- discovered on the part of some of the States, on account tion are the cultivators of the soil. Independent farmers of the extensive claims of other States to waste and unare every where the basis of society and the true friends cultivated lands, and as early as October, 1777, it was of liberty." "It seems to me (says the President) to be moved in Congress, "That in order to render the present our true policy that the public lands shall cease, as soon Union and Confederacy firm and perpetual, it is essential as practicable, to be a source of revenue, and that they that the limits of each respective territorial jurisdiction should be sold to settlers in limited parcels, at a price should be ascertained by the articles of confederation." barely sufficient to reimburse the United States the ex- It was also on the same day moved, "That the United pense of the present system, and the cost arising under States in Congress assembled, shall have the sole and exour Indian compacts." A respectful regard for the opi- clusive right and power to ascertain and fix the Western nions of the Chief Magistrate, presenting new views upon boundary of such States as claim to the South Sea, and to this interesting subject, should induce us to review our dispose of all land beyond the boundary so ascertained for own, and to re-examine the foundations upon which our the benefit of the United States." Again: It was at the minds have been brought to different conclusions. Now, same time further proposed, "That the United States in sir, what are the grounds upon which contrary doctrines Congress assembled, shall have the sole and exclusive are held? The report of the Committee on Manufactures, right and power to ascertain and fix the Western boundary of the last session, will serve as the text book for this de- of such States as claim to the Mississippi, or South Sea, velopement. The document takes up the subject of the and lay out the land beyond the boundary so ascertained, lands from the commencement of the revolutionary war, into separate and independent States; from time to time, exhibiting the right of this Government thereto, as deriv-as the numbers and the circumstances of the people ed from the cession of the several States of this Union, thereof may require." These several propositions were and from treaties concluded with foreign Powers, and, voted down in the old Congress by decided majorities. with regard to the first description, declares, "Thus, by The articles of confederation were agreed upon by the the clear and positive terms of these acts of cession, was Congress, containing a proviso, "That no State shall be a great public national trust created and assumed by the deprived of territory for the benefit of the United States," General Government. It became solemnly bound to hold and were submitted to the several States for ratification, and administer the land ceded as a common fund, for the and were eventually ratified by all the States. Four of use and benefit of all the States, and for no other use or these States, however, did endeavor to procure some mopurpose whatever. To waste or misapply this fund, or dification of the provision I have just cited. Maryland to divert it from the common benefit for which it was con- proposed to insert after the provision these words: "The veyed, would be a violation of the trust. The General United States, in Congress assembled, shall have the Government has no more power rightfully to cede the power to appoint commissioners, who shall be fully auland thus acquired to one of the new States, without a fair thorized and empowered to ascertain and restrict the equivalent, than it could retrocede them to the State or boundaries of such of the confederated States which claim States from which they were originally obtained." This to extend to the river Mississippi, or South Sea."--In exreport, especially when taken in connexion with explana-planation of this proposition it was urged by Maryland, tions furnished by its author, [Mr. CLAY,] urges that this that States with "overgrown" possessions might be incitfund is to be converted into money, after a mode which ed, by a superiority of wealth and strength, to oppress, by

JANUARY 7, 1833.]

Public Lands.

[SENATE.

open force, their less wealthy and less powerful neigh-provement, or colonization? The report of the Commitbors: that the relative importance of Maryland would be tee on Manufactures repeatedly declares, that these lands small, and that "its wealth and consequence in the scale are a common fund, for the common benefit of all the of confederated States would sink of course." That State States. And yet the bill before you proposes to distriin-isted "that a country unsettled at the commencement bute it for the separate benefit of each of the States. If of the war, claimed by the British Crown, and ceded to the acts of cession have made the fund a common one, it is it by the treaty of Paris, if wrested from the common common yet: for the constitution declares, that "all debts enemy by the blood and treasure of the thirteen States, contracted and engagements entered into before the adopshould be considered as a common property, subject tion of this constitution, shall be as valid against the United to be parcelled out by Congress into free, convenient, States under this constitution as under the confederation." and independent Governments." The State of New Where, then, is the authority for this distribution to be Jersey expressed her disappointment in finding no pro- found? shall we find it in the constitution? If these lands vision made in the confederation for empowering the are an object of such magnitude to the interests of the Congress to dispose of the vacant and impatented lands, nation as is represented, and it was intended to raise therecommonly called crown lands, for "defraying the ex- from a perpetual revenue, it is singular that some more penses of the war," and complained that she would special provision is not found in the constitution with "be left to sink under an enormous debt," whilst others regard to them. The power of Congress over them is would be enabled, in a short time, to replace their ex- not found in that general list of powers conferred upon penditures from the hard earnings of the whole confede- that body by that instrument: but we find the only clause racy. Two other States, Rhode Island and Delaware, in reference to the lands attached to the third section, were also dissatisfied with the provision in the articles of upon the subject of the admission of new States into the confederation, with regard to vacant territory claimed by Union; that clause is: "The Congress shall have power some of the States. The objections of all, however, were to dispose of, and make all needful rules and regulations overruled, and the articles were ratified, without amend respecting, the territory or other property belonging to ment, by the objecting States. the United States." Is it pretended that, by this language, From all the examination I have been enabled to make an authority is conferred upon Congress to apply the into this branch of the subject, I have come to the conclu- money accruing from such disposition in any mode not sion that no one of the original States ever claimed to specially pointed out by the constitution, or that this interfere with these lands, except upon the grounds that money is not as much a part of the general revenue as that its own security and consequence required that its sister derived from imposts? Where, then, I ask again, do you States should not be so extensive in their territory, as to find the right of dividing the money amongst the States, be overshadowing, and that "crown lands" should form for their separate benefit? This bill not only proposes a fund to be appropriated towards the expenses of the to divide the money amongst the States, but authorizes war. I find it no where intimated that this fund should the States, at their election and at their discretion, to be perpetual, reaching through after ages, for the pur- apply it to any object which can be classified under pose of enriching the treasuries of the several States. I the general heads of education, internal improvement, am sustained in this view of the subject by some positive or colonization. I have always understood, Mr. Presi testimony. The Legislature of the State of New York dent, the received opinion to be, that the people and was the first, in point of time, to move in an attempt to States of this Union selected their members of Conreconcile the difficulties which had grown up on this sub-gress requiring of them the exercise of their best ject. That Legislature must have understood, in their judgments in carrying into effect the powers conferred fullest extent, the objects and claims of the several States; upon them by the constitution. But now it seems, sir, and in the preamble to their act of cession, they say, that Congress are to select twenty-four deputies, or agents, "And whereas, the articles of confederation and perpe- whose business it will be to relieve that body from the tual union, recommended by the honorable Congress of trouble of thinking and acting upon the subject of expendthe United States of America, have not proved acceptable ing the public money. The bill does not even confine to all the States, it having been conceived that a portion these agents in selecting objects of expenditure to such as of the waste and uncultivated territory, within the limits are for the general benefit. I have been always in favor or claims of certain States, ought to be appropriated as a of a well-regulated system of internal improvements, but common fund for the expenses of the war." Again, sir, never felt justified in expending public money upon any Congress, with a view of removing the embarrassments object which was not, in my judgment, of general imporrespecting the Western country, recommended to the tance to the whole country; but in voting for this bill, I States a liberal surrender of a portion of their territorial am not required to be satisfied of the general importance claims, since they cannot be preserved entire without of the object; indeed, I am not required to know any endangering the stability of the general confederacy." thing about the object, for I am to transfer my discretion Other States, in making cessions, use more general lan- to an agent, who will take all such trouble off my hands. guage, but to none does the idea seem to have been pre- Can it be possible, Mr. President, that Congress can consent, that these lands were to be used as a perpetual fund. stitutionally delegate the high power of appropriating The first great purpose was, to destroy the jealousy of the money from the national treasury, and of applying it to smaller States, on account of the extended territory of the constitutional purposes, to any agent whatever? larger, and a second object was to make some provision The States, if they choose, may, under this bill, apply for aiding in defraying the expenses of the war. If I am their share of this money to the colonization of free percorrect in my interpretation of the objects of these ces- sons of color. As to the condition of this class of our sions, and of the spirit of the compacts, it would seem that population, I trust I feel as an individual citizen possessthese lands, after the debt of the revolution was discharging ordinary feelings of humanity should feel; but surely, ed, should have been permitted to follow the sovereignty the State I represent, as a community, can have little inof the States in which they are situated. terest in this matter; and under what particular clause of the constitution this application of the common funds can be justified, I leave for those who support the bill to point out. Surely the compacts between this Government and the ceding States contemplated no such proceeding. Is it believed that either Virginia, North or South Carolina, or Georgia, had colonization in view, when they

But, Sir, admitting, for the sake of argument, that an additional motive for these cessions was the formation of a money fund, to reach down through all time, for the "common benefit" of all the States; upon what principle is the right claimed to distribute the fund amongst the several States, for the purposes of education, internal im

VOL. IX.-5

SENATE.]

Public Lands.

[JANUARY 7, 1833.

made the cessions? Nay, sir; is it not known, as far as in a similar declaration on his part. The bill had undersuch a thing can be known, that if either of those States gone an ample discussion at the last session; there had had understood that the lands ceded were to be thus ap- been but a slight change since that time in the construcpropriated by the Federal Government, the cessions tion of this body; and it would be unnecessary again to go would not have been made by them? There is one fea- over the whole ground of argument which had once and ture in this bill so objectionable, that it is difficult to ac- so recently been employed. The bill which he had incount for its introduction. I speak of that part of it which troduced at the present session, and which had been sent authorizes the States to apply this money to the redemp- to the Committee on Public Lands, was identically the bill tion of any existing debt contracted for internal improve- which had already once passed this body; and the grounds ments. In the first place, let me inquire whether any being the same, it would not be necessary to consume Senator claims to know the kind of improvements made much time in the observations he felt himself called upon in each of the States, and the debts thereby created? Are to make. He would, however, avail himself of the opwe prepared to say that no State has improved injudi- portunity to offer a few general observations, with a view ciously, or at an extravagant cost? If works of improve- to a comparison of the bill which he had introduced, with ment have been commenced or completed by the States, the amendment of the Committee on Public Lands. which have proved worthless, is the "common benefit" In the first place, he would describe the bill which he consulted by paying for them? It appears to me, that had brought forward. Congress should at least so dispose of a fund termed sacred by the Committee on Manufactures, as not to throw it away in paying debts for works which have not benefited any body. This "national trust" is not in good faith discharged by throwing the money into the ocean, nor by applying it to objects of the character of which we are profoundly ignorant.

By this bill it was proposed to set apart, for the benefit of the new States, twelve and a half per cent. out of the aggregate proceeds, in addition to the five per cent. which was now allowed to them by compact, before any division took place among the States generally. It was thus proposed to assign, in the first place, seventeen and a half per cent. to the new States, and then to divide the whole of Upon the whole, Mr. President, I am opposed to the the residue among the twenty-four States. And, in order bill, as hostile to the interests of the new States, as calcu- to do away any inequality among the new States, grants lated to perpetuate a feeling in the other States adverse are specifically made by the bill to those which had not to our advancement in population, and our progress in received, heretofore, as much land as the rest of the new agriculture, as in effect partitioning three-fourths of our territory amongst other sovereign States, giving to each a separate and immediate interest in the proceeds of the lands, and thereby forever precluding the hope of lessening the price of lands to actual settlers. I object to its passage, because it violates the obligations of solemn compacts, and the constitution of the United States.

A few words, sir, upon the amendment reported by the Committee on the Public Lands.

This amendment proposes to reduce the price of lands which have already been offered for sale, and which remain unsold, from one dollar and a quarter to one dollar. It further proposes to permit any person, from any part of the United States, or from any part of the world, who is disposed to settle and cultivate land, to purchase a quarter section, and no more, by paying down half a dollar in cash per acre, provided that he shall reside on and cultivate the same for five consecutive years.

States, from the General Government, so as to put all the new States on an equal footing. This twelve and a half per cent. to the new States, to be at their disposal, for either education or internal improvement, and the residue to be at the disposition of the States, subject to no other limitation than this, that it shall be at their option to apply the amount received either to the purposes of education, or the colonization of free people of color, or for internal improvements, or in debts which may have been contracted for internal improvements. And with respect to the duration of this scheme of distribution proposed by the bill, it is limited to five years, unless hostilities shail occur between the United States and any foreign Power; in which event the proceeds are to be applied to the carrying on such war with vigor and effect against any commen enemy with whom we may be brought in contact. After the conclusion of peace, and after the discharge of the debt created by any such war, the aggregate funds to return to that peaceful destination to which it was the inten tion of the bill that they should now be directed, that is, to the improvement of the moral and physical condition of the country, and the promotion of the public happiness and prosperity.

I will not detain you by repeating what I have heretofore said upon the expediency of this proposition. The bill, sir, of the honorable Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. CLAY,] preserves the present system of sales and lands at their present price, and requires the proceeds to be paid into the treasury for the purpose of after distribution. Such are the general features of the bill which was reThe amendment adheres to the existing system, reducing ported by the Committee on Manufactures, under circumthe price, and requires the proceeds to be paid into the stances to which he would not now advert, at the last sesgeneral treasury, to be applied by Congress to the gene- sion, and was passed; and which was introduced by him ral good, under the solemn obligations imposed upon that again at the present session, had been referred to the body by the constitution. The single alternative pre- Committee on Public Lands, and reported by that comsented by the bill and the proposed amendment is, will mittee, with the amendment sow under consideration. you have distribution amongst the States, or a reduction The first remark which seemed to him to be called for in price of a portion of the public lands?

in reference to this subject, was as to the expediency, he I cannot conclude without pressing upon your attention would say the necessity, of its immediate settlement. On one further consideration. The new States are not now this point he was happy to believe that there was a unanirepresented in Congress according to their present popu- mous concurrence of opinion in that body. However they lation. Is it requiring too much to ask a delay in the de- might differ as to the terms on which the distribution of cision of this all-important question, until our augmented these lands should be made, they all agreed that it was a representation under the late census can be heard? If this question which ought to be promptly and finally, he hoped bill must pass, let it at least be done with this appearance amicably, adjusted. No time more favorable than the preof justice. sent moment could be selected for the settlement of this Mr. CLAY rose and said, that he had a few observa-question. The last session was much less favorable for tions to make to the Senate before the question was taken. the accomplishment of this object; and the reasons were The Senator from Illinois had, in the commencement of sufficiently obvious, without any waste of time in their his remarks, told the Senate that it was not necessary to specification. If the question were not now settled, but occupy their attention long, and he (Mr. C.) concurred if it were to be made the subject of an annual discussion,