or four years. I think I finally sent a note to Mr. Wilson, and he had the matter investigated. Just about Christmas time the woman, in her appeal to me, described the miseries of home without a Christmas. To my surprise she wanted to get dolls to send down to Florida, and she was in one of the Departments.

Mr. WILSON. One day a gentleman living up in the northwest came to me and asked me if it would be possible for me to find out anything about a Brooklyn man from whom he had received appeals for money and who said he used to be employed with him. I said I would write to the Brooklyn authorities. We cooperate in this way. This gentleman said that in the last eight months he had sent this man $20.50. In a confidential bulletin forwarded to me from Brooklyn, in response to my inquiries, I found that this fellow was in it under several aliases. I do not want your committee to get the idea that the object of the Associated Charities is detecting fraud. It is our endeavor to make a thorough investigation into the circumstances, and then we determine what we are going to do. We ascertain the circumstances, or, in other words, we diagnose the case before we undertake to treat it. Our interest extends to the whole field, and it becomes our duty to find out the circumstances surrounding a case and, if relief is needed, to apply the proper remedy.

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to the work of the proposed board of charities; that is, whether the creation of such a board would take the place of the Associated Charities. It would not, for it would have no time, even if it had any desire, to go into the details of that work any more than the Commissioners themselves. The board would have the work of seeing that each institution was doing the work for which it was created, whether it reached its aims, just as State boards do in relation to State institutions, and of ascertaining whether a new institution was needed and of making recommendations. It would also be its duty to see that there was cooperation between the institutions.

If it is the pleasure of the committee I will submit a statement with reference to public charities.

Mr. MCMILLAN. We will be glad to have it.

Mr. PITNEY. Do you know anything of the project of starting a hospital in Georgetown?

Mr. WILSON. Only in the most general way. I believe there is such a project on foot under a sisterhood of the Episcopal Church, and the idea is that it shall be a private institution in its beginning. I do not know that they ask at present for public funds. I wish to bring out in the figures which I will present in my statement that nearly all of the institutions that receive public funds began as private institutions and then came to Congress.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Suppose the Government should decide not to help these institutions; what would be the result? Would they go along just the same?

Mr. WILSON. I think those that are necessary would.

Mr. MCMILLAN. And probably more economically?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir. Relief can be much abused. I shall cite statements where institutions actually say "We receive people of all nationality, creed, and color," a very good object, and then turn to the taxpayers and say, "You pay for it.'

Mr. NORTHWAY. Your idea is that public funds are thrown away? Mr. WILSON. That is according to the way they are used.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Is it not true that Washington is situated in respect

to its institutions very differently from any other city?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Suppose you were to take these hospitals away from the care of the Government?

Mr. WILSON. I would make the hospitals Government hospitals. The health officer brought out in a report the other day the case of a little boy, who was carted around from one institution to another, and not one of them would let him in.

Mr. NORTHWAY. All hospitals you would have under control of law? Mr. WILSON. If citizens desire to organize and support a hospital, all right, but do not mix your public and private institutions. If you are going to give public money, let it be given to those that are not purely private institutions. Some of those receiving public money now are purely private corporations-close corporations. I was talking with an official of one of our large hospitals, a member of the board of directors. New members who wish to get in can do so by paying $10. I told him they were a close corporation. He said they were practically so. I said, "You elect your own successors." He said, "Yes, sir." I then said, "You meet when you want to." He answered, "Yes." Then I said, "You are a close corporation;" to which he replied to all intents and purposes that they were.

Mr. PITNEY. You have given us the fact, but you have not given any names. We are sitting here as a public commission to get information for the public benefit, and I think we ought to get the name.

Mr. WILSON. I will give you the name: The Central Dispensary and Emergency Hospital is a close corporation.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Receiving support from the Government?

Mr. WILSON. Another thing I wish to call attention to is the report of the superintendent of the Metropolitan police. In it you will find this statement: That 333 of the cases sent to hospitals during the last fiscal year were persons who had come from Virginia and Maryland alone, and which cases are by the sanitary officer's records classed as "afflicted with incurable diseases." These people have come into the District and were sent to District hospitals. In all, 333, which is more than one for every working day in the year.

Mr. NORTHWAY. And the expense paid for by the Federal Government?

Mr. WILSON. Partially so and partially not. Some of these institutions are supported by the Government-some receiving appropriations in the sundry civil bill, and some in the District appropriation bill.

Mr. PITNEY. If these appropriations are to be continued do you think the amount appropriated should be divided equally between the Federal Government and the District?

Mr. WILSON. I do not know as to that. I would say that if this board is organized there ought to be some central body having authority it should have supervision over all these institutions. I do not care to argue as to whether half ought to come out of the Federal Treasury and half out of the District treasury. As a general principle, public money should be devoted to public institutions managed by public officers.

Mr. PITNEY. Do you think the money ought to be given in part from the District treasury?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir; I do not know whether it should be 50 per cent each or not; but the same percentage should be maintained throughout.

Mr. PITNEY. Do you know anything about the work of the Humane Society in its childcaring work?

Mr. WILSON. A little. I have come in contact with its agents from time to time, but have no intimate connection with its work in detail. Mr. PITNEY. Not sufficient information to make a statement upon? Mr. WILSON. I would be willing to make a statement to be considered in connection with childcaring work in general.

Mr. PITNEY. Do you find that the work of the Humane Society duplicates that of the Board of Children's Guardians?

Mr. WILSON. The cases that have come to our knowledge of children we have always referred to the Board of Children's Guardians, because that is a body entirely capable of taking charge of the work. I think that in a document submitted by Chairman McMillan last year this subject is taken up quite fully, and contains some correspondence with the Board of Children's Guardians and the Humane Society. I think it was stated in that document that there is not now reason for the two societies.

Mr. PITNEY. Does the fact that a child shall be put through a process of law before he can receive care through the Board of Children's Guardians prevent children or the parents of children from applying?

Mr. WILSON. No, sir; the bringing up of a child is one of the most serious problems to deal with, and I think the public guardianship should go with public support If the child is a ward of the State, the State ought to have the right to say that it shall be brought up in a proper way.

Mr. NORTHWAY. Are they able to take care of all the cases as they come?

Mr. WILSON. So far as their appropriations enable them to do so. Mr. PITNEY. Is there any system here as to adults?

Mr. WILSON. No, sir; and that is one of the most important recommendations that ought to be made. There is no law which determines who is a dependent, and there is no law determining the time of residence. We have made a rule of a year's residence.

Mr. PITNEY. That is to say, there is no court or jurisdiction clothed with the power of saying who is sufficiently settled in the district to be entitled to public relief?

Mr. WILSON. No, sir; there is not.

Mr. PITNEY. Suppose that should be supplied, is there any necessity for an adjudication by a judicial tribunal as to a person's title to relief? Mr. WILSON. I think if a law was enacted providing that a certain. period of residence in the District entitled a person to relief, that the board of charities could properly pass upon cases coming under this law. Boards of directors of county infirmaries have the power to pass upon the degree of dependence, and I do not think it would be necessary to take it into court.

Mr. PITNEY. We have a law in New Jersey which provides for an adjudication as to whether a child shall or shall not be made a public ward.

Mr. WILSON. The adult is seeking support and perfectly willing to receive it. On the other hand, it is frequently necessary to invoke the power of the court to get control of the child.

Mr. PITNEY. The infant is helpless.

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir. In many States they have a law providing that if the parents surrender a child to the directors of the county home, duly surrender and sign the papers in the presence of a notary, it shall not be necessary to have a trial.

I would like to call attention to the fact that some of these institutions in their reports for the last three years show several thousand

dollars of expenditures in excess of receipts. There is no deficit carried over to the next year; and on this statement they base an argument for increased appropriations.

Mr. PITNEY. Does that appear in a report to Congress?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir; in the report of the superintendent of charities. Mr. PITNEY. Please refer to the printed pages.

Mr. WILSON. Page 191 and page 228. Here on page 228 of the report for 1895 it states that "our expenditures each year far exceed our receipts." You will find that running through three or four years. There may be some explanation of it.

Mr. MCMILLAN. That is a little curious.

Mr. WILSON. To my mind the fundamental thing that causes this sort of condition is the appropriation of public money for private organizations, which encourages these institutions to admit persons freely to their "homes" in order to show that they have large numbers, and thus secure increased appropriations. There is no public authority now to pass upon such admissions. If we had a public organization, managed by public officers, it would be their aim to decrease rather than increase the number of public dependents. I only say that these reports are peculiar on their face.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Well, if there is nothing further, this hearing will be closed.

Thereupon (at 4 o'clock p. m.) the committee adjourned.

SECOND HEARING.

REFORMATORY INSTITUTIONS.

APRIL 8, 1897-2 o'clock p. m. Present: Hon. C. J. Faulkner, presiding; Hon. Thomas S. Martin, Hon. Mahlon Pitney, and Hon. S. A. Northway.

Senator FAULKNER. Gentlemen, the meeting will please come to order. The first topic before the committee has reference to reformatory institutions. To be heard: The officers of the Reform School for Boys and the officers of the Reform School for Girls. We will take up the subject in the order the topics are suggested in the printed schedule. I suppose it is understood by the gentlemen who are to appear before the committee that we want as brief a statement as they feel they can give and do justice to the subject. Who is present representing the Reform School for Boys?

THE REFORM SCHOOL FOR BOYS.

Mr. CECIL CLAY. I am president of the board of trustees of the Reform School for Boys. A majority of the board are here; the superintendent of the school, and the secretary and treasurer. I presume what the committee wants, Mr. Chairman, is a reply to each of the enumerated topics as given in this printed schedule?

Senator FAULKNER. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLAY. Before I proceed, I would say that I have prepared what may be of service to the committee, a brief memorandum of replies to these several topics, which can be amplified by any questions that the committee would like to put. Do you desire an oral statement as to each topic?

Senator FAULKNER. If your written statement embraces your answer it will not be necessary.

Mr. CLAY. I can put this memorandum of replies in after I have read it. If anyone desires to ask any questions I will be glad to answer them. The first topic is in relation to the work of the Reform School and needs of the institution. The simple, broad answer to what is the work of the Reform School is the reformation of its inmates. If anything is desired as to the scope of that reformation of inmates it can be given. Boys who are sent there are boys who have primarily committed some misdemeanor or minor offense which brings them within the scope of the courts of the District of Columbia or United States courts outside, and who are too young to be put in the penitentiary, and so are put in the Reform School.