Commissioners, shall be a trustee, with all the powers, privileges, and duties of other trustees" of the school.

This was done ostensibly for the purpose of having the District see what was being done with the money. Now that the District is paying half of the support of the inmates of the school, instead of paying board for those from the District, it should have a representative on the board of trustees.

By the act of March 3, 1881, it was provided that the officers of the Reform School should, at the end of each fiscal year, make a report to the Commissioners giving certain information as to property, employees, their employment, results, etc. This connection of the Commissioners with the school, their representation upon the board of trustees-one of their number for several years serving as president of the board— and the supervision exercised by them through the accounting officer of the District over the accounts of the school has so far worked well and amply protected the interests of the District in the school.

As long as the District was paying half of the expense it was thought that it should have a report showing what was done at the school, although it was not the same report made to the Attorney-General.

Since this new method of paying the expenses was established it has been the tendency to simplify as far as possible the administration of all these things. The Department of Justice should have control from its head over all those matters relating to United States prisoners. All these boys are in a sense United States prisoners.

Representative PITNEY. Let us think of that. Whether these boys are prisoners by law or not, it seems that it will be claimed that the Reform School in point of fact is a part of the charitable work of the District of Columbia. The other charitable organizations, whatever they may be, public or private, ought to be able to avail themselves of the advantages of that school for a certain class of charitable subjects or objects. The school, when it turns out these boys, whether it has power of control over them after release or not, might fail to accom. plish all the good that was possible, unless there are other persons charged with the duty of taking an interest in these boys after release, and of seeing not only that they have not gone wrong but of preventing them from doing so. It may be claimed that the ground you cover in your work is a necessary part of the territory of the general administration of charities here. Now, it has been suggested that the general charitable work might be given in charge of a board of charities, which should take actively the interest that the Commissioners of the District now take theoretically in the work; and if that is done, if such a board should be created, would it not be advisable for that board to have representation in the Reform School and take a live interest in the work, and see that the right sort of boys are taken care of after they are sent there and after they leave?

Senator FAULKNER. As to these other institutions making use of the Reform School, you could not put boys in what you call a reformatory without a judicial decision or the consent of parents.

Representative PITNEY. If there is proof of the need of the child for the guardianship of the law, he is put in the control of the Board of Children's Guardians.

Senator FAULKNER. But without the consent of parents you have no right to put a boy in a reformatory without the machinery of the law. Representative PITNEY. What I want to know, Mr. Clay, is what your views are upon the subject of the relation of the work of the reformatory to the general charitable work of the District. Whether

they are not essentially related one to the other; whether the work of the Reform School is not a part of the charitable work of the District, and whether they ought not to be brought into relation in the reorgani zation of the District charities?

Mr. CLAY. It might be provided by law that boys under the care and control of any of these charitable organizations could be committed to the Reform School. The Reform School is rather in the nature of a penal than a charitable institution, because there is an essence of punishment to a certain extent. The sentence or commitment of boys is not for the purpose of providing for those whose parents can not do it, for probably all of them could be supported by their parents. They are sent there because of their conduct.

Representative PITNEY. But when you get down to first principles, if it is simply for purposes of punishment or for isolating inmates from the rest of society, it could be done just as well by putting them in jail. It is because it is supposed they may be reformed that boys are sent to the Reform School, and in so far as they are there for that purpose it is a charitable purpose and not a penal purpose.

Mr. CLAY. I would say that it would be necessary for this board, or conglomeration, of charities, under whatever head it might be, to be authorized by law, by certain process, whatever might be thought best, to commit boys to that school.

Representative NORTHWAY. This board of charities, it could hardly be said, ought to have any part in the business management of the school.

Mr. CLAY. No, sir; I do not think it should.

Representative NORTHWAY. So far as the business control of the institution is concerned, it is similar to other institutions of like kind elsewhere, is it?

Mr. CLAY. Yes, sir. We have the "family" system, just as in Massachusetts. There is a difference, perhaps, as to the size of "families.” We divide the boys up into families of not to exceed 50 or 60 and put them in separate buildings, but their meals are all eaten in the same room. To return to the paper:

Any change in the direction of adding to the present authority of the Commissioners over the school would seem to be in antagonism to the tendency of recent legislation, which has increased the AttorneyGeneral's control over the administration of the officers of the United States courts, and over all matters relating to United States prisons, prisoners, and convicts. Quite recently the appropriation for the support of the jail in the District of Columbia, one-half the expense of which, as in the case of the Reform School, is paid by the District of Columbia, was by express enactment directed to be hereafter expended under the direction of the Attorney-General, and not by the Commissioners of the District of Columbia.

Half of the expenses of the jail are paid by the District, but the Commissioners themselves do not want to have any discretion as to the payment of the expenses of that jail, and the appropriations are made to be disbursed by the Attorney-General, who has sole control.

Representative PITNEY. So much for the legal and financial part of it; but how about the humanity of the subject; how about practical results? Who is going to take an active interest in a boy when he leaves the school?

Mr. CLAY. Who does now if we don't? There is living down in Louisiana a Mr. Falls, who was president of the board of trustees before me. I suppose that man did not make less than three visits a

week to that school. The time he spent in working for the Reform School was sufficient, if he had given it to his profession, to have made him rich, but he actually broke himself down working in the interest of that school.

Representative PITNEY. I am talking about when the boys go out. You propose to provide for the machinery to get him back if he goes wrong, but there should be some way to prevent him from going wrong, if possible. Now, the relation of your work to the general charitable work of the District comes in right there. It seems to me that there ought to be some force at work to prevent these boys from going wrong. What I want to get is harmony between your institution and the others.

Mr. CLAY. I do not understand or think that there is any lack of harmony.

Senator MARTIN. Suppose there was a board of charities here looking after the charities of the District generally, with power to appoint these trustees, do you think that supervision would be effective?

Mr. CLAY. I do not see exactly where anything is to be gained by having the trustees appointed by another board rather than by the President on the recommendation of the Attorney-General.

Senator MARTIN. You say Mr. Harmon went to the school only once in two years?

Mr. CLAY. Yes, sir.

Senator MARTIN. Do you not think the board of charities would go there more frequently than that?

Mr. CLAY. That is the work of the trustees of the school.

Senator MARTIN. Which would be the most efficient way to accomplish the best results-the present one or supervision by a board of charities, or a board of commissioners to look after the charities of the District?

Mr. CLAY. I do not see that anything would be gained by putting the school under another board. It would merely result in multiplying supervising officers without gaining anything in execution.

Senator MARTIN. Looking upon this school as a department of prisons rather than of charity, I would like to hear your views upon the present authority of the president of the board of trustees to commit to the institution boys who have not been convicted of a crime. Do you think that is a safe and proper power?

Mr. CLAY. That is a matter that would be subject to considerable discussion.

Senator FAULKNER. He does not do it now without the consent of the boy's parents.

Mr. CLAY. He has to guard against attempts of parents who want to relieve themselves of expense by putting their boys in the school. The only way he can do this is by getting evidence from neighbors as to the boy's conduct or through the police department, and such evidence as can be gotten in any other way, to see if the case is a proper one. As to this matter of the authority of the president of the board to commit boys, I have no interest in that one way or the other; it throws a great amount of work upon me and requires the exercise of much care. people who swear or make affidavit before the president of the board know they are making an oath, but a majority of them do not know they would not be amenable to action for perjury. The thing that has to be guarded against is the attempt of parents to defraud the Government in this way.

Senator FAULKNER. What is your experience as to that?

The

Mr. CLAY. The experience is that we do not get many boys out there in that way, because we exercise too much care.

Senator FAULKNER. Is there any effort to get boys in there by guardians in that way?

Mr. CLAY. Not since I have been there. There was one case that was exploited in the courts here sometime ago of a boy who was put there on request of his guardian, but that is rather a long story to discuss now.

Senator MARTIN. You think it is a criminal institution rather than a charitable one?

Mr. CLAY. Yes, sir: just such as there are in many States. At the Elmira Reformatory they take persons up to 30 or 35 years.

Representative PITNEY. Have you stated the capacity of the school? Mr. CLAY. It is about 250; we have now 225.

Representative PITNEY. How many different buildings?

Mr. CLAY. We have four family buildings. One is the original building, the large main building; then there are three other family buildings. In each of those buildings there is a dormitory, rooms for officials in charge of the building, for two teachers, watchmen and matron, and also a schoolroom, fitted up with desks, blackboards, etc.— a regular schoolroom. Half of the family is under one teacher in the schoolroom while the other half is at work in the shops or on the farm; they alternate in that way.

Senator MARTIN. You do not admit them over 16 years of age?
Mr. CLAY. No, sir.

Representative PITNEY. What is the proportion of white and col ored at the school?

Mr. CLAY. I can not tell you at the moment. Perhaps the superintendent can. Mr. Shallenberger, what is the proportion of colored and

white?

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. A little over one-half are colored; probably 120 as against 95.

Representative PITNEY. What sort of instruction do the boys get? Do they get industrial training?

Mr. CLAY. Yes, sir; we have

Senator FAULKNER. He says that half are at work on the farm and in the shops, while the other half are at school.

Mr. CLAY. We have a paper-box industry there which employs 70 boys, which turns into the United States Treasury from $2,500 to $3,000 every year. We have a shoe shop, a tailor shop, and carpenter shop; and we have a system of manual training which we are now introducing, the Sloyd system-that is, we are extending that system. We have boys employed in the bakery, and in the greenhouses under a florist, and under the engineer, who, with the aid of the boys, keeps the plumbing in order. Then there are boys employed in the laundry and in the stables and on the farm; also in the dining room.

Representative NORTHWAY. What restraint is exercised over them during the day?

Mr. CLAY. Simply moral restraint. There are no walls around the place, but the boys are never out of the sight of their teachers. It is very curious to see how few attempt to get away or leave the school. We had 110 boys committed to the school last year, and of these we lost but 4 by walking off.

Representative NORTHWAY. It is a matter of curious study at such institutions in our various States to see how few do try to escape.

Representative PITNEY. It is the way with jails, that many try to break in.

Mr. CLAY. It takes more to reform a boy than giving him instruction in studies and in manual training, because, as I said, the sharpest little rascal may be the best behaved and be entitled technically to discharge in the shortest time. There is a provision in the law which says that no boy shall be discharged by the trustees until the superintendent recommends it, and under that we do not retain him if the superintendent says he is fully reformed.

Representative NORTHWAY. But you discharge them on reaching the age of 21?

Mr. CLAY. Oh, yes. Speaking about the element of reformation, our endeavor is to keep the grounds around the school in thorough and beautiful condition, and to keep the buildings clean and painted; this is done by the work of the boys. You can go into any of the dormitories and wipe up the floor with your handkerchief and you will have it as clean as that paper. You can see the effect of the surroundings upon a boy in a very little time after he is there. Personal cleanliness will lead to moral cleanliness. They are never out of the sight of the watchmen all night long; no part of the dormitory is out of the sight of the watchman. Each of the boys has a separate iron bedstead. In general, the school is kept in such a way that many of these young scamps know that they are in a better place than they would be at home, and therefore do not want to run away. If there were walls, they would be constantly planning escape, because if a boy sees a wall to keep him in he will surely want to get over it. Instead of that, they know they have a good place to be. We work practically all of them in the summer time on the farm, and while we are doing this, we also keep the buildings in order. We try to make the place support itself. All the offal that comes from the dining room goes to the piggery. We have our own piggery and smoke-house, and make our own bacon; we raise our own farm products, and dispose of some, the receipts from which go to the Treasury, as you will see from our report for the year. I did not read the last part of the reply to the question of placing the school under District authority. I will finish it now:

Quite recently the appropriations for the support of the jail in the District of Columbia-one-half the expense of which, as in the case of the Reform School, is paid by the District of Columbia-was by express enactment directed to be hereafter expended under the direction of the Attorney-General, and not by the Commissioners of the District of Columbia. To preserve the unity of purpose indicated by this legislation, the same provision should be enacted in regard to the appropriation for the Reform School, the desirability and propriety of which has been heretofore advocated by the Commissioners themselves.

When the payment of half the expenses of the jail was first put on the District of Columbia, the appropriation was made to be disbursed by the District Commissioners, but at the very next session this was put under the Attorney-General. Only last year Commissioner Ross told me that he proposed to have that very clause inserted in the appropriation for the Reform School, as he thought it should be disbursed by the Attorney-General. If the vouchers for the expenditures of that school are examined, as are those of the jail, in the Department of Justice, under the new system we have, they would get a thorough examination, and that is what the board would very much like to have. The only fault the board has to find with the people of the District,