JAN. 21, 1833.]

Public Lands.

[SENATE.

ing, be then thrown suddenly together, its tendency is to them. But I will not enumerate; let any man reflect for form, for a time, a violent, disorderly, and immoral mass, a moment upon the necessities of the most simple comuntil the elements have time to separate, the parts which munity; and he will be surprised at the insufficiency of have affinities to combine and unite with each other, and the number thus excepted from agricultural pursuits to thus gradually give union and coherence to the whole. supply their most pressing wants. I know it may be, in But when our settlements form themselves gradually, the some measure, explained by the fact, that many of our evils of the change are less sensibly felt; the few indivi- artisans have their small freeholds, and mingle agricultuduals who are thrown together, impelled by mutual wants, ral labor with their other employments. Still they must unite at once in friendship and affection, and lay the have their journeymen; and, if they are farmers, their foundation of a society whose basis is mutual good will; laborers; so that, on the whole, the smallness of the numand each new emigrant, as he comes, falls in and forms a ber is almost incredible. If, however, it be accurate, part of that society. For the peace and morals of the (and from its official character it is entitled to credit,) it new emigrants, it is better that they should not be too ra- should induce us to beware that we make not the evil pidly and suddenly transferred to the Western lands. It worse. Certain it is, that no direct or indirect bounties is better, too, for the comforts of the emigrants, that from the Government are necessary to induce our peothis transfer be not too rapid; the few that go in advance ple to become cultivators of the soil. Supply them with depend on the other advanced settlements, for a time, for a market for their produce, and my word for it, their prothe comforts, and even the necessaries of life; while they, ductions will keep pace with every wish, however unin their turn, having become fixed, and with improve- bounded. No, sir, it is not necessary to legislate to make ments about them, contribute their aid to sustain the still men become farmers; but to give those who are farmers more recent adventurer who settles near, or pushes by the means of acquiring, by their industry, comfort and ininto the wilds beyond them. It will be at once perceived dependence. that there are, thus, limits beyond which emigration cannot extend without discomfort and privation.

Before proceeding to note what I consider the last and greatest evil of the proposed reduction, I wish to offer a But sir, the agricultural States in the West would few words explanatory of my views of the extent to suffer more heavily in another respect from the new and which these amendments go; how far they, in fact, reduce increased impulse proposed to be given to emigration by the price of lands; and in what manner their particular a reduction of the price of public lands, if we suppose mode of reduction operates. it to have the proposed effect of increasing emigration. The amendments proposed by the Committee on PubThe markets for all the vendible products of the West lic Lands reduce the price of all lands at once to one are on or near the sea-coast, extending from New Orleans dollar per acre, and all lands, when purchased by actual to Boston; the whole extent of that country, whether, as settlers, to fifty cents. The effect of this is at once a rein the South, it furnish sugar, cotton, or rice plantations, duction of all the land to fifty cents per acre. For land, or, as in the North, the various manufactories with which abundant as it is, the quantity held by the United States they abound, their laborers consume our products and being inexhaustible for ages to come, can never, in our furnish our principal if not our only market. But if, by border countries, be purchased under this law for any any means, we induce those laborers to migrate and set-purpose but immediate occupation. No man, who wishes tle on our fertile lands, do we not at once, by this very to provide for his future family, will purchase lands at act, take away the market for our produce? Every fa- one dollar, when that lying all around him is sold to the mily, which, by your bounties of land, you entice from actual occupant at half that price. The value, the curthe East to the West, takes one from the number of those rent value of the article in market, to those who wish to who buy our staples, and adds one to the number of those use and occupy, will be the value at which public opinion who compete with us in their production. Thus, all that will rate it, and no man who has money to lay out will our statesmen have done, for years past, in building up a go beyond that value; so that it would be equivalent to a market for our farmers, would be at once swept away general reduction to fifty cents per acre. and destroyed by a single act of improvident legislation. The consequence of this would be to take off univerIn the present state of our country, the inducements to sally from all real estate in the Western country to a like agricultural pursuits are strong-too strong, perhaps, for amount per acre, whether it belonged to the States, or to the most perfect prosperity of an entire community, es- individuals; and whether it were improved or unimproved, pecially as they are obvious and direct, and its disad- it would all go down. As to the unimproved lands lying vantages and embarrassments are the indirect conse- in the States of Ohio and Indiana, for instance, the lands quence of the very inducements themselves. So many granted by Congress to Ohio to aid in the construction of engage in the occupation of farming, that the other em- her great works of internal navigation, if Congress adopt ployments essential in civilized communities are pursued this amendment, and it become a law, every acre is reby too few to answer the purposes necessary for the com-duced at once from one dollar and twenty-five cents to mon good; all the handicraft arts, the coarser and hea-fifty cents in value. Say that in Ohio we have five hunvier manufactures, essential in every civilized community, dred thousand acres remaining unsold, it would in that however simple and rustic their habits may be, are single item sacrifice directly of this property of the State plied by too small a number of hands in our more recent three hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars. Can I, settlements. Nothing can be more strongly illustrative as one of the Senators of Ohio, representing her in this of this than the statistical information given us by the body, commissioned to guard her rights, and watch over Senator from Alabama, [Mr. KING.] He has shown us her interests, consent to this? No, sir, surely not, unless that in Ohio, out of a population of more than nine hun-I could find in it some latent virtue which would compendred thousand souls, there were thirty-seven thousand sate her or her citizens for this sacrifice. But, so far persons paying taxes who were not freeholders. Hence from this, it appears to me as a measure fraught with unhe infers that there were that number of squatters on the mixed, unqualified mischief. Of the lands of the State public lands, poor and pennyless, and without security of Ohio there are, I believe, about twenty-two millions of for their homes. Nothing can be more wild and errone- acres, the property of individuals; the value of this land ous than this estimate. Why, sir, we are not savages is made up of the original cost, or rather the market price there, nor is food alone all that is required to sustain us. We live in houses, and employ the mason and the carpenter to rear them. We wear hats, coats, and shoes, and we require the labor of the mechanic to provide

of wild lands of like quality, and the improvements put upon it by the labor of the husbandman. Now, sir, if you reduce the price of the immense amount of wild lands owned by the United States, you sink, with it, the value,

SENATE.]

Public Lands.

[JAN. 21, 1833.

of all the lands in a state of nature, in that section of the a reduction of the value of the unimproved produce an Union in like proportion. The unimproved value, there-equal if not a greater reduction in the price of his imfore, of all the lands in Ohio, and all the States in which proved farm? This is the question." large quantities of public lands are situated, would sink The amendment offered by the Senator from Missis from one dollar and twenty-five cents to fifty cents per sippi, it appears to me, involves all the unhappy couseacre, if this amendment should be carried and pass into a quences with those which I have already considered. It law; and the whole loss to the State of Ohio and her ci- proposes that all the lands which have been in market ten tizens, in the depreciation of real estate, would not be years be reduced to one dollar per acre; those that have less than seventeen millions of dollars. Such, too, would been in market fifteen years, to seventy-five cents; and be the case, in like proportion, in all the new States; and twenty years, to fifty cents per acre, with a privilege to eveI must be permitted to say that, however soundly gentle-ry actual settler to enter upon, and purchase, any quantity men may judge of the wishes and interests of their consti- not exceeding one hundred and sixty acres, at fifty cents tuents, I can anticipate nothing but misfortune and loss to per acre, provided he remain upon it and cultivate it for them all as the result of a such a measure. five consecutive years.

It is said that land, if intended merely for cultivation, The graduation principle, as proposed, operates at once is equally useful to the farmer, whether its nominal va- to reduce nearly forty millions of acres of land to one dollue be great or small. This, sir, might, in some condi- lar, or below that sum, and at least fifteen millions of tions of society, be the case, in ours it is not. It might this to fifty cents per acre. Nor is this of the land which be so, if all that was sought or desired by our people were is now least valuable, and less in demand, than that which subsistence merely-unconnected wholly with the idea of is just offered for sale. The land office in Zanesville is property. But it is important to the prosperity and im- among the oldest in the United States. It has existed provement of a country that a farmer should hold his farm in estimation, that he should value it, be proud of it, and reckon his wealth by its worth. Satisfy him that it is of little or no intrinsic value; that other land, as good, may be had for nothing; his motive to labor on it, to improve and ornament it, is weakened, and the home of the husbandman becomes less desirable and less happy, as it

more than thirty years, and, during the last year, there was more land sold there, in proportion to the amount remaining, than in any new district in the United States. Why, then, should this land be reduced? It is worth what is asked for it, and brings the price readily; and it has be come thus valuable, in consequence of the improvements of the country. To those improvements the United is less cherished. States, as a wise and liberal landholder, contributed her Men who have already exhausted their means and ex-proportion, and in these enhanced sales is now reaping pended their labor in the purchase of lands from the the benefit of her appropriations. The land, then, which United States, and in the improvement of those lands, would be thus reduced to a mere nominal sum in price, have a right to claim that we shall not disturb or unsettle would be great in quantity, and for the most part equal the price of the property which we have sold to them. in value to the best new land. Its reduction in price, on Those who purchased yesterday at one dollar and twenty- the principle proposed, would therefore have the full five cents per acre, have they not cause to complain if effect of universal reduction upon all the land of the Unitto-morrow, before they enter on their lands, or cut the ed States, and, connected with the other provisions offerfirst stick for the construction of their cabins, we put ed as an amendment by the Senator from Mississippi, down the price to all other purchasers to fifty cents; and could not fail, in fact, to amount to universal reduction to thus, by a mere act of wantonness, deprive them of more the last extent. than half of the value of their purchase? I cannot forbear adverting to a very sensible paragraph from an Indiana paper, which has accidentally fallen into my hands. It shows the opinion which practical men on the spot entertain on this subject. I will take the liberty of reading

it to the Senate.

Suppose the new lands to be open to entry to actual settlers at fifty cents per acre, and then, by his scale of reduction, all the lands come down to fifty cents per acre to all purchasers, after they shall have been twenty years in market; would any land be entered at a higher rate? I will not detain the Senate to trace, in detail, the combined "PUBLIC LANDS.--A Question. Should the price of operation of these provisions; it must of itself be obvious the public lands be reduced? Before a farmer should an- that its effect would be to keep out of market for the swer this question, he should be prepared to answer an- twenty years all the lands not taken up by actual settlers; other one, in close connexion with it." It is this: Should so that all would fall to the lowest scale of the graduated the price of improved lands-the price of farms-be re- minimum-fifty cents per acre. The general operation of duced? Now it is evident, in common sense, and from this reduction I have traced in my remarks on the amend past experience, that if the unimproved lands be reduced ment offered by the Committee on Public Lands. The efin price, the improved will fall in price also. We well re-fect of the preference to actual settlers, proposed in both collect the time and the effect of the reduction in the amendments, I will now separately consider; and let me price of lands several years ago, for we were in Salem at say, sir, in advance, that it seems to me fraught with althe time. The effect was truly oppressive. All the mo- most incalculable evil.

ney that could be collected in masses sufficient was It assumes the position (whether true or false I do not used in the purchase of new lands; many were anxious to now stop to inquire) that the lands, generally, would resell improved farms, that they might buy anew; and hun-tain their higher price-say one dollar and twenty-five dreds of farmers who had purchased improved lands, and cents, or one dollar per acre--according as we adopt one had made large payments on them, were compelled to or the other of the proposed projects. Admit it to be so, make unreserved sacrifice, in order to extricate them- and the price of the other lands remains as it now is, at selves from the difficulty into which the depreciation in cae dollar and twenty-five cents; and what is its effect? the value of lands had cast them. It has been nine or ten On the other portions of the Union it operates directly years since, and improved farms in the neighborhood of as a bounty for emigration; not incidental merely, but diSalem have not yet risen to their former price. We would rect. The General Government says, by this law, to the say, that before the price should be reduced to accommo- inhabitants of the older States of the South or the East: date any class of men, it would be better for all, rich and Leave your native place--the land of your birth and the poor, that the Government give to each poor and actual home of your fathers-go westward, and settle in the new settler a half-quarter or a quarter-section. States, and you shall receive in land a bounty worth one "A farmer may want a neighboring quarter to his re-hundred and twenty dollars per man. To the hands emduced in price, so that he can purchase it; but would not ployed in the forging of iron, and blowing and cutting of

TUESDAY, JANUARY 22.

THE FORCE BILL.

[SENATE.

Mr. WILKINS moved to postpone the previous orders, for the purpose of taking up the bill further to provide for the collection of the duties on imports. He stated that it was his object to fix on a future day when this bill should be taken up for discussion.

glass in Pennsylvania, and in the various manufactories of might look on the vigorous and athletic youth, with the New Jersey and New England, you would present a like bloom of health on his cheeks, his muscular limbs and powerful appeal. To each of them, every operative who expanding frame just ripening into manhood; though I would abandon his employment and go westward, the would watch his progress with pleasing solicitude, adminbounty is tendered of one hundred and twenty dollars. ister freely to all his wants, and anticipate with delight Aye, and worse than all this is its effect on those who do the day that should make him in maturity all that he were emigrate. Its inevitable consequence is to break up the now in promise; yet I would beware of administering to bonds of family and kindred, and set their members, sepa- him the nostrums of each empiric who might propose to rately and unseasonably, afloat in the general mass of so- freshen his bloom, enlarge his frame, and hasten on his ciety. If the aged father and the widowed mother should maturity. emigrate with their sons, and settle on the new lands in the boundless West, from the very nature of their situation requiring the support and relying upon the exertions of those sons to aid in the improvements of the farm, and bringing comforts to their home, you address them also, if this amendment be converted into law, and enlist their cupidity to engage in conflict with their affections. My good youths, would you say to them, leave the house of your parents, withdraw from their succor, and let them shift for themselves; here is a reward of one hundred and twenty dollars in land, which the Government offers to you, and each of you, if you will abandon the mother who bore, and the father who reared you. But mark ye well; go and settle on these lands; make no false pretences in The CHAIR considered the motion as in order. this matter; you must do all this in fact and in faith, and Mr. CLAY expressed a hope that all objection would carry it out to the uttermost; for if your hearts relent, if be withdrawn, the object of the chairman of the combefore five years you return to your parents, you forfeit mittee being merely to appoint a day for taking up the the gift; and beware, too, that you do not remove your subject. parents from their hut to yours, and attempt to watch over them and administer to their comforts there; for if you do, their lands are forfeited by such removal. Such, sir, is the effect of the attempt here made, and probably of any which can be devised, to give to the actual settler an advantage over the ordinary purchaser of public lands. It were a measure admirably devised to sever the closest and most sacred bonds of society, and give to avarice the ascendancy over affection. Of all the mischiefs proposed in all these amendments, this is the worst in its consequences, both political and moral.

Mr. POINDEXTER asked if it was in order to move the postponement. As the bill had not yet been read a second time, he presumed that it was not among the orders of the day.

The bill was then read a second time.

Mr. WILKINS said he was desirous to fix on some future day for the consideration of this bill, and to make it the special order for that day. The committee had desired him to name Thursday next. He would, therefore, move to postpone the further consideration of the bill till Thursday next, and to make it the special order for that day.

Mr. BIBB thought that the day named was too early, as it would not allow gentlemen time for the necessary examination of the provisions of this important bill. He would, therefore, move to postpone the bill to Thursday week.

Of all the things which pertain to man as a social being, and which bear the appellation of property, those which should least be tampered with by legislation are Mr. GRUNDY stated that the chairman of the Committhe landed property and the current coin; and I know tee on the Judiciary had been instructed to move Thursnot which brings the more weighty calamity on a people, day next, not because it was supposed that there would the debasement of the circulating medium, or a general be any decision as to the bill on that day, or even within a prostration of the value of real estate. So far as legisla- few days of that day, but in order that an early progress tion can affect it, both should be held with a steady hand, should be made in this bill, which he considered to be the leaving it to the progress of events to increase the quanti- most important measure before Congress, or which was ty of the one, and enhance the value of the other. With likely to come before that body at this session. There respect to real estate, it is at this time of a safe and steady was one consideration which ought to have great weight value, gradually increasing in price, and rising in the esti- with the Senate. He did not intend, by a reference to mation of men; that estimation ought not to be destroyed it, to go into any remarks on the state of the country until or diminished by any act of ours. The value which the the merits of the bill should be fairly before the Senate. husbandman places on his soil forms a strong and endu- But the 1st day of February was near; and, as that was ring bond which binds him to his country. I have already the time fixed by South Carolina for her ordinance to go shown you the tendency of these propositions to shake its into operation, it was impossible to know what events value and destroy its influence. were to follow that day. It was incumbent on the Senate to take up the bill, in order that, after its passage, if it should pass, there might be time to send it to the other House. He thought no person would have any cause to complain if Thursday were fixed on. The committee would occupy some time in explaining the reasons which induced them to report the bill, and he thought that every gentleman would have sufficient time for reflection and exami

But the care of the West--the prosperity of the West -the progress of the West in population and improvements, are constantly, in the mouths of gentlemen; and these amendments say, they propose the most certain means of effecting these objects.

Sir, I can yield to no one, from whatever region he may come, in attachment to that young and rising portion of our Union. I may err in my judgment of the measures nation. which will be most effectual in advancing its prosperity, Mr. MANGUM said, as one of the Judiciary Committee, but no one can desire it more ardently than I do, or more he had been opposed to so early a day. He concurred assiduously labor in all things, according to his best judg-with the gentleman from Tennessee, that this was vastly ment, to promote it. But, with its present rising pros- the most important question which could be brought forpects, the constant and rapid development of its resources, ward for discussion at this session. So important was it, there is little that the most devoted patriot could wish in that, in his opinion, it would shake the ancient character its behalf, which the progress of events does not consum- of our institutions to their very foundation. He concurred mate, almost in anticipation. I look upon our West as I in the opinion that it ought to be taken up and acted on

SENATE.]

The Force Bill.

[JAN. 22, 1833.

with the most profound deliberation; for it depended on a repeal of the ordinance of South Carolina, and the acts the result of this question whether there would not be a of her Legislature passed in consequence of it, and rerevolution which would change the whole character of quire new proceedings on the part of the State. The our institutions. In moving to postpone the consideration Senator from Tennessee apprehends (continued Mr. M.) of the bill to a later day, as he should do before he re- some ideal dangers on the day mentioned; and how does sumed his seat, he would do it without reference to the he propose to avoid them? Why, by putting at the dis1st of February. It was impossible that there could be posal of the Executive the whole physical force of the any definitive action on the bill by that time. He depre- United States-not for the purpose of putting down any cated references, the only effect of which would be to unlawful acts of the people, but for the purpose of putkeep up an excitement which it would be wiser to allay. ting down the rightful act of a sovereign and indepenHe did not refer to the 1st of February because he believ-dent member of the confederacy. This, sir, (said Mr. ed that there existed any ground of apprehension. When M.) is to be the grand panacea by which the gentleman he proposed a more distant day, it was solely with refer- from Tennessee proposes to cure the evils he so much ence to the convenience of this branch of the Govern-apprehends on the 1st of February next. And what ment, and of the other House, in order that they might were they? There was nothing in South Carolina that have sufficient time for deliberation upon a subject which had not occurred in many other instances in other parts touched the very heart's core of our institutions. No one of the Union. There had been nothing done by South could look at this bill without discovering that it revived Carolina that he or any other individual had not a right to all the distinguishing characteristics of the old parties, do. South Carolina had said that the tariff laws were unbesides taking in its sweep much, in his opinion, that was constitutional, and that she would not obey them. I (said odious, and wholly unknown to either of the old parties. Mr. M.) have a right to do the same, when I believe a law It carried out to their full extent the principles of one of to be subversive of my rights, and in violation of the conthose parties with alarming and startling addenda, and stitution. And will gentlemen, (said he,) in this last case, came in conflict against all the principles of the other. It vote for a bill to arm the President with the whole force touched the fundamental character of our institutions, and, of the country to make war upon me? If I deny the on the discussion and decision which would ensue, he con- action of the Government, according to my construction scientiously believed-and he would be constrained so to of the constitution, and take my gun in hand, or my batdeclare, were they the last words he should ever utter-tle-axe, and defy the officers of the United States, I do would materially depend the continuance of our admira- so at my own peril. It will be for the civil authority, not ble institutions in that wholesome but restricted vigor that the military, to decide the question. South Carolina has, would perpetuate a well-regulated liberty. He conclud- as yet, not done that much; and yet gentlemen, in antied with moving to postpone the bill till Monday week. cipation of such an event, are about to make war upon Mr. GRUNDY said he hoped the Senate would not her. Let the gentleman from Tennessee procure a reconcur in this motion. The gentleman on his right, [Mr. peal or modification of the tariff laws, and that will do MANGUM, who was a member of the Judiciary Commit- more to cure the evil he dreads than the panacea he so tee, had said that it would be at once discovered, on read- highly recommends. Mr. M. said he did not rise to enter ing the bill, that we were about to change the whole cha- into the merits of the bill before the Senate, but to exracter of our institutions. That was the opinion of this press his utter astonishment that the Senator from Tengentleman; and he had no doubt that by Thursday next nessee should suppose that this bill could accomplish the he would be furnished with all the arguments he could object he had in view. He was not then prepared to say adduce to sustain that opinion. But there were others how far South Carolina would be satisfied by a modificawho held wholly different opinions, and who believed that tion of the tariff; that was not the subject under discusthere was nothing in this bill which was not necessary to sion; but this much he would say, that the measure proenable the Government to sustain itself from ruin. He posed by the Judiciary Committee, and commended by would not go into any debate upon the bill at this time. the Senator from Tennessee, could be productive of no Why should the bill be postponed to Monday week? There good. He had always understood that the constitution was no doubt that the day on which it was taken up would placed the civil above the military power. Pass this be consumed by the committee in giving their explana- bill, sir, (said Mr. M.) authorizing the President, if he tion of their reasons for reporting the bill; and then, if cannot act by the ordinary tribunals, to act with an gentlemen should not be ready to proceed with the sub-armed force, and you at once put the military above the ject, the discussion could be postponed. civil power. This, then, is the way, in the opinion of the

He would make a frank acknowledgment of his own Senator from Tennessee, to obviate the difficulties by feelings. He hoped his fears were unfounded, but he had which we are threatened. Sir, (said Mr. M.) the only fears as to the issue of the proceedings in South Carolina; way is to abate the nuisance-to repeal the unjust and unand if any thing disastrous should occur after the 1st of constitutional legislation by which we are oppressed; and February, he desired to stand acquitted of having contri- this will supersede any use of State authority. buted any share in the production of such evils by having There was one thing, Mr. M. said, he would advert to given his sanction to delay. As far as one vote would go, while he was up. He had seen, among the documents he would, at least, endeavor to prevent any collision. accompanying the President's message, one that was deMr. MILLER, after some remarks, inaudible in the gal-scribed as a test oath act. He was surprised at this, as lery, said that he did not perceive how the measures pro- he knew that no act bearing that title had been passed posed by the Senator from Tennessee were to be accom- by the Legislature of South Carolina, and he was grati plished by the passage of the bill under consideration. fied to see, among the papers in the message to-day, an The 1st of February, he said, had been referred to by authentic copy of the act referred to, whose title is dif that Senator as a day likely to produce much evil to the ferent from that described in the former message, and country, and it had been consequently urged that this forms a part of the documents printed therewith. What bill, or something similar to it in substance, was necessary the character of that act was might be seen from the certo prevent it. But (said Mr. M.) the 1st of February tified copy now on the files of the Senate. It was this: will be here before that bill can possibly pass; and if the Senator from Tennessee is disposed, as he alleges, for conciliation, he can easily avoid the evils he so much deprecates, by a repeal or a modification of the tariff laws. Sir, (said Mr. M.) any modification will be, ipso facto,

The people of South Carolina, in their highest sovereign character, had passed an ordinance declaring that every officer of the State shall swear to respect her constitution and laws; and the act referred to was passed in pursuance of the high authority thus given. In no case

JAN. 22, 1833.]

The Force Bill.

[SENATE.

[The PRESIDENT here reminded Mr. MILLER that it was not in order, on a mere motion for postponement, to discuss the merits of the bill.]

(said Mr. M.) could it be considered a test oath act. It the bill before the Senate. But, he said, if by Monday was not intended for every citizen of the State, but for week, the day named by the Senator from North Carolina, those citizens who held offices under it. The State sim-a bill for the modification of the tariff should be reply required all the agents in her pay to take an oath to ported in the Senate, or the bill now discussed in the support her laws; and, sir, (said Mr. M.) if they have not House of Representatives should come from that body, a right to pass a law to make their own officers and it will then be time enough to say whether this bill should agents obey them, I would not give a brass farthing for pass. And in either case, he would ask the Senator from State rights. This, sir, (said Mr. M.) is the nature of the Tennessee if the Senate would think it necessary to pass act, and yet it is called by the President a test oath act. a bill of the nature now before them? Was this oath more a test than that taken by every Senator at the Secretary's table? or essentially different from that taken by the officers of the Government? We swear to support the constitution of the United States, and yet Mr. M. continued, that it was not his intention to disthis is not considered a test oath. What course (asked cuss the bill, or its general principles. His object was Mr. M.) does the General Government pursue, when its only to delay action on the bill, until it could be seen officers refuse or neglect to obey its mandates? The mo- whether there was a probability of the passage of a bill ment (said Mr. M.) that a United States' officer refuses in modification of the tariff. By Monday week, he preto obey the will of the Executive, he is dismissed from sumed the other House might be heard from, and it was office without ceremony, with or without having taken possible that something might emanate from the Commitan oath. There was no proscription (Mr. M. added) tee of Finance in this body. But (said Mr. M.) if the in the act of South Carolina. The ordinance (continued Senate will only now pass a resolution declaring that the Mr. M.) was passed by the people of the State in their tariff shall not be modified, I will at once agree to prohighest sovereign capacity, was a part of the constitu- ceed to the consideration of the bill. If delayed, sometion of the State, and every man when he takes office thing may occur of a more peaceful character than that under the State is rightfully required to swear that he will contemplated by the Cominittee on the Judiciary; but support her constitution; and when the ordinance itself (added Mr. M.) if the pacification of the Senator from came before the Senate, Mr. M. said he would be pre-Tennessee is to be the only relief extended to the people pared to show that the oath to support it did not conflict of South Carolina, I can only say, Lord deliver me from with the obligation to support the constitution of the such relief. United States. There was, however, one part of the or Mr. CLAY said he did not rise to go into the discussion dinance which might be supposed to conflict with the of this question. He considered the suggestion of the constitution of the United States. It is that which denies Chair as to the unprofitableness of such a course, as enthe right of the federal court to review the decisions of firely correct. And without casting censure on any Sethe State court. The ordinance, however, in this only nator for pursuing such a course as he might deem fit, he was intended to operate on the State officers, and did not was not disposed himself to go into such debate. The command resistance by force to the decrees and proceed-question before the Senate was merely to fix a day for ings of the federal court; it was passive-the agents of the consideration of this bill; and on a question so trithe State were simply required not to act. But (said vial in itself, he regretted that there should be any exhi Mr. M.) it will be recollected that the 25th section of the bition of feeling. He thought that the time ought to be judiciary act, which gives this right to review, was be- fixed, without reference to the 1st of February, or to any lieved by many of the best informed, and, if he mistook other day. not, by the President himself, to be unconstitutional, and therefore null and void.

Certainly the action of this Government ought not to be retarded or quickened by any consideration of what might Mr. M. further said, that when the ordinance of South occur on that day. The only inquiry ought to be, what Carolina came before the Senate, he would not only be day would be most convenient in reference to the state of prepared to show that it was not contrary to the consti- the public business? Although this was a highly importution of the United States, but that it was not contrary, tant measure, no more time would be required than would as alleged, to the constitution of South Carolina. It was be necessary to give it due consideration. He should, absurd, he said, to pretend that the ordinance conflicted therefore, be disposed to fix a day which would not inwith the constitution of South Carolina. It was framed terfere with the business of the Senate, or which would by the people of the State, in convention-in their high-be too late for their final action. He thought Thursday est sovereign capacity-and consequently a part of the next was too short an interval, and that the other day was constitution itself, and a repeal of all parts conflicting with too remote. He was in favor of investing the authorities its provisions. of the Federal Government with adequate powers to With these preliminary remarks, called forth by gen- meet the present crisis. Yet, although he was in favor of tlemen who had preceded him in debate, and without this, he was not to be urged on by any circumstances, pretending to enter into the merits of the bill, he would however imperative, to give his approbation to so imporcontent himself by stating that he would vote for the tant a measure, without the most careful investigation, in longest day named. He was in favor of harmonizing the order that, while giving all constitutional aids to the Govcountry. He was not for secession, nor was he for dis-ernment, he did not invest them with any unconstitutionunion. When Congress should declare war against South al powers. He would, therefore, propose Monday next, Carolina, and should put it in the power of the President considering that in the interval there would be time to assail her with the military and naval forces of the enough for full examination of the bill. United States, it would then be the height of absurdity to Mr. SMITH said he did not rise to go into the debate talk of secession as a constitutional right. Secession would at all. He concurred with the Senator from Kentucky, then be revolutionary in its nature, and would be forced that Monday next would be the proper day. By that on the State by the war carried on against her. The time the Senate would get rid of the land bill; while, if secession in the ordinance was predicated on the Federal the subject was brought up on Thursday, it was very likeGovernment disregarding its peaceful obligations to South ly that the other bill would be undisposed of. Mr. BIBB said he was not disposed to go into an exami

Carolina.

Mr. M. continued: If the object was to avoid the dan-nation of the principles of the bill, upon the question for ger to the Union apprehended by the Senator from Ten- fixing the day; but he might be allowed to say, that he nessee, it could not be accomplished by the passage of considered this bill as involving a return to first principles VOL. IX-12