Mr. ATKISSON. Does that model represent to your knowledge a properly staked grouping of claims? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, it does. Mr. ATKISSON. Could you tell us a little bit about how that is done? How many claims, first of all, are represented on that board? Mr. GIBSON. Nine. Mr. ATKISSON. Is it 9 or 18? I'm confused. Mr. GIBSON. I see. There are 18. Mr. ATKISSON. Eighteen claims properly staked. How many stakes are there? Well, we've already counted them and there are 68 there on the left side of the exhibit. That board represents a proper staking of 18 claims under the law as you understand it? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, sir. Mr. ATKISSON. When you were staking claims for Mr. Schauss back in 1968 and 1969, is that the way you did it? Mr. GIBSON. No. Mr. ATKISSON. How did you do it when you worked for Mr. Schauss? Mr. GIBSON. I walked the claims off. Mr. ATKISSON. By "walking them off" you mean as opposed to using an exact measurement or a chain or something which would Mr. GIBSON. No. I just walked them. I put out the monument and the corner. Mr. ATKISSON. Is the monument and corner-we will show you the other side of this exhibit. [Exhibit displayed, facsimile drawing included in record as exhibit II.] [Exhibit II follows:] 600' Exhibit TI 18 Invalidly Staked Mining Claims-in-Red-Desert Area,-Wyoming Mr. ATKISSON. Does that represent 18 claims the way you staked them for Mr. Schauss? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. Mr. ATKISSON. There are only 28 stakes as opposed to the 68 that are on the other side, is that correct? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. Mr. ATKISSON. Did you know at the time you staked the claims this way that it was not according to the requirements of the law? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, sir. I did. Mr. ATKISSON. Did you bring that to the attention of Mr. Schauss? Mr. GIBSON. I did bring it up. Mr. ATKISSON. What did he say? Mr. GIBSON. He said we'd get the monuments in and the corner and we'd do that later. Mr. ATKISSON. He didn't seem worried about it? Mr. GIBSON. No. Mr. ATKISSON. Of the claims that you staked out there, were any of them done properly according to the law? Mr. GIBSON. According to the law, no. Mr. ATKISSON. If you went out there today or some other prospecter went out there into that field today and looked at the staking that you have done on this 18,000 claim area, would there by any way that the boundaries of those claims could be readily traced? Mr. GIBSON. There is no way. Mr. ATKISSON. As a matter of fact, that is the precise language of the law which requires claims staking to be done properly. The law reads that it should be done in such a manner that an observer will be able to readily trace the claim. You are saying that that cannot be done. Could it have been done back in 1969 or 1970? Mr. GIBSON. No, sir. Mr. ATKISSON. Is part of the process of validly staking a claim something called validation drilling? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. You are supposed to do five 10-foot holes or one 50-foot hole to each claim within 3 feet of the monument. Mr. ATKISSON. Did you do some of that work for Mr. Schauss as well? Mr. GIBSON. I did a little of validation around the roads. Mr. ATKISSON. Around the roads? Did he ask you to do it around the roads? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. So that the people could see the work was done. Mr. ATKISSON. So that people could see the work was done on the claims close to the roads, is that right? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, that's right. Mr. ATKISSON. By the way, you mentioned that you worked in some other States. When was that? Mr. GIBSON. In 1972, 1973, and 1974. Mr. ATKISSON. You mentioned the State of Utah. Mr. GIBSON. San Juan County. Mr. ATKISSON. How many claims did you stake for Mr. Schauss in Utah? Mr. GIBSON. On the records I don't know how many there are, but I staked around 8,000 to 10,000 claims down there. Mr. ATKISSON. Were those claims staked in the same way you staked the claims in Wyoming? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. Mr. ATKISSON. In other words, they were staked with fewer stakes than the law required and not surveyed and not measured accurately but paced off. Is that right? Mr. GIBSON. Right. Mr. ATKISSON. How about the State of Colorado? Did you also stake some claims for Mr. Schauss in Colorado? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, sir. In Chaffe County I staked around 2,000 claims-iron claims-and they were staked the same way. Mr. ATKISSON. They were staked in the same way as the ones in Wyoming were? Mr. GIBSON. Right. Mr. ATKISSON. Was there another State that you mentioned? Mr. GIBSON. No. Just Utah and Colorado. In Garfield County I staked approximately 10,000 claims down there. Mr. SANTINI. Mr. Chairman, let the record reflect that Nevada was not mentioned. Mr. ATKISSON. When you worked for Mr. Schauss in Wyoming, did you have occasion to execute certain affidavits and file them in the county courthouse? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. I signed all the recording papers on all the claims that I staked out there. Mr. ATKISSON. Under the law when you staked those claims, you were technically the owner of them and Mr. Schauss then had you deed them back to him, is that right? Mr. GIBSON. By the time I got through signing them, I had a quit claim deed I had to sign and give to Mr. Schauss. Mr. ATKISSON. When you filed the affidavits, were you aware that they might contain statements which were not altogether true? Mr. GIBSON. Yes. Mr. ATKISSON. I will ask the staff to show you, Mr. Gibson, proof of labor affidavit. It is recorded on August 28, 1972. Mr. Moss. The affidavit referred to will be inserted at this point as a part of the record. [The proof of labor affidavit referred to follows:] |