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were 836 withdrawn; 1,948 canceled; 444 referred to a liquidator, and 4,992 still pending in the office.

The total number filed since March 1, 1923, about which time the Winslow Act was passed-it was enacted on March 4, 1923-up until December 31, 1925, was 23,737.

Mr. Wood. How many have been filed altogether?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Thirty-five thousand four hundred forty-two. Mr. Wood. That represents the total?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Yes.

Mr. WOOD. Are there claims being filed now?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Yes, there are claims being filed every day. A good many of those now under consideration are quite troublesome. Mr. Wood. In what respect?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. We have had the property for a longer time, and it takes longer to dispose of it.

Mr. WooD. What do these claims consist of? Are they claims for money, or for tangible property?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Both.

REAL ESTATE HELD BY ALIEN PROPERTY CUSTODIAN

Mr. WOOD. What sort of tangible property have you in your possession?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. We still have a very large number of pieces of real estate scattered all over the country.

Mr. Woon. Can you put in the record a statement showing where that real estate is located?

Mr. WILSON. We could give you a statement showing where it is located, but it would be quite a voluminous document to describe it fully.

Mr. WOOD. How many pieces of property have you?

Mr. WILSON. I have no idea.

Mr. SUTHERLAND. We can furnish you a statement showing you the number of pieces of property in each State.

Mr. Woon. I think you ought to do that because the question is growing quite acute, and a certain character of legislation is being proposed. So I think the committee ought to have as much detail as possible in regard to this matter.

Tell us what different kinds of property you have. If it is real estate, tell us how many pieces of real estate there are, and if it is personal property, tell us what it is. Tell us, in a general way, where it is located and the character of the property. Is it business property?

Mr. WILSON. The real estate we have now consists of acreage tracts, farms, lots, and buildings.

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Most of the real estate we have is country real estate, such as farms.

Mr. WOOD. Have you any factories, or any business concerns? Mr. SUTHERLAND. There are some business concerns of which we acquired the majority of stock.

Mr. Woon. Are those going concerns?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Some of them are.

Mr. WILSON. I think we only have three or four of those. Nearly every business that we held has been liquidated.

Mr. WOOD. I wish you would submit for the record as comprehensive a statement as you can.

Mr. SUTHERLAND. We will do that.

(The statement above referred to is as follows:)

Pieces of real estate held by Alien Property Custodian January 20, 1926

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Mr. WOOD. What are you doing now? What takes up the time of your force?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Our force is engaged in passing on these claims. It is a very intricate matter. These claims all have to be very carefully audited. We keep a force of expert auditors.

The time of some of our people has been required in connection with the fact that the Comptroller General has a man in our office who has been in there since last April, with as many as 75 employees with him.

Mr. WOOD. That force is from the Comptroller General's office? Mr. SUTHERLAND. Yes.

Mr. WOOD. What are they auditing?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. They are auditing everything which has been done by the Alien Property Custodian from the beginning down to date. We have the most searching examination being made by the force from the Comptroller General's office that could possibly be made. This man from the Comptroller General's office has now I should say, between 40 and 50 clerks. He is a very capable man himself and he and his force are making a very thorough audit and examination into the character of the expenditures which have been made. The Comptroller General is making a very careful investigation into every act of the Alien Property Custodian or any of his agents or employees, from the beginning down to date. He is constantly bringing to the attention of the Alien Property Custodian anything he finds, and it requires quite a number of people from time to time to look up these matters.

CLAIM OF FOREIGNER OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES AND RESIDENT ALIEN

Mr. Wood. When these claims are filed, is there any difference between the action of the Alien Property Custodian with reference. to a claim that comes from a foreigner living outside of this country and the claim of an alien living in this country, with reference to the determination of his rights?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, there is a very great difference.
Mr. WOOD. What is the difference?

Mr. WILSON. The foreigner or the man who had an enemy status during the war is only entitled to $10,000 of the principal, and $10,000 of income from his property, while the man who did not have an enemy status, such as a man living in this country, is entitled to have all his property turned over to him. I think our records show that practically all of the latter class have received their money.

VALUE AND SIZE OF CLAIMS FOR PROPERTY

Mr. WOOD. That question leads up to this query. How many claims are there still pending of resident aliens that are in your hands?

Mr. WILSON. We have no record with us of that to-day, and I do not think it is possible to get such a record, except after very great search. But I think it is fair to say that the number is very, very small. The chances are it would be about 25 or 50.

Mr. WOOD. What is the total amount involved in claims for property that you still have on your hands?

Mr. WILSON. We do not know.

Mr. Wood. I should think there would be some way of finding

out.

Mr. WILSON. The total amount of a claim may be very extravagant.

Mr. WOOD. I understand that, but I would like to have some idea as to the volume of business with which you have to deal.

Mr. SUTHERLAND. I think this statement will give you a picture of what has been done, and you can tell, possibly, from this something as to what is still pending; that is, the amount of property we are still holding.

The total amount of property and cash returned under the Winslow bill from January 1 to December 31, 1925, was $13,684,462. The total amount of all property and cash returned under the Winslow bill from April, 1923, to December 31, inclusive, is $42,089,

418.

The total amount of all property and cash allowed by the Department of Justice from the beginning to December 31, 1925, inclusive, is $264,081,752.15. The total amount of all property and cash returned to date is $306,171,170.15.

We have substantially in our possession, as estimated, $281,000,000 of property of all kinds. So that, to adjudicate and return that property under new legislation which may be enacted during this session, of course, is going to be quite an expensive and intricate undertaking.

Mr. Wood. Can you give us an idea of the size of these claims?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. They will be of all sizes. Some of the larger property and most of the small property has probably been returned. Mr. WILSON. Let me make this suggestion. When the Winslow bill was under consideration we estimated then the number of claims under $10,000, and it was estimated that 93 per cent of the trusts we held in our hands were under $10,000. So most of the claims we have are under $10,000.

CLAIMS UNDER $10,000 PENDING

Mr. WOOD. How many claims under $10,000 have you still pending? Mr. WILSON. There are 4,992 still pending. Some of those 4,992 claims may be larger claims, over $10,000. I know some of them are, but not many.

Mr. WOOD. What is the reason why these claims under $10,000 have not been disposed of?

Mr. WILSON. It is because of lack of proof. That is the principal reason. Many of the people have died abroad, and the estates have to be administered over there. The trusts are often divided into as many as 20 different parts. It may be, perhaps, that 20 different people are entitled, say, to $5,000, or whatever the amount may be, we must have the administration of the estates in Europe. They must send to us the proof of heirship, showing to whom this money is to go, and whether or not they are entitled to it. The delay in most cases is due to the delay in furnishing the necessary proof.

Mr. WOOD. Let me ask you about the course that is followed in connection with one of these cases. When a claim is filed with you and is disallowed, what becomes of it?

Mr. WILSON. If they are not satisfied with our decision they sue. Mr. WOOD. Where?

82592-262

Mr. WILSON. In one of the Federal courts. That is the reason why 513 cases are pending. Those are cases where the claims have been disallowed by our office and by the Department of Justice, and the claimants have started suit to recover.

Mr. WOOD. How many suits have you pending?

Mr. WILSON. Five hundred and thirteen.

Mr. WOOD. What is the amount of property invoved in those 513 suits?

Mr. WILSON. We can not even guess what that is, because we do not know. That has never been tabulated.

Mr. WOOD. You spoke about the number of cases in the hands of the Attorney General. How do they get into the hands of the Attorney General?

Mr. WILSON. They are referred to him by us.

Mr. WOOD. You ask their advice before you come to your conclusion?

Mr. WILSON. Yes. All claims amounting to over $10,000 must go to the Attorney General under the law. We do not pass upon claims over $10,000. We do not allow them, but they are allowed by the Attorney General and the President.

Mr. WOOD. You may send those under $10,000 to the Attorney General or the President?

Mr. WILSON. We may have done that in some instances, when they are not satisfied with our decision, and they ask the Attorney General to pass upon them.

CHEMICAL FOUNDATION CASE

Mr. Wood. Going back again to this other matter, you have some cases of great moment to you, or have had.

Bayer case?

Mr. WILSON. I imagine you refer to the

What became of the

Mr. WooD (interposing). That is the chemical case, is it not?
Mr. WILSON. I do not think there has been any disposition of that.
Mr. WOOD. Is that still in the courts?

Mr. SUTHERLAND. Do you refer to the Chemical Foundation case?
Mr. WOOD. I understood it was a chemical case.

Mr. SUTHERLAND. The Chemical Foundation case is in the Supreme Court of the United States.

Mr. WILSON. It has been argued before the Supreme Court, and we hope to get a decision in a month or so. The Bayer case which I think you have reference to is the aspirin case. I think there is no application pending in that case. I think, however, there is a claim which has been filed for a part of the purchase fund, but it has not been disposed of-it is in court. That company was sold out long ago in 1918.

Mr. WOOD. Is the Chemical Foundation case the one which is in the Supreme Court?

Mr. WILSON. Yes; that was argued last December.

Mr. Woon. Is there any other case in the Supreme Court besides that one?

Mr. WILSON. Yes; we have a number of cases there. We have had quite a few decisions recently by the Supreme Court.

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